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starting to workout, need help for the top tiers.

Gixxerkid66

ChadtheDad412
Carbs are evil.

protein protein protein and more protein


High volume short rest workouts with weights. Keep that heart rate up!

And don't expect miracles! Work ur ass off and u will get what u are looking for.
 

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
@Decay II , @flipkev

Alright seems like we got a knowledgeable bunch here so I could definitely use some advice. Former athlete and I'm just getting back into a routine after an injury (knee / ACL) and several years of inactivity.

Stats: Age: 33
Height: 5'9
Weight: 200 lbs
Body fat% : ~20%

Body type: Honestly I'm not sure. I always had problems putting on weight and hovered around 160 - 165 lbs / 13 - 15 % body fat. I used to lift / run a lot in my teens and 20's until an ACL injury put me out of commish for a while at 27.

Goal: Increase % muscle mass while reducing % body fat. I want to try and bulk eventually but I wanted to get some strength / muscle back before attempting that since I'm coming off pretty much stopping all together for a few years.


Routine :
  1. M - Lifting Chest/Back - 5-10 min interval cardio on treadmill/eliptical. 2 exercises per body part, 1 compound 1 iso (1x8 / 1x6 pyramid sets per each exercise with enough weight to go to failure. Increasing weight each week)
  2. T - Swimming / Rest
  3. W - Lifting Shoulders / Triceps - 5-10 min interval cardio on treadmill/eliptical. 2 exercises per body part, 1 compound 1 iso (1x8 / 1x6 pyramid sets per each exercise going to failure)
  4. R - Swimming / Rest
  5. F - Biceps / Legs - 2 exercises per body part, 1 compound 1 iso (1x8 / 1x6 pyramid sets per each exercise going to failure).
Diet:

I haven't been counting calories but I've been using info from the AbsDiet in cutting out "dirty" stuff, eating 5 small meals throughout the day, making sure I'm getting lots of Protein through 1lb chicken breast, frozen stir fry veggies, turkey deli meat, eggs, almonds, protein shakes, light greek yogurt, banannas, natural unsweetened peanut butter, whole wheat bread, and protein shake.

So any help from you guys would definitely be appreciated. Especially in the diet department ( I love to eat). To organize the questions and make it easier for feedback.

Questions:
  • How does the weight routine look? I'm coming fresh off of prolonged inactivity and I didn't want to risk injury (currently on week 4 but been slacking on cardio days).
  • How should the weight routine evolve? (sets/reps/months/weeks)
  • Ideas / advice on fine tuning my diet? Basically my way to keep myself honest is to only buy clean foods so I'm not tempted to cheat.
  • Any free software / apps that can help me track stuff like routine progress and diet?
Any and all feedback is helpful. Thanks guys.
 
Last edited:

aj1701

Warrior
You can definitely lean out by doing those exercises. If leaning out is the goal, then cardio is the best option
Cardio without weight training will cost a lot of muscle though. Cardio after lifting makes the best use of cardio minutes.
 
@Decay II , @flipkev

Alright seems like we got a knowledgeable bunch here so I could definitely use some advice. Former athlete and I'm just getting back into a routine after an injury (knee / ACL) and several years of inactivity.

Stats: Age: 33
Height: 5'9
Weight: 200 lbs
Body fat% : ~20%

Body type: Honestly I'm not sure. I always had problems putting on weight and hovered around 160 - 165 lbs / 13 - 15 % body fat. I used to lift / run a lot in my teens and 20's until an ACL injury put me out of commish for a while at 27.

Goal: Increase % muscle mass while reducing % body fat. I want to try and bulk eventually but I wanted to get some strength / muscle back before attempting that since I'm coming off pretty much stopping all together for a few years.


