how balanced is INJ really?

[M2Dave]

I was just asking for an opinion. I guess she has a lot of 6 4's in her favour?

Probably.

The majority of 7:3 match ups are the result of full screen control and footsies. For example, Catwoman has to deal with Aquaman's FTD anywhere on the screen. When she does close the gap at mid range, Aquaman's footsies are too dominant. She basically loses anywhere on the screen.

I may be wrong, but I do not know of any Batgirl match ups that would fit such formula.

 

[NoobHunter420]

In order, the most winning 7:3 match ups (or better).

1. Martian Manhunter
2. Aquaman
3. Zod
4. Sinestro
5. Bane

glad to see ppl realizing how broken bane is

 

[Chimbz]

I actually find this game to be quite balanced. Every character has their own "bullshit". It could also be the alcohol in me talking right now.

But thb, I do find it to be pretty balanced.

 

[RoGE]

Who cares, if your character sucks then pick a better one.

 

[Doombawkz]

In order, the most winning 7:3 match ups (or better).

1. Martian Manhunter
2. Aquaman
3. Zod
4. Sinestro
5. Bane

MMH maybe, Aquaman ehh.. I guess.
The rest though, I dunno. Don't think sinestro 7:3s as many people as Bane.
I mean Bane 8:2s people even (or so I've heard).
Off the top of my head: Catwoman, Grundy, Arrow, an argument could be made for Joker now that the pushblock stuff is out of the window. There could be more, but I don't have the experience or room to really say, the first 3 I listed are pretty much given though, with Grundy having the worst time of any of them.

 

[STRYKIE]

I'd have to say Tekken Tag Tournament 2 is the most balanced fighter ever made.

No one sucks, no one is OP or ridiculously good(unless you count the Capos with bad connections online) , tournaments always have a pretty varied amount of characters played, and there are so many moves for so many situations, everyone has an answer for everything.

That game was 100% balanced right out of the gate.

Even the DLC characters, who were entirely free.

No re-released "balanced" version, no long list of patches, no secret OP glitches or combos, no unbalanced come-back mechanic, etc.

Yoshimitsu ain't much better than he was in T6, and doesn't bring a whole lot to the actual tag meta.

I'm also guessing you didn't have Kunimitsu or A.Ogre before they went public lol.

But other than that I mostly agree, funny you mention this aswell considering the game pretty much implores what most of TYM pleads for, yet still got dropped like a sack of shit by a majority after a few months.

 

[Fromundaman]

Yoshimitsu ain't much better than he was in T6, and doesn't bring a whole lot to the actual tag meta.

I'm also guessing you didn't have Kunimitsu or A.Ogre before they went public lol.

But other than that I mostly agree, funny you mention this aswell considering the game pretty much implores what most of TYM pleads for, yet still got dropped like a sack of shit by a majority after a few months.

I've heard it's really fun to play, but even Tekken players admit it can be a bit more boring to watch than most games, and that's what I think hurts it.

 

[Pterodactyl]

Yoshimitsu ain't much better than he was in T6, and doesn't bring a whole lot to the actual tag meta.

I'm also guessing you didn't have Kunimitsu or A.Ogre before they went public lol.

But other than that I mostly agree, funny you mention this aswell considering the game pretty much implores what most of TYM pleads for, yet still got dropped like a sack of shit by a majority after a few months.

I know about the circumstances of the DLC, but it's still DLC, and it was still free.

Yoshi may not be the best character, but he can damn well still win.

Which was my point, that it's balanced to the point of no characters having any serious match-up problems, anyone can beat anyone, some take more work that the others, but there are no hopeless situations or 7-3's or anything like that.

I've heard it's really fun to play, but even Tekken players admit it can be a bit more boring to watch than most games, and that's what I think hurts it.

I entirely disagree with you, TTT2 is very entertaining to watch, IMO.

