Match-up Discussion Catwoman Matchup Discussion

[migosan]

helllo guys, started trying out catwoman last week, really having fun with her, and i want to make her viable for tourneys, currently having big problems with nightwing, don't know how to fight against a braindead nightwing, can hang with him during escrima, but when he goes to staff, can't seem to go in, jump in (which i know is really stupid and really unsafe) gets punished to a combo by that very long j2, dashing in gets poked by that stupid f1, when i get in, he just spams d1 to death, can't even punish him with d1 cat claws, f1 string reversal gets poked out by dumb d1 spam. and when i block flying dick, he still has the priority to d1 spam, i can punish it by d2 on reaction or if he doesn't spam d1 right away i can just grab punish, but if he does flying dick + d1 spam cant seem to do anything, rather than pusblock. which also puts me in a difficult position to get in, since he can just poke the shit out. slam the fucking ground like a plumber, throw those dumb shurikens. hahaaha sorry i just cant find an answer, looking for help. also having problem fighting ares when he begins to d1 spam to godsmack resets everytime.

 

[16 Bit]

Staff stance is tough for her.

The air game between them is this: His d+2 sucks so his main anti-air is to do a preemptive jump 2. That does beat all her jumping attacks but you can d+2 it. If you're sitting there ducking and he does an early jump 2 you'll go under it and you can AA it. If he's doing jump back 2 you can beat it with MB b+3. Either way once you stop him from doing jump 2 you can start jumping in yourself. He does out footsie her in the neutral game but mb b+3 is pretty much your go to move for blowing up his stuff. That'll beat f+1, standing 2, and ground pound and keep him honest. So once you have his footsies game and his jump 2 under control you can start playing the game.

When he's mashing d+1 you have a couple options. If you think he's going to just mash d+1 then continue blocking and look for a chance to backdash out. It's irritating but it's doing no damage. He can't beat you doing d+1. He's going to start doing his mixups or d+1~staff spin. If you read him doing d+1 and then a standing 2 or whatever you can d+1~claws. His block advantage on d+1 isn't good enough to stop that. Your risk is just him doing another d+1 or d+1~spin, neither are going to kill you.

Also in staff he has no fully invincible wakeup attack. If you time your hard knockdown setups right he can be stuffed. I usually end my combos in 1,2,2 then do f+1/b+1 or just standing 3 if I don't want to risk screwing up the timing. He can delay his wakeups to mess with your timing though.

 

[migosan]

Staff stance is tough for her.

The air game between them is this: His d+2 sucks so his main anti-air is to do a preemptive jump 2. That does beat all her jumping attacks but you can d+2 it. If you're sitting there ducking and he does an early jump 2 you'll go under it and you can AA it. If he's doing jump back 2 you can beat it with MB b+3. Either way once you stop him from doing jump 2 you can start jumping in yourself. He does out footsie her in the neutral game but mb b+3 is pretty much your go to move for blowing up his stuff. That'll beat f+1, standing 2, and ground pound and keep him honest. So once you have his footsies game and his jump 2 under control you can start playing the game.

When he's mashing d+1 you have a couple options. If you think he's going to just mash d+1 then continue blocking and look for a chance to backdash out. It's irritating but it's doing no damage. He can't beat you doing d+1. He's going to start doing his mixups or d+1~staff spin. If you read him doing d+1 and then a standing 2 or whatever you can d+1~claws. His block advantage on d+1 isn't good enough to stop that. Your risk is just him doing another d+1 or d+1~spin, neither are going to kill you.

Also in staff he has no fully invincible wakeup attack. If you time your hard knockdown setups right he can be stuffed. I usually end my combos in 1,2,2 then do f+1/b+1 or just standing 3 if I don't want to risk screwing up the timing. He can delay his wakeups to mess with your timing though.

Yay, the.cat king! Thanks for the tips and insights, totally forgot about selina's mb+b3, will def try these, will try reading more j2 staff and punishing with d2, isnt 1,f2 an ideal ender against nwing?

 

[16 Bit]

Yay, the.cat king! Thanks for the tips and insights, totally forgot about selina's mb+b3, will def try these, will try reading more j2 staff and punishing with d2, isnt 1,f2 an ideal ender against nwing?

1,f+2 is good too. I use both 1,f+2 and 1,2,2. Just depends on the setup I have in mind.

 

[hard_goodbye]

What kind of setups can you get off a 1,f+2 ender? dash MBcatdash, jump back 2 and the likes?

 

[16 Bit]

What kind of setups can you get off a 1,f+2 ender? dash MBcatdash, jump back 2 and the likes?

Pretty much anything. It's a good hard knockdown. If you time it right they can't even jump, backdash or mb b+3 out of b+1 or f+1. They have to guess or wakeup.

 

[JLU51306]

I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere between pages 2 - 13, but for the sake of convenience, what are considered her worst match-ups?

 

[Laos_boy]

.

I'm sure this has been mentioned somewhere between pages 2 - 13, but for the sake of convenience, what are considered her worst match-ups?

Aquaman 7-3
Bane 7-3
Sinestro 7-3

And supposedly lex which I dont see

 

[JLU51306]

.

Aquaman 7-3
Bane 7-3
Sinestro 7-3

And supposedly lex which I dont see

Where does she stand on Flash and WW? 6/4 their favors?

 

[Justice]

.

Aquaman 7-3
Bane 7-3
Sinestro 7-3

And supposedly lex which I dont see

Lex is manageable as long as you know the matchup. It's one of my personal horrible matchups but I would almost dare say that a knowledgeable Selina could make this a 5/5.

 

[16 Bit]

Aquaman, Sinestro and Bane are very bad. Sinestro most lilely being the worst followed by Aquaman and then Bane the most manageable.

