Block Button Vs B2B. Why does it bother you?

[VenomX-90]

When a high level skilled player gets beaten by a new comer and they expect us to side with them b/c they used cheap tactics

But

 

[Rampage254]

When a high level skilled player gets beaten by a new comer and they expect us to side with them b/c they used cheap tactics

But

Wut?

 

[VenomX-90]

Wut?

http://testyourmight.com/threads/butthatsnoneofmybusiness.44333/page-2#post-1410622

 

[Rampage254]

http://testyourmight.com/threads/butthatsnoneofmybusiness.44333/page-2#post-1410622

I understand the noneofmybusiness thing, but when has a top player even expected us to side with them when they lost to "cheap" tactics?

 

[VenomX-90]

I understand the noneofmybusiness thing, but when has a top player even expected us to side with them when they lost to "cheap" tactics?

You know how ppl rant and stuff whhen they lose and then make a thread about that loss and hen complain about it, and some ppl want us to agree with them? I see it all the time...

 

[Qwark28]

Peronally, I find it easier to interrupt strings when the game has a block button. I find it a lot more comfortable to release a button on reaction, ready to interrupt, rather than changing which direction I'm moving.

Dealing with Kabal Gas Blasts/Dash cancelling for example, would be a lot hard to deal with in Injustice. Just look at how hard it was to defend against Cyborgs instant air blasts when they hit crouching opponents.

But you didn't react to staggers in MK9, you read and poked out of them with a D+x or a string.

And how do you have to change directions to interrupt stuff? B2B in both IGAU and SF means that if there are enough frames for your normal to become active then it comes out if you're pressing it regardless of holding down, you can mash d1 while blocking and if there's a gap you'll poke out of it, I exploit that mechanic all the time when pressured or pressuring, e.g jumping with a string that leaves time for d1 to try to startup but tight enough to catch it as a counterhit = J2 into 32 with Joker.

 

[WakeUp DP]

Firstly, I'm on PSN so if you have a ps3 shoot me your username.

Secondly, if we do play it won't be until after the weekend because I have 3 summer exams I need to prepare for and intend to devote the weekend entirely to studying for those.

I dont even think you go to school but











Thats none of my business.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

But you didn't react to staggers in MK9, you read and poked out of them with a D+x or a string.

And how do you have to change directions to interrupt stuff? B2B in both IGAU and SF means that if there are enough frames for your normal to become active then it comes out if you're pressing it regardless of holding down, you can mash d1 while blocking and if there's a gap you'll poke out of it, I exploit that mechanic all the time when pressured or pressuring, e.g jumping with a string that leaves time for d1 to try to startup but tight enough to catch it as a counterhit = J2 into 32 with Joker.

You're Joker, you're supposed to mash D1

 

[Art]

Strictly a pros vs. cons on that as far as having the BLOCK button...
PRO:
Can block teleports easily.
Can dash block effectively.
Negates Cross-Ups.
CON:
No Cross-Up potential in the game.
Not your typical fighting game, when most are B2B. Making it harder for most to adapt.
Makes for an awkward button lay-out.

At least this is how I see it... It's a matter of preference IMHO.

 

[ShadowBeatz]

PRO:
Negates Cross-Ups.
CON:
No Cross-Up potential in the game.

I see

 

[cyke_out]

I come from a 3d background, mainly soul calibur, virtual fighter and tekken. The first two use a block button and the last uses back to block and none if them give a damn about cross ups.

The main difference between them is how easy movement is in SC and VF compared to TK. In TK, there are several different movement tricks that are required to force a whiff or to cancel a dash or step into a block, in VF or SC you just hit the block button during a much more intuitive style of movement.

This removes an execution barrier for play and I'm all about limiting needless difficult executions requirement when applicable.

 

[ReD WolF]

You don't have to agree, and I probably can't convince you. In case you missed the title of this thread, it wasn't "Staunchly Defend Your Preference for Blocking Mechanics!" Yes, I've played many iterations of SF over the years. I understand the history and usage of directional blocking mechanics, and how guard, movement and footsies have developed around it (specifically regarding SF II-3rd Strike). However, I feel that it was and is an inferior system, and have preferred a dedicated button for blocking. Next time, Wolf, don't be a douche about it.