No camping, almost all combos are big or cool looking, you can see any character at any tourney, and it's always fast paced. You also don't have to worry about people using the same combos and moves all the time, unlike in games like SF or MK/INJ, which I enjoy playing but not watching outside of maybe the EVO finals.

 

[M2Dave]

No camping, almost all combos are big or cool looking, you can see any character at any tourney, and it's always fast paced. You also don't have to worry about people using the same combos and moves all the time, unlike in games like SF or MK/INJ, which I enjoy playing but not watching outside of maybe the EVO finals.

First of all, the same combos and moves are used all the time. The Tekken series is not impervious to highly abusable attacks and combos.

Second of all, Tekken Tag Tournament 2 lacks diverse gameplay like UMvC3 and Injustice do. The game exclusively revolves around footsies at a high level. In general, if you understand how to play the game at a high level, you can play any character. That is why a great player like Knee can achieve the highest ranks with a dozen characters.

I think I had rather deal with Martian Manhunter and bitch daily than play a boring game that has little to no variety whatsoever.

 

[Qwark28]

, an argument could be made for Joker now that the pushblock stuff is out of the window.

No.

 

[Doombawkz]

No.

Yes. What else do we have to actually care about from him?

 

[Qwark28]

Yes. What else do we have to actually care about from him?

Oh, so Joker is 8-2, please tell me which Jokers you've played? You know nothing about Joker if you think his teeth to pushblock turned this from 5-5 to 8-2.

I've discussed and played this matchup with Grr, we both agree 6-4 bane.

 

[Doombawkz]

Oh, so Joker is 8-2, please tell me which Jokers you've played? You know nothing about Joker if you think his teeth to pushblock turned this from 5-5 to 8-2.

I've discussed and played this matchup with Grr, we both agree 6-4 bane.

8-2? No. 7-3. Grr plays a specific style of Bane, so his answer wouldn't universally cover all if us... and didn't he retire? Black Adam's backdash made him an 8-2 for Bane (convincingly) and it's removal made it a 6-4 our favour, so why couldn't the removal of the only thing we had to actually care about change a MU from a 5-5 to a 7-3? Like I'm wracking my brains and nothing comes to mind that we have to think about, and when Bane no longer needs to care the MU swings by a heavy margin.

Also I've played my fair share of Mufasa. His joker is pretty good.

 

[Qwark28]

8-2? No. 7-3. Grr plays a specific style of Bane, so his answer wouldn't universally cover all if us... and didn't he retire? Black Adam's backdash made him an 8-2 for Bane (convincingly) and it's removal made it a 6-4 our favour, so why couldn't the removal of the only thing we had to actually care about change a MU from a 5-5 to a 7-3? Like I'm wracking my brains and nothing comes to mind that we have to think about, and when Bane no longer needs to care the MU swings by a heavy margin.

Also I've played my fair share of Mufasa. His joker is pretty good.

Both me and @StevoSuprem0 have lots of Bane experience, we're pretty sure we know the matchup to play it better than Mufasa or whoever. And how do you even know the matchup when you're not playing it at an optimal lvl or even know Joker's options?

What made BA 6-4 was the nerf of backdash, lightning and the buffs of Bane.

You don't understand the matchup one bit, teeth to pushblock is still extremely useful vs Bane, all that is lost is the 20% we used to get from the combo. Pushblock to teeth still serves its original purpose which is to stall for time for venom to run out, the damage was something dumb to take out but it doesn't change the base function of the setup.

 

[Doombawkz]

Both me and @StevoSuprem0 have lots of Bane experience, we're pretty sure we know the matchup to play it better than Mufasa or whoever. And how do you even know the matchup when you're not playing it at an optimal lvl or even know Joker's options?

What made BA 6-4 was the nerf of backdash, lightning and the buffs of Bane.

You don't understand the matchup one bit, teeth to pushblock is still extremely useful vs Bane, all that is lost is the 20% we used to get from the combo. Pushblock to teeth still serves its original purpose which is to stall for time for venom to run out, the damage was something dumb to take out but it doesn't change the base function of the setup.