Routine :
  1. M - Lifting Chest/Back - 5-10 min interval cardio on treadmill/eliptical. 2 exercises per body part, 1 compound 1 iso (1x8 / 1x6 pyramid sets per each exercise with enough weight to go to failure. Increasing weight each week)
  2. T - Swimming / Rest
  3. W - Lifting Shoulders / Triceps - 5-10 min interval cardio on treadmill/eliptical. 2 exercises per body part, 1 compound 1 iso (1x8 / 1x6 pyramid sets per each exercise going to failure)
  4. R - Swimming / Rest
  5. F - Biceps / Legs - 2 exercises per body part, 1 compound 1 iso (1x8 / 1x6 pyramid sets per each exercise going to failure).
Diet:

I haven't been counting calories but I've been using info from the AbsDiet in cutting out "dirty" stuff, eating 5 small meals throughout the day, making sure I'm getting lots of Protein through 1lb chicken breast, frozen stir fry veggies, turkey deli meat, eggs, almonds, protein shakes, light greek yogurt, banannas, natural unsweetened peanut butter, whole wheat bread, and protein shake.

So any help from you guys would definitely be appreciated. Especially in the diet department ( I love to eat). To organize the questions and make it easier for feedback.

Questions:
  • How does the weight routine look? I'm coming fresh off of prolonged inactivity and I didn't want to risk injury (currently on week 4 but been slacking on cardio days).
  • How should the weight routine evolve? (sets/reps/months/weeks)
  • Ideas / advice on fine tuning my diet? Basically my way to keep myself honest is to only buy clean foods so I'm not tempted to cheat.
  • Any free software / apps that can help me track stuff like routine progress and diet?
Any and all feedback is helpful. Thanks guys.

You seem to be starting on a good track, how long have you been at this?

-routine looks good, i know that everyone has their own way that works. I'd say try throwing a third exercise in instead of two. remembering to keep good form with a challenging weight. Glad you threw in compounds. STRENGTHEN THAT CORE
-and if you want to change your weight routine as you progress, like state before 'muscle and strength' and bodybuilding.com both have good reads where you can incorporate what you like and make a workout that suits you.
-Diet wise, for me, I usually go at it for a month and if i see change ill keep it up, if i dont, ill try to figure out what to change. when i got back into lifting, i was going back into it weak, and bad ankles, sprained both 2 times each. I weighed 215lb at the start dropped to 200lb, not im at 192-195lb. lost fat and gained muscle. and im sitting at 17% -ish bodyfat. at a staggering 5 foot 6. your diet seems to be clean that you should notice a difference, and just adjust when necessary
- MyFitnessPal has a great tracker for meals and a huge database of food for counting calories

***OH. another thing. if you can make friends at the gym with someone that knows their stuff. you'd be surprise the things i've learned from some of them.
 

The Farmer

Gunslinger since pre ptch -Shout out 2 Youphs 2015
My two cents. Big mistake some people make: Doing cardio with weight training. try and make sure your cardio and weight training have at least 8 hour gap between them. Counter productive to do them in the same sesssion.
 

EnergyKD

AKA KHAOTIC Zeus
I do the 5x5 Ice Cream Fitness workout, this is my routine:

The program is to be conducted 3 days per week alternating workout A&B on non-consecutive days. For example:

Week One

  • Day 1 - Workout A
  • Day 2 - Rest
  • Day 3 - Workout B
  • Day 4 - Rest
  • Day 5 - Workout A
  • Days 6 & 7 - Rest
Week Two

  • Day 1 - Workout B
  • Day 2 - Rest
  • Day 3 - Workout A
  • Day 4 - Rest
  • Day 5 - Workout B
  • Days 6 & 7 - Rest
Workout A
Squats
Bench Press
Bent Over Row
Barbell Shrugs
Tricep Extensions
Straight Bar or Incline Curls
Hyperextensions with plate
Cable Crunches

Workout B
Squats
Deadlift
Standing Press
Bent Over Row (10% lighter than Workout A)
Close Grip Bench Press
Straight Bar or Incline Curls
Cable Crunches
 

Decay

King of the Bill
@Decay II , @flipkev

Alright seems like we got a knowledgeable bunch here so I could definitely use some advice. Former athlete and I'm just getting back into a routine after an injury (knee / ACL) and several years of inactivity.

Stats: Age: 33
Height: 5'9
Weight: 200 lbs
Body fat% : ~20%

Body type: Honestly I'm not sure. I always had problems putting on weight and hovered around 160 - 165 lbs / 13 - 15 % body fat. I used to lift / run a lot in my teens and 20's until an ACL injury put me out of commish for a while at 27.

Goal: Increase % muscle mass while reducing % body fat. I want to try and bulk eventually but I wanted to get some strength / muscle back before attempting that since I'm coming off pretty much stopping all together for a few years.


