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Block Button Vs B2B. Why does it bother you?

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
I dont understand why people are against low pokes comboing into specials. Wouldn't it be good to be able to punish Kitanas d1 on block with a full combo?
I'll tell you why I'm against it

And yes, MK and IGAU are the only games I've played so blast me if you will.

While, yes, it would be AMAZING to punish a d1 on block with full combo, I think that would make it a little TOO easy. I like how in MK if you poke on block the opponent can counterpoke you and now they have the offensive advantage. Now they have to try to open you up... if they fail, it's your turn. They don't get 40% just b/c you decided to throw a poke out there.

Idk, that's my thinking.
 

Kevlang

Noob
I don't like having a block button because it restricts my movement a lot. I wish MK didn't have a block button personally, but I know the block button is a staple of the MK games so I'm not gonna ask for it to be removed or anything like that. But yeah I prefer B2B. Also, cross ups exist with B2B
It restricts your movement? How? Because you aren't able to walk away from your opponent while effectively blocking at the same time?

I think the opposite is true... You have much more freedom to move (or not move), with a block button. When I first started playing IGAU, it really bothered me that I couldn't simply stand and block. Eventually I learned that I could crouch and block, but It still opened me up to overhead attacks....

I understand the merits of b2b, and I can appreciate the added offensive threat of cross ups... but I believe that the ambiguous cross ups are really cheap. If I'm blocking an attack, the direction I need to press should switch instantly at the moment my opponent crosses an invisible prime meridian of my hitbox...

Being able to walk backward, while blocking any attacks that connect, sort of amounts to an option select. I get to run away from my opponent, and can safely do it as he chases me because all attacks are automatically blocked.

With a block button, you have to be more selective with your movement, and have to respect your opponents forward advancing moves...

Plus, in reality, wouldn't a defensive block be much more effective if someone were standing and bracing for impact? If I pushed, or kicked somebody who was walking backwards, they would fall flat on their ass...
 

Justice

Noob
I think it's whatever your comfortable with, same as choosing an input method (pad, stick). There are advantages and disadvantages and shortcuts with both.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
The blocking mechanic is what makes MK different to Injustice.

If either one had the same blocking system, Injustice would have literally been MK with DC Characters IMO. Minus a few tiny little differences like MB B3 etc.

I actually had some guy on Facebook going on a 3 essay rampage while desperately trying to tell me that MK shouldn't have a block button, and that a block button is dumb because it takes out a key "gameplay mechanic", he was obviously referring to crossups. No matter how hard I told him that MK's inclusion of a block button allows other mechanics to be flushed out more, such as interrupting strings faster, dash blocking for faster mobility etc, he kept telling me that I didn't know what I was talking about, and that all the things I mentioned were also possible with a back to block system.

I should point out that he at no point ever played MK9 at a high level. Lol.
 

haketh

Noob
The footsies... there is something very rewarding about being able to mix your opponent up (and open them up) with stagger strings, unconventional moves at unconventional times, and throws without having to use bs cross ups to do so.

Also i loved the poking/counterpoking game it created... along with the whiff punishing.



And whoever was talking about block button restricting movement... I walk back to make someone whiff whenever I want even though I have a block button. Not seeing the sense there...
It took about 15 times rereading that post to understand it, my bad. MY point still stands to most people in this thread, alot of people on this site should REEEEEEEEEEEEALY stop talking about other games because they really don't understand mechanics.
 

RelentlessOhio

Divekick x 1000
I like B2B just because it's one less button to worry about. However, the constant backwards movement and crazy mix-ups do make it frustrating.

It's hard to compare. MK is really one of the only games that uses a button to block, and it's kind of their thing, always has been.

When MKX comes out it'll take some getting used to again. But I'll adapt in a couple weeks like I do with every game.
 

Error

DF2+R2
No matter how hard I told him that MK's inclusion of a block button allows other mechanics to be flushed out more, such as interrupting strings faster, dash blocking for faster mobility etc, he kept telling me that I didn't know what I was talking about, and that all the things I mentioned were also possible with a back to block system.
Curious, what makes interrupting strings faster with a block button?
 

VenomX-90

"On your Knees!"
I like B2B just because it's one less button to worry about. However, the constant backwards movement and crazy mix-ups do make it frustrating.

It's hard to compare. MK is really one of the only games that uses a button to block, and it's kind of their thing, always has been.

When MKX comes out it'll take some getting used to again. But I'll adapt in a couple weeks like I do with every game.
Soul Calibur has a block button, you gotta press X if you are PS.
 