The Flash is probably an even match. Lex and Wonder Woman are most likely slight disadvantage.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Aquaman, Sinestro and Bane are very bad. Sinestro most lilely being the worst followed by Aquaman and then Bane the most manageable.

The Flash is probably an even match. Lex and Wonder Woman are most likely slight disadvantage.

may i please see your catwoman mu chart? thank you.

 

[oP Twist]

.

Aquaman 7-3
Bane 7-3
Sinestro 7-3

And supposedly lex which I dont see

How is sinestro a 3-7? Nw goes 4-6 with him and doesnt even have an easy way to get in like catdash is

 

[16 Bit]

How is sinestro a 3-7? Nw goes 4-6 with him and doesnt even have an easy way to get in like catdash is

She gets out footsied extremely badly. His back walk speed is so fast she can't keep up walking and can barely get in with a dash. It's so fast he can walk out of frame traps like f+1. Has godlike anti air to shut down jumping. Can punish low whip hard, her main tool for stopping walk back. Has a fully invincible wakeup so it's not one of those matches where she gets out footsied but it's 50/50 town on knockdown. Gets to charge trait pretty much anytime he wants, she has to throw out something risky on early read to stop him. Cat Dash is not a free or easy way in. The armor doesn't start up until the first dash is finished so she still gets zoned out somewhat.

I struggle to get games on Cowboy. We both have it at 3-7. It's significantly worse than playing Theo actually.

 

[16 Bit]

may i please see your catwoman mu chart? thank you.

Maybe I'll post one someday. Usually I don't feel like arguing about it.

 

[JLU51306]

Maybe I'll post one someday. Usually I don't feel like arguing about it.

I'll take your word over anyone else's on what match-ups are what. I'd love to see your thoughts on the whole roster. It can only help (*famous last words*.)

 

[Ecodus]

How is sinestro a 3-7? Nw goes 4-6 with him and doesnt even have an easy way to get in like catdash is

NW in staff stance is very difficult for CW. He doesn't need a way to get in from screen to screen because he can just zone her to death, what makes it tolerable from zoning distance is on a read you can get a mb catdash for a punish. In the neutral game CW gets completely out footsied. Range and speed of normals beat CW pretty bad, and I think NW has options on a blocked low whip (flying Grayson and ground pound) up close his d1 is tough to deal with and d1~specials like staff spin can lead to + frame advantage for NW. Im not 100% sure how the knockdown game looks. I know CW has some options with j2, but it's not free pressure or 50/50s like against Zod or Raven.

NW along with GL are two of my more problematic MUs that don't include the terrible 3 (aqua, bane, sinestro)

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Maybe I'll post one someday. Usually I don't feel like arguing about it.

i just want to see the mu chart, i wont argue and you are not entitled to reply to anyone, its your personal mu chart, just like i think Hawkgirl 6-4 Catwoman.

 

[Ecodus]

i just want to see the mu chart, i wont argue and you are not entitled to reply to anyone, its your personal mu chart, just like i think Hawkgirl 6-4 Catwoman.

@Espio

Real talk

 

[Vak Phoenix]

@Espio

Real talk

I can do this all day

 

[Espio]

@Espio

Real talk

The irony being that I was the one who suggested it was in Hawkgirl's favor to Vak lol.

Although even is not out of the question.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

The irony being that I was the one who suggested it was in Hawkgirl's favor to Vak lol.

Although even is not out of the question.

well i think it is too. cause u gave me all the good reasons and after playing sets with rainbowpride and some other cats on ps4 i think it is 6-4.

 

[oP Twist]

NW in staff stance is very difficult for CW. He doesn't need a way to get in from screen to screen because he can just zone her to death, what makes it tolerable from zoning distance is on a read you can get a mb catdash for a punish. In the neutral game CW gets completely out footsied. Range and speed of normals beat CW pretty bad, and I think NW has options on a blocked low whip (flying Grayson and ground pound) up close his d1 is tough to deal with and d1~specials like staff spin can lead to + frame advantage for NW. Im not 100% sure how the knockdown game looks. I know CW has some options with j2, but it's not free pressure or 50/50s like against Zod or Raven.

NW along with GL are two of my more problematic MUs that don't include the terrible 3 (aqua, bane, sinestro)

I was just talking about the sin mu but i think its not as easy to zone cw as u think. Catdash punishes ground pound and her j2 has such a great range the only place im comfortable using ground pound is completely full screen. Nwdoing mb staff spin against cw is almost only for chip because she can crouch s1 and make it whiff so only options that nw has are j2 and s2 and i believe s2 can be backdashed after mb staff spin and flying grayson wont catch the backdash

 

[16 Bit]

Ground Pound zoning is good against her. You make her fear doing jump 2 by using your jump 2. You make her fear doing Cat Dash by blocking. Ground Pound forces her to take action or she's stuck. Standing 2 catches her backdashing after a blocked Staff Spin.

 

[oP Twist]

Ground Pound zoning is good against her. You make her fear doing jump 2 by using your jump 2. You make her fear doing Cat Dash by blocking. Ground Pound forces her to take action or she's stuck. Standing 2 catches her backdashing after a blocked Staff Spin.

She makes nw fear j2 because if he does a preemptive j2 and she crouches its full combo punish. She can easily forward dash to make ground pound whiff. Even if u block catdash full screen u cant punish and nows shes up close to you exactly where she wants to be. If u do a ground pound and she does j2 it full combo punishes nw. Off of a j2 if nw anti airs he doesnt get nearly as much damage as catwoman gets fromt a whiffed ground pound and then she gets a 50/50 after that knockdown into even more damage. NW outfootsies but a lot of his stuff whiffs on her wakeup flip kick whiffs for a full punish where as all nw gets by punishing her wakeups is staff spin