Routine :
  1. M - Lifting Chest/Back - 5-10 min interval cardio on treadmill/eliptical. 2 exercises per body part, 1 compound 1 iso (1x8 / 1x6 pyramid sets per each exercise with enough weight to go to failure. Increasing weight each week)
  2. T - Swimming / Rest
  3. W - Lifting Shoulders / Triceps - 5-10 min interval cardio on treadmill/eliptical. 2 exercises per body part, 1 compound 1 iso (1x8 / 1x6 pyramid sets per each exercise going to failure)
  4. R - Swimming / Rest
  5. F - Biceps / Legs - 2 exercises per body part, 1 compound 1 iso (1x8 / 1x6 pyramid sets per each exercise going to failure).
Diet:

I haven't been counting calories but I've been using info from the AbsDiet in cutting out "dirty" stuff, eating 5 small meals throughout the day, making sure I'm getting lots of Protein through 1lb chicken breast, frozen stir fry veggies, turkey deli meat, eggs, almonds, protein shakes, light greek yogurt, banannas, natural unsweetened peanut butter, whole wheat bread, and protein shake.

So any help from you guys would definitely be appreciated. Especially in the diet department ( I love to eat). To organize the questions and make it easier for feedback.

Questions:
  • How does the weight routine look? I'm coming fresh off of prolonged inactivity and I didn't want to risk injury (currently on week 4 but been slacking on cardio days).
  • How should the weight routine evolve? (sets/reps/months/weeks)
  • Ideas / advice on fine tuning my diet? Basically my way to keep myself honest is to only buy clean foods so I'm not tempted to cheat.
  • Any free software / apps that can help me track stuff like routine progress and diet?
Any and all feedback is helpful. Thanks guys.
Hey man glad you're back on track, sucks about the injury. I would say you have a good grasp already on what you should and shouldn't be eating, but sticking true to your diet will be the key. I really like white fish like tilapia for cutting down, and you might wanna get into some oat meal and sweet potatoes.

As far as the exercise goes, there isn't much volume, but I know it's an introduction back into the gym so for now it's going to suffice, although as your body adapts to it, you'll need to focus more on breaking down the muscle further by doing more sets and varied exercises. When you feel like you're at that point maybe I can help you with an intermediate routine. Keep up the good work dude
 

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
Thank. I'm currently only on Week 4 so I'll probably add an exercise for each body part in Sept. Honestly I've been sneaking in extra iso exercises for body parts (Chest/Shoulders/Legs) because I feel like I'm slacking. So yesterday for example was:

Chest -
  • 2x2 Barbell Bench
  • 2x2 Incline barbell bench
  • 2x2 Cable crossovers
Back -
  • 2x2 T-bar rows
  • 2x2 Dumbell rows
  • 2x2 back extensions
@GentlePersuation , I agree with you about the cardio but what's been happening is that I've been skipping altogether on the cardio days (Tue / Thur) so when I'm supposed to be doing 5-15 min warm up cardio on lifting days I'm like "fuck man I need to up the intensity since I missed cardio yesterday."

It hasn't been a perfect 4 weeks but I've at least been sticking to the diet during the week (Sat/Sun have been a problem), and getting at least 3 days of weight training in. September is going to go much better since I'm starting to get into the swing of things.

Thanks for the feedback though guys.
 

Decay

King of the Bill
Cardio without weight training will cost a lot of muscle though. Cardio after lifting makes the best use of cardio minutes.
It's a fallacy to think cardio makes you lose muscle mass. There's no scientific proof that it occurs. Also, there's different types of cardio, but just long distance running. Hiit cardio that involves sprinting will get you lean and build muscle well too, just look at the physique of a sprinter. I'm saying that bringing your heart rate up will help burn fat if fat loss is your goal. If bulking up is your goal, then you don't care so much about how slim your waistline is and you won't focus on the cardio aspect.
 