So I have to play you on a laggy across-the-world connection on a system I don't use, or steveo? I can probably find time for a set with him.

Lightning only lost a bit of advantage, we still can't armor through it so no, that didn't change much. It was backdash, and literally only that. Bane buffs didn't actually do much for him in that MU. But you wouldn't know much about it since you didn't have to suffer through it, his mobility is the only thing that stopped us. Too fast and too much invuln to grab through, and his options for getting away were too good to stop. Bane had nothing, but the moment that mobility disappeared and we could catch him, it shifted hugely into left field.

I would almost want to say "so?", but I don't feel like theory fighting. If Joker has something else I welcome it's showing, but otherwise this could be another "d.2 bane out of MB VU" thing. I'll play Steveo or whoever and let's see if he can change my mind.

 

[trustinme]

What a enjoyable thread this is.

 

[Qwark28]

So I have to play you on a laggy across-the-world connection on a system I don't use, or steveo? I can probably find time for a set with him.

Lightning only lost a bit of advantage, we still can't armor through it so no, that didn't change much. It was backdash, and literally only that. Bane buffs didn't actually do much for him in that MU. But you wouldn't know much about it since you didn't have to suffer through it, his mobility is the only thing that stopped us. Too fast and too much invuln to grab through, and his options for getting away were too good to stop. Bane had nothing, but the moment that mobility disappeared and we could catch him, it shifted hugely into left field.

I would almost want to say "so?", but I don't feel like theory fighting. If Joker has something else I welcome it's showing, but otherwise this could be another "d.2 bane out of MB VU" thing.

You don't have to play anyone. I don't care what you think but stop spreading misinformation when better tournament Banes have been agreeing to other numbers and for good reasons.

Lightning lost trip guard. That was the most important nerf of that move.

 

[Pterodactyl]

First of all, the same combos and moves are used all the time. The Tekken series is not impervious to highly abusable attacks and combos.

Second of all, Tekken Tag Tournament 2 lacks diverse gameplay like UMvC3 and Injustice do. The game exclusively revolves around footsies at a high level. In general, if you understand how to play the game at a high level, you can play any character. That is why a great player like Knee can achieve the highest ranks with a dozen characters.

I think I had rather deal with Martian Manhunter and bitch daily than play a boring game that has little to no variety whatsoever.

I think i'd rather play a game that's well balanced, exciting, and has actual variety and diversity online, offline, and in tourneys than play something like Injustice, UMvC3, or Street Fighter. Those games are like watching paint dry. Worse, they're like watching the same kind of paint dry the same way every time.

And please tell me what's diverse about UMvC3, or at least what possible diversity it could have over TTT2, because I must be missing something, I almost wanted to laugh at the fact that you used that as some kind of counter point.

The definition of diversity more or less is to possess a range of different things, where does UMvC3 have a larger range of different things over Tekken?

 

[Rampage254]

RE-I mean, pumpkincream, can really bring out interesting threads.

 

[M2Dave]

I think i'd rather play a game that's well balanced, exciting, and has actual variety and diversity online, offline, and in tourneys than play something like Injustice, UMvC3, or Street Fighter. Those games are like watching paint dry. Worse, they're like watching the same kind of paint dry the same way every time.

And please tell me what's diverse about UMvC3, or at least what possible diversity it could have over TTT2, because I must be missing something, I almost wanted to laugh at the fact that you used that as some kind of counter point.

The definition of diversity more or less is to possess a range of different things, where does UMvC3 have a larger range of different things over Tekken?

I am not educated enough to discuss UMvC3, but I can compare TTT2 and Injustice because I play both.

Again, you have to realize is that TTT2 mostly revolves around footsies at a high level. You are deceived by the numerous viable characters because you believe that many viable characters lead to diversity. The reality is that all of these characters mostly play in the same manner. Few, if any, differences exist. That is how Namco achieves Tekken's balance.