You are correct you can't convince me. The only thing douchy in this thread was your post passing off the "inferiority" of b2b as fact. When in FACT, it's just your opinion. It's not flawed lol that's absurd. It sounds more like you have Pringles defense. To each his own though, you don't have to like it, just know it is the gold standard for fighting games for a reason. And btw, I don't mind a block button

 

[NY-Shadow]

B2B is dumb. It forces the gameplay to stear towards a more defensive type of playing that only amplifies with projectile spamming characters. B2B also allows for that flawed crossup tech that some players use to basically nullify the time an opponent character is suppose to be able to block but is unable to because of an anti directional shift that defies the blocking system's directionality, because the developers did not have that in mind when they created the game nor did they imagine a move like that would be so exploited to the point of having some people actually naming the flawed exploit as "crossup tech".

The Block button eliminates that type of B2B exploited programming flaw and discourages the walk-away and back-dash itch that comes with B2B systems.

 

[haketh]

B2B is dumb. It forces the gameplay to stear towards a more defensive type of playing that only amplifies with projectile spamming characters. B2B also allows for that flawed crossup tech that some players use to basically nullify the time an opponent character is suppose to be able to block but is unable to because of an anti directional shift that defies the blocking system's directionality, because the developers did not have that in mind when they created the game nor did they imagine a move like that would be so exploited to the point of having some people actually naming the flawed exploit as "crossup tech".

The Block button eliminates that type of B2B exploited programming flaw and discourages the walk-away and back-dash itch that comes with B2B systems.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Back to block and block button are both good in different ways.

It's like trying to argue if 3d or 2d fighters are better. They're just different.

 

[Cossner]

I'm reading some of these posts saying b2b is great because cross ups. Posts made by the same people who bitch and moan about Superman corner game.

Make up your mind guys.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

B2B is dumb. It forces the gameplay to stear towards a more defensive type of playing that only amplifies with projectile spamming characters. B2B also allows for that flawed crossup tech that some players use to basically nullify the time an opponent character is suppose to be able to block but is unable to because of an anti directional shift that defies the blocking system's directionality, because the developers did not have that in mind when they created the game nor did they imagine a move like that would be so exploited to the point of having some people actually naming the flawed exploit as "crossup tech".

The Block button eliminates that type of B2B exploited programming flaw and discourages the walk-away and back-dash itch that comes with B2B systems.

And then you wonder why so many people look down on MK players... Thank you for giving capcom guys infinite ammo lol.

FYI there's 10x more spamming in MK9 than Injustice so b2b encouraging spamming is lol. Not that there's anything wrong with zoning to begin with... I think what you're trying to say is that it's easier to get around zoning in MK9 because you can simply dash block or dash d1. And in b2b games you have to be more patient about it.

Also lol @ the notion that developers didn't think that cross-ups could possibly be ambiguous and hard to block.. I'm pretty sure that was the intent. Some characters rely on zoning, others on footsies, others on frametraps/throws, and others rely on ambiguous cross-ups to open people up because they have no comboable overhead and no strong techtrap tools. The safe jumps/cross-ups are also there to reward you for successfully getting hard knockdown.

It baffles me that some people can't understand this concept of being rewarded with a mixup opportunity for whiff punishing in footsies. Without this reward there would be no way to maintain serious momentum after a KD in a game like SF and nothing to stop charge characters from turtling. Remember normals do zero chip in SF.

It's just different. One system is not better than the other.

 

[Error]

Back to block and block button are both good in different ways.

It's like trying to argue if 3d or 2d fighters are better. They're just different.

2d's better though

 

[Peckapowa]

i think dash cancelling could be done with a move different than block, like for example, switch stance.

switch stance, could be used to implement new mechanics in a game...

switch stance................