Decay

King of the Bill
My two cents. Big mistake some people make: Doing cardio with weight training. try and make sure your cardio and weight training have at least 8 hour gap between them. Counter productive to do them in the same sesssion.
Would you mind elaborating on that? I don't understand why it would be counter productive. If anything, cardio after a weight session is the most productive because your body is more willing to burn fat after the heart rate has been elevated for a while (the weight training). So if your goal is to get stronger and build muscle and also lower your bodyfat, then doing cardio after the weight training is not a bad idea at all
 
It's a fallacy to think cardio makes you lose muscle mass. There's no scientific proof that it occurs. Also, there's different types of cardio, but just long distance running. Hiit cardio that involves sprinting will get you lean and build muscle well too, just look at the physique of a sprinter. I'm saying that bringing your heart rate up will help burn fat if fat loss is your goal. If bulking up is your goal, then you don't care so much about how slim your waistline is and you won't focus on the cardio aspect.
I just do 10min of cardio after workout at 4.0 - 5.0 speed to increase appetite cuz I'm bulking, idk why people think it makes you lose muscle mass, you'll lose if you don't eat enough and you're at a deficit. I don't know if that's considered high intensity though, I'm still learning each day about fitness as well. Sorta had to because I got diagnosed with Chrons Disease and I guess it became a life style for me instead of a chore.

I personally think people fail with their goals is because of their diet, and it's my downfall too. I get lazy and I don't wake up enough early so I can fit in my 2500-3000 cals in and so I don't gain. I think most consumers are brainwashed thinking supplements are magic, I have a friend who doesn't trust what I say because I'm not hella ripped and he thinks creatine will just help him get jacked and I'm like, it'll help you with doing more intense workouts, it's not magic, so I gave up.

What would you suggest is a good target weight for 5'4-5'5? I'm 126 lean but, my goal is 135-140.

I always compare explaining fitness to general population is like explaining frame data to casuals. You either want to improve properly or you don't.
 
Haha, so many "experts".

There are many ways to skin a cat, but abs are made in the kitchen.

Take whatever advice you want workout wise and go ahead and experiment with different diets. Everybody is different, treat your body like a laboratory and figure out what works for you. It can be Intermittent fasting, carb backloading, low carb high protien, paleo, whatever. Ideally you don't want to make a diet change you want to make a lifestyle change so try to set small goals. There is typically one universal truth with the majority of diets and that's cut sugar out. Stop drinking soda, don't load your coffee with sugar, stop eating candy, etc. And there are a lot of studies that despite sugar substitutes not technically being sugar the brain still sees them as a sweetener and still triggers an insulin response.

Goodluck.
 

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
Hey man glad you're back on track, sucks about the injury. I would say you have a good grasp already on what you should and shouldn't be eating, but sticking true to your diet will be the key. I really like white fish like tilapia for cutting down, and you might wanna get into some oat meal and sweet potatoes.
So true. And the fish sounds awesome but, I'm on a bit of a budget so I just settled for a few bags of chicken breast. Thanks for the sweet potato idea though, I was trying to avoid starchy stuff but I forgot about sweet potato.

As far as the exercise goes, there isn't much volume, but I know it's an introduction back into the gym so for now it's going to suffice, although as your body adapts to it, you'll need to focus more on breaking down the muscle further by doing more sets and varied exercises. When you feel like you're at that point maybe I can help you with an intermediate routine. Keep up the good work dude
I know and it's killing me to stick to 2x2 right now lol. I tend to get caught up and try and push myself too hard though and I'm really making a conscious effort to avoid that right now. That being said though, what's a good benchmark to start trying to increase volume? As far as exercise variations go I do try and switch it up each week for each body part ex:

Last Monday:

Chest:
  • 2x2 dumbell bench press
  • 2x2 incline dumbell press
  • 2x2 dips
Back:
  • 2x2 seated rows
  • 2x2 lat pulldowns
This week:

Chest -
  • 2x2 Barbell Bench
  • 2x2 Incline barbell bench
  • 2x2 Cable crossovers
Back -
  • 2x2 T-bar rows
  • 2x2 Dumbell rows
  • 2x2 back extensions
 
I just do 10min of cardio after workout at 4.0 - 5.0 speed to increase appetite cuz I'm bulking, idk why people think it makes you lose muscle mass, you'll lose if you don't eat enough and you're at a deficit.

I personally think people fail with their goals is because of their diet, and it's my downfall too. I get lazy and I don't wake up enough early so I can fit in my 2500-3000 cals in and so I don't gain. I think most consumers are brainwashed thinking supplements are magic, I have a friend who doesn't trust what I say because I'm not hella ripped and he thinks creatine will just help him get jacked and I'm like, it'll help you with doing more intense workouts, it's not magic, so I gave up.