9) Cross-ups are not a side-effect of B2B (I previously said this and I now retract it) - they're a side-effect of using the point of impact for an attack rather than the facing of the attacker - if "back" was determined by pressing the same direction the attacker was facing or jumping in, ambiguous cross-ups would vanish overnight.
Hum... I'm not sure I follow. I mean the cross-up would still be ambiguous regardless. If you had to hold the direction of where the attacker is, you would still get hit by ambiguous cross-ups due to the nature of the 2d square hurtboxes. If the attacker is directly on top of you, how do you know which direction he is attacking from? Unless you mean they should make it so you just have to hold forward or back and it would always block both sides... That would indeed make cross-ups work more like MK (and completely ruin SF in the process lol)... But I still don't get your point.

Ambiguous cross-ups are not an "unfortunate side-effect" it's just different mechanics that you don't really like because you're used to being able to block everything by holding down a button. You're talking like cross-ups are the most horrible thing that plagues fighting games and that Capcom should get rid of them completely in all of their games...

8) Capcom are also partially responsible for MvC3 which is about as shiny of a turd as you can get.
Also as much as I'm not a fan of Marvel this was pretty random and unrelated to anything...
 

WakeUp DP

GT MK OshTekk.
I'll tell you why I'm against it

And yes, MK and IGAU are the only games I've played so blast me if you will.

While, yes, it would be AMAZING to punish a d1 on block with full combo, I think that would make it a little TOO easy. I like how in MK if you poke on block the opponent can counterpoke you and now they have the offensive advantage. Now they have to try to open you up... if they fail, it's your turn. They don't get 40% just b/c you decided to throw a poke out there.

Idk, that's my thinking.
Not all pokes have to be punishable on block. Only the fastest one or and with advance. This will help to stop mashers.
 

DangerousBacon

Mechanical Engineering Bitch!
To people saying that the complainers have no experience with other fighters... Really? Does that sound like a solid argument to you guys?
In some instances yes. For example, I told like 2 or 3 people that holding down and back allows them to maintain their position in B2B games yet they try to use the argument of "well what if the opponent uses an overhead?" Obviously you would switch to standing block to block the attack. The proximity guard feature in B2B games stops you from moving back when in these type of situations yet these people are using their ignorance of the B2B system as a whole to try and claim that it is flawed. See my point? Their inexperience with other fighters is very clear.
 

Sami

Noob
Hum... I'm not sure I follow. I mean the cross-up would still be ambiguous regardless. If you had to hold the direction of where the attacker is, you would still get hit by ambiguous cross-ups due to the nature of the 2d square hurtboxes. If the attacker is directly on top of you, how do you know which direction he is attacking from? Unless you mean they should make it so you just have to hold forward or back and it would always block both sides... That would indeed make cross-ups work more like MK (and completely ruin SF in the process lol)... But I still don't get your point.
Sorry, it was a really terrible explanation. Rather than trying to work out what "back/away" is based on the position of the attacker and the defender, base it on what direction the attacker is currently facing. Example:

Player 1 is on the left side of the screen and facing right.
Player 2 is on the right side of the screen and facing left.
All the while player 1 is attacking player 2, player 2 needs to hold "right" to block (this works as back to block) and vice-versa.
Now, player 1 does a jump-in attack and tries to land the hit on the other side of player 2. All throughout this attack, player 1 is facing and moving to the right even when he passes over the middle of player 2, hence player 2 still blocks by holding "right". Once player 1 actually lands, player 1 will change facing to face towards player 2 (now left) and player 2 will need to hold left to block subsequent attacks.

Basically, a back-to-block system that removes cross-ups and most unblockable setups (being hit on both sides at once) as you always know which direction you should block. Injustice removed a lot of unblockable setups (such as projectile on one side and normal attack on the other) by block being determined based on the direction of the attacker. Expanding it to the facing of the attacker would remove the remainder of them with the exception of the odd auto-tracking move.

Ambiguous cross-ups are not an "unfortunate side-effect" it's just different mechanics that you don't really like because you're used to being able to block everything by holding down a button. You're talking like cross-ups are the most horrible thing that plagues fighting games and that Capcom should get rid of them completely in all of their games...
Please don't tell me what I'm used to - I can handle block button and back to block games just fine. In addition, you still need to pick the right height level with the block button so it's not just block everything by holding down a button (again, I hate the unreactable stuff and the sheer amount of setups that turn blocking from a skill to a guess are what put me off playing the game).

Ambiguous cross-ups and unblockables have become part of the SF play-style but that doesn't mean it needs to carry over to all other fighting games. In addition, if a game implements a back-to-block system it does not need to automatically inherit the side-effects (intentional or otherwise) of that system. Very few fighting games innovate with their blocking/guard mechanics and it generally comes down to "back-to-block 100% SF style" or "overly simplistic block-button". Injustice mixed up the B2B formula more than most people realised.