 

[Vulcan Hades]

i think dash cancelling could be done with a move different than block, like for example, switch stance.

switch stance, could be used to implement new mechanics in a game...

switch stance................

I remember in one of the early MK9 interviews they said Stances were supposed to play a big role and be an important mechanic but they didn't have enough time to implement it so they had to abort the idea.

I'm starting to think stance switching was supposed to be for changing variations mid fight. Kind of like Nightwing's and Wonder Woman's traits. But for balancing purposes they decided to make it so you can only change variations at the character select screen in MKX. Probably for the best. Though a Variation Trait with 10 sec cooldown would've been interesting too.

 

[Peckapowa]

well i mean stance switch could be a different button altogether, like it could be used to alter specials in specific ways that aren't meter dependent, and could be used to cancel out of dashes....

 

[Gideon_Grey]

..

well i mean stance switch could be a different button altogether, like it could be used to alter specials in specific ways that aren't meter dependent, and could be used to cancel out of dashes....

...and every character should totally say "SWITCH STANCE!" each time they do.

 

[haketh]

i think dash cancelling could be done with a move different than block, like for example, switch stance.

switch stance, could be used to implement new mechanics in a game...

switch stance................

Gu8ilty Gear and BB lets you halt dashes with Fautless Defense or Barrier cancel

 

[NY-Shadow]

And then you wonder why so many people look down on MK players... Thank you for giving capcom guys infinite ammo lol.

FYI there's 10x more spamming in MK9 than Injustice so b2b encouraging spamming is lol. Not that there's anything wrong with zoning to begin with... I think what you're trying to say is that it's easier to get around zoning in MK9 because you can simply dash block or dash d1. And in b2b games you have to be more patient about it.

Also lol @ the notion that developers didn't think that cross-ups could possibly be ambiguous and hard to block.. I'm pretty sure that was the intent. Some characters rely on zoning, others on footsies, others on frametraps/throws, and others rely on ambiguous cross-ups to open people up because they have no comboable overhead and no strong techtrap tools. The safe jumps/cross-ups are also there to reward you for successfully getting hard knockdown.

It baffles me that some people can't understand this concept of being rewarded with a mixup opportunity for whiff punishing in footsies. Without this reward there would be no way to maintain serious momentum after a KD in a game like SF and nothing to stop charge characters from turtling. Remember normals do zero chip in SF.

It's just different. One system is not better than the other.

For you to even think that the developers were like "Hey lets make this character a frame trapper to lock down an opponent to the point of not being able to escape even with ex specials, wakeups, push blocking, supermoves, interactable escapes ect, Oh! and lets leave a frame hole in the programing to allow for crossup tech".

lol. I don't think so. It doesn't surprise me at how you would even defend a flaw in the game just because you choose to exploit it and make it one of the most important features in your gameplay that allows you to win matches by basically frame trapping your opponent over and over again. Even to the point of nullifying most wakeup attempts with the flawed exploit. I'm sorry but you struck out big time here. You can try to defend a flaw in the game you have chosen to exploit, use and call "cross up tech" till you're blue in the face but your defense will always be egg shell empty.

The block button basically says '' nope, can't do that flawed move here, you're going to have to actually develop better timing and reaction speed to catch me open. Nope, you can't hit confirm me because you jumped while I was grounded and defy the blocking system by connect on me before the game program recognizes we are facing oppposit each other and has not had enough time to register the blocking direction".

Sorry, B2B is garbage for fighting games. Just because street fighter and Marvel vs Capcom have it doesn't mean its good.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Strictly a pros vs. cons on that as far as having the BLOCK button...
PRO:
Can block teleports easily.
Can dash block effectively.
Negates Cross-Ups.
CON:
No Cross-Up potential in the game.
Not your typical fighting game, when most are B2B. Making it harder for most to adapt.
Makes for an awkward button lay-out.

At least this is how I see it... It's a matter of preference IMHO.

haha... definitely personal preference as all of those would go under PROs for me except for the button layout which I rather like. (cause I use pad)