What would you suggest is a good target weight for 5'4-5'5? I'm 126 lean but, my goal is 135-140.

I always compare explaining fitness to general population is like explaining frame data to casuals. You either want to improve properly or you don't.
I think weight is a really shitty metric. But if you want to go that way BMI charts say 5'5' should be between 120-140. Honestly if you want a metric your best bet is to go by body fat percentage and even then your results will vary based on the tool you use. As a trainer I always recommend to athletes to take pictures of themselves and monitor their progress that way. The scale is junk, if you're building muscle and burning fat at the same time there's a good chance that the scale isn't going to drop like you hoped it would.

So take pictures of yourself and write down the results of your workouts. How much did you lift, how long did it take you to run x distance, etc. Use those as baselines for your progress. Throw the scale out the window.
 

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
I just do 10min of cardio after workout at 4.0 - 5.0 speed to increase appetite cuz I'm bulking, idk why people think it makes you lose muscle mass, you'll lose if you don't eat enough and you're at a deficit. I don't know if that's considered high intensity though, I'm still learning each day about fitness as well. Sorta had to because I got diagnosed with Chrons Disease and I guess it became a life style for me instead of a chore.

I personally think people fail with their goals is because of their diet, and it's my downfall too. I get lazy and I don't wake up enough early so I can fit in my 2500-3000 cals in and so I don't gain. I think most consumers are brainwashed thinking supplements are magic, I have a friend who doesn't trust what I say because I'm not hella ripped and he thinks creatine will just help him get jacked and I'm like, it'll help you with doing more intense workouts, it's not magic, so I gave up.

What would you suggest is a good target weight for 5'4-5'5? I'm 126 lean but, my goal is 135-140.

I always compare explaining fitness to general population is like explaining frame data to casuals. You either want to improve properly or you don't.
Cardio intensity is usually in terms of your heart rate. There's a range for your target heart rate and if you're pushing towards the upper end then you'll definitely know it. If you're using cardio machines it'll even give you your heart rate during the exercise.

Here's a chart:

 
Cardio intensity is usually in terms of your heart rate. There's a range for your target heart rate and if you're pushing towards the upper end then you'll definitely know it. If you're using cardio machines it'll even give you your heart rate during the exercise.

Here's a chart:

My cardio mainly consists of intervals on the treadmill, swimming, or jump rope. 15-20min max.

on occasion ill go for a long run. but granted ive done a couple 5ks and coming out of it feeling great. granted its only 3 miles, but its something i wasnt really able to do before!
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
I think weight is a really shitty metric. But if you want to go that way BMI charts say 5'5' should be between 120-140. Honestly if you want a metric your best bet is to go by body fat percentage and even then your results will vary based on the tool you use. As a trainer I always recommend to athletes to take pictures of themselves and monitor their progress that way. The scale is junk, if you're building muscle and burning fat at the same time there's a good chance that the scale isn't going to drop like you hoped it would.

So take pictures of yourself and write down the results of your workouts. How much did you lift, how long did it take you to run x distance, etc. Use those as baselines for your progress. Throw the scale out the window.
Oh yeah I already do that, been tracking forever, try to increase 5 pounds each week and 10 on heavy movements DL/Squat. My DL is at 175 for 3x5 aiming 185 next week, pretty good for my size IMO.

Pics wise yeah, I think I look okay, sorta like slim swole.
 
Was coming in here to say this. Most Americans eat more protein then they need in their regular diet, using a protein shake is just going to reverse all the weight loss because all the excess protein will be stored as fat. If you want to know more check this link.

http://military-fitness.military.com/2011/01/do-you-really-need-that-protein-shake.html
Excess just gets converted to carbs. I think protein shake is good, I use it often because of my circumstances but anything in excess will be stored as fat. Just lessen carb intake if you eating lotta shakes would be my best advice.
 
Cardio intensity is usually in terms of your heart rate. There's a range for your target heart rate and if you're pushing towards the upper end then you'll definitely know it. If you're using cardio machines it'll even give you your heart rate during the exercise.

Here's a chart:

Hmm I'll see how I can track it, I don't have a monitor, I'll do cardio tomorrow and report back.
 