Also as much as I'm not a fan of Marvel this was pretty random and unrelated to anything...
Capcom ain't perfect :p


Also, I still say that if a game uses a block button that becomes active immediately and has zero recovery when released and doesn't add any other blocking mechanics to the game, then the block button becomes completely redundant as there's no reason why you won't hold block when stationary. At that point, you may as well remove the button completely and implement neutral guard as functionally there is no difference (when you're neutral, you're always blocking).
 

Filipino Man

Retirement my ass
IMO, block button works for Mortal Kombat because of the sheer amount of chip damage and fear of block infinites.

For Street Fighter, block buttons would NEVER work because there's effectively no amount of chip and the overheads are slow as sin and do not lead into anything. Therefore, back to block is essential.

I personally prefer back to block because I would hate to have to purposely stagger for a high low mixup and instead have more modes of opening up an opponent.
 

ryublaze

Noob
I hated b2b at first but then I got used to it and now I love it. It adds more depth cuz not only do u have to worry about blocking high/low but now u have to block forward/back. If people could jump over you in real life, you can't block from your front and back at the same time, just like how you can't block high and low at the same time.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
People like to say crossups are ambiguous when they really aren't. There are a lot of factors to consider like hitboxes of the crossup and wakeup being used, the timing of the wakeup or crossup, and the hitbox of the character. Just because someone doesnt consider any of that and manages to cross you up does not mean it is ambiguous. There are a lot of Injustice crossups that LOOK ambiguous(especially in the corner) but they really are not. If you realize the time it takes for the opponent to stand up, and figure out how fast you need to press your jump in attack in order to crossup or not crossup, it will essentially look like an ambiguous crossup if you get the timing down. So really, save one or two weird instances, there are not a bunch of "ambiguous crossups" in Injustice, since the attacker CAN control whether they crossup or not(even if they don't control it ans get lucky).

The whole "I hate walking back when I want to block" is a null argument. If you want to stand still and block, you have to press down and back, and if your opponent tries to go overhead you then fuzzy guard by pressing back really quickly. You will still be crouching but you will block the overhead. There are certain instances where that will not work due to some extremely fast overheads in Inj, but that has more to do with Inj. and not back to block. And if your opponent attacks and you block it, you dont walk forward because you are in blockstun. The only time you should be walking back is because you want to in order to play footsies or make something whiff, if you find yourself getting out of your preferred range or walking back more than you want to that is on you and not the system.

On the flip side, most of the supposed "problems" with the block button in 2D games are either MK specific problems or people not understanding the meta of a block button game. In MK it took a frame or two to release the block button which led to things like the meterburn glitch and some wonky blockstun. This can easily be fixed and most likely will be in MKX. The notion that crossups dont matter in a block button game is also completely untrue. While crossing up the opponent did not lead to a combo MK9(Unless you were playing online) it led to essentially a free string. Most characters had a frametrap or a heavy chip string that would start their offense. This can be crucial in any game, especially MK. So while crossups aren't a free combo in a block button game, they tend to have an impact on the meta just the same.

Honestly both systems work for their respective games. Block button works for games that have heavy chip and lots of teleport moves, while back to block works for games that focus more on crossups and less on chip heavy offense. This comes down to people not liking one system and trying to say it is "broken", when really using the other system would actually break that particular game.

TLDR: Block Button works for MK, B2B works for Injustice. Adapt or play a different game.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Curious, what makes interrupting strings faster with a block button?
Peronally, I find it easier to interrupt strings when the game has a block button. I find it a lot more comfortable to release a button on reaction, ready to interrupt, rather than changing which direction I'm moving.

Dealing with Kabal Gas Blasts/Dash cancelling for example, would be a lot hard to deal with in Injustice. Just look at how hard it was to defend against Cyborgs instant air blasts when they hit crouching opponents.
 

Error

DF2+R2
Peronally, I find it easier to interrupt strings when the game has a block button. I find it a lot more comfortable to release a button on reaction, ready to interrupt, rather than changing which direction I'm moving.

Dealing with Kabal Gas Blasts/Dash cancelling for example, would be a lot hard to deal with in Injustice. Just look at how hard it was to defend against Cyborgs instant air blasts when they hit crouching opponents.
But then again, doesn't unblocking in MK take frames? If so wouldn't b2b make it easier to interrupt since it's instant? And thought Cyborg's air blasts were an infinite because of block adv + their hitbox.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
It took about 15 times rereading that post to understand it, my bad. MY point still stands to most people in this thread, alot of people on this site should REEEEEEEEEEEEALY stop talking about other games because they really don't understand mechanics.
Sorry for blowing up at you... but it felt like an attack on me. Meh, my bad.

Anyway, I have only played MK and IGAU but that's one of each type. But I will admit MK probably formed my preference since it was my first. So, I don't know all about both systems. I just like throwing my 2 cents in.

No hard feelings.