Injustice offers more variety due to special attacks and MB attacks, MB b+3 and MB f+3, power traits, projectiles, interactable objects, etc.

Slips and I privately talked about the differences between TTT2 and Injustice. We unanimously agreed about all the things I am telling you right now.

 

[Pterodactyl]

After playing both, I'll have to respectfully disagree with you.

I don't know who "Slips" is, and I don't really care, but I guess I disagree with him as well.

We have differing opinions, and i'm fine with that. I was writing a long post in response, but then I realized no matter what either of us says, it will always be opinion, and neither of us could change each others minds, so instead of going back and forth with you and derailing this thread further, i'll just stop here.

Thanks for the short debate though.

 

[Doombawkz]

You don't have to play anyone. I don't care what you think but stop spreading misinformation when better tournament Banes have been agreeing to other numbers and for good reasons.

Lightning lost trip guard. That was the most important nerf of that move.

Grr has claimed some pretty radical things after losing or having a hard time against it. That's why I'm skeptical. Also he would probably be the only Bane with any kind of experience, which is a shame that theres not more Joker players, however I've heard that Joker loses against Bane after that tidbit was gone, and honestly its almost hard not to believe it. Thats why I'm more insistent on playing @StevoSuprem0, because I can only assume there some magical tech I'm overlooking that'll be shown to me.

Something that makes it not like...

Trip guard didn't affect us so much as the advantage, most banes wouldn't bother jumping since dive kick would eat us from anywhere anyways.

 

[Gh0sty]

I thought the game was fairly balanced when I was playing BG exclusively; everybody has their dirt, etc, etc. Then I fell in love with GA...perspective is everything.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Grr has claimed some pretty radical things after losing or having a hard time against it. That's why I'm skeptical. Also he would probably be the only Bane with any kind of experience, which is a shame that theres not more Joker players, however I've heard that Joker loses against Bane after that tidbit was gone, and honestly its almost hard not to believe it. Thats why I'm more insistent on playing @StevoSuprem0, because I can only assume there some magical tech I'm overlooking that'll be shown to me.

Something that makes it not like...

Trip guard didn't affect us so much as the advantage, most banes wouldn't bother jumping since dive kick would eat us from anywhere anyways.

I don't play online because I have alot of trouble adapting to the timing difference. There are plenty of solid Jokers online to play though. Notez, Kentucky, Vengence, EMP Dark, etc. Take your pick. They all have a great understanding of the character, though I can't speak for their Bane MU experience.
Qwark is giving me a bit too much credit vs Bane though. I've only played Grr a few times. Even still though, I think it's a pretty reasonable fight. 6-4 in Bane's favor just because Joker can have a lot of trouble getting up, but can get a decent defense going in the neutral game and can hurt Bane greatly when he is able to knock him down.

 

[Doombawkz]

I don't play online because I have alot of trouble adapting to the timing difference. There are plenty of solid Jokers online to play though. Notez, Kentucky, Vengence, EMP Dark, etc. Take your pick. They all have a great understanding of the character, though I can't speak for their Bane MU experience.
Qwark is giving me a bit too much credit vs Bane though. I've only played Grr a few times. Even still though, I think it's a pretty reasonable fight. 6-4 in Bane's favor just because Joker can have a lot of trouble getting up, but can get a decent defense going in the neutral game and can hurt Bane greatly when he is able to knock him down.

I don't know, like... Joker's OTG game just seems like a slower reverse DD to me (but then I play Truth's batgirl sometimes and all that so maybe I'm just conditioned). I'm a bit sad you don't play online . I've found newer tech recently thats pretty dang good against Joker on top of a few other things (like strings that can't be pushblocked and other junk) after playing Mufasa and getting bodied by walk back + teeth. I was hoping to get in some time with a quality one, but most of them are on XBL and I'm not.