Saboteur-6

Filthy Casual
Hmm I'll see how I can track it, I don't have a monitor, I'll do cardio tomorrow and report back.
I'm old school so I'm used to checking by just taking my pulse at my neck, counting each beat for 10 seconds (use any clock) , and then multiply by 6.
 
Excess just gets converted to carbs. I think protein shake is good, I use it often because of my circumstances but anything in excess will be stored as fat. Just lessen carb intake if you eating lotta shakes would be my best advice.
I'd like to add that, depending on your metabolism and your work out, if your body can metabolize it and not store, most likely with someone who is more advanced in training would benefit from it than someone just beginning. So icksnay the protein at first, see how your body develops and judge from there if you want to or not. Variation in training is a factor. Protein shakes can benefit muscle recovery prior to actually being stored, especially taken at the right time. I dont take protein for no reason at any given time of the day, that would be excess. Whatever is done in recovery has just as much of a impact as being in the gym.

AND if you are watching your macros correctly, your body should be metabolizing the carbs/protein you do eat, and when those are depleted, it will target the stored fat and convert that to energy which can occur mostly during recovery as well. Hence the fat loss. ( i guess you can see this to a greater effect in people who fast, insulin sensitivity increases) If any of this sounds like mumbo jumbo, feel free to use google lol.
 
Last edited:

The Farmer

Gunslinger since pre ptch -Shout out 2 Youphs 2015
Would you mind elaborating on that? I don't understand why it would be counter productive. If anything, cardio after a weight session is the most productive because your body is more willing to burn fat after the heart rate has been elevated for a while (the weight training). So if your goal is to get stronger and build muscle and also lower your bodyfat, then doing cardio after the weight training is not a bad idea at all
Maybe I should have been more specific. Do not do long cardio sets after a strength or weight training set. 10-15 minutes is fine. But doing a long cardio specific set of intervals running or heavy burning cardio for 30-45 minutes drags you further into a catabolic state depleting the time needed for glycogen and muscle protein synthesis to recharge. You may as well keep the muscle and strength gains you achieved then lose them just to burn more fat. Let the body recharge and do a heavy cardio session later in the day after you've recouped your strength.
 

The Farmer

Gunslinger since pre ptch -Shout out 2 Youphs 2015
Thank. I'm currently only on Week 4 so I'll probably add an exercise for each body part in Sept. Honestly I've been sneaking in extra iso exercises for body parts (Chest/Shoulders/Legs) because I feel like I'm slacking. So yesterday for example was:

Chest -
  • 2x2 Barbell Bench
  • 2x2 Incline barbell bench
  • 2x2 Cable crossovers
Back -
  • 2x2 T-bar rows
  • 2x2 Dumbell rows
  • 2x2 back extensions
@GentlePersuation , I agree with you about the cardio but what's been happening is that I've been skipping altogether on the cardio days (Tue / Thur) so when I'm supposed to be doing 5-15 min warm up cardio on lifting days I'm like "fuck man I need to up the intensity since I missed cardio yesterday."

It hasn't been a perfect 4 weeks but I've at least been sticking to the diet during the week (Sat/Sun have been a problem), and getting at least 3 days of weight training in. September is going to go much better since I'm starting to get into the swing of things.

Thanks for the feedback though guys.
Your cardio is just as important as the weight training. If you miss a day I would recommend doing some moderate cardio after your strength session like Decay II advised. You will not lose any gains if its a moderate session say 15minutes. But keep the heavy cardio away from strength training, 30 minutes or more of semi intense cardio. I would NOT do any make up cardio of an intense nature just before lifting. 10 minute warm up is perfectly fine to get the blood pumping and circulating nutrients. I usually warm up on an airdyne bike for 10 minutes before weight training. If I do any cardio after I will do 15 minutes of intervals to circulate the blood more and then call it a session. I weight train 3 days a week and do heavy cardio 5 days a week away from lifting. My cardio consists of Airdyne, interval running, boxing and jiu-jitzu. Cardio comes in all shapes and forms, if running is hard for you to get motivated for (which it is for many, lets face it, it can be boring) try some other forms like taking a martial art (if you interested in anything like that). Or try an airdyne bike, tread-climber, etc.