How Good Are You At Making Reads!?!

[EnergyKD]

Hold dat shit, machine never stood a chance against my irrational thinking.

 

[iShinnok03]

Went full retard, this is the result:

GG easy 2 gud 4 veteran

 

[Qwark28]

Playing Dueling Network and Yu-Gi-Oh Pro made me hone my skills at RPS, it's all about establishing a meta and playing mind-games around it.

Most players in DN and YGOPro go for Rock first, so you either play it safe and do Rock to get the tie, or risk the paper and get counter-picked by scissors. Anyways, that's only a FT1 though, it's definitely different in longer sets where the Yomi levels rise.

as for 50/50s in FGs, I don't think they're game-breaking, but it definitely dumbs down the mind-games. Because why play footsies or guess what the opponent does on wake-up when you can just put them in a braindead 50/50 and win a coinflip.

Anyone past the dumbfuck stage will pick paper, that's where the true mindgame starts. Most of them don't go past the first layer so scissors is an easy win.

Anyway 19-14-20, was bringing it back from 12-17 and 16-19 but he got me in the end when I decided to mix it up.

 

[Juggs]

On Veteran: 20W / 18T / 19L

This shit makes you salty as hell when the AI goes on a streak. I was up 10-0 then went down 10-13.

 

[HeroesNZ]

20-15-7
The computer are kinda obvious because they always go for the win, leaving you with a decreased chance of losing. It's scary how they genuinely think like humans though
PS - HOLD DAT SHIT BITCHES xD

 

[STRYKIE]

In Soviet Russia, mixup reads you!

 

[Juggs]

snip

Anyone past the dumbfuck stage will pick paper, that's where the true mindgame starts. Most of them don't go past the first layer so scissors is an easy win.

You should see @R.E.O. and my RPS's on DN. We literally played RPS for 5 minutes one time, shit gets weird when we play YuGiOh.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Anyone past the dumbfuck stage will pick paper, that's where the true mindgame starts. Most of them don't go past the first layer so scissors is an easy win.

Anyway 19-14-20, was bringing it back from 12-17 and 16-19 but he got me in the end when I decided to mix it up.

And that's why most go rock because some overthink it and go to level 3 right away.

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

He reads your pattern per 3 rounds. HOLD DAT SHIT

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

You're right in the sense that you can read what a player is going to do, even in a 50/50. But reading on a 50/50 isn't much different than reading a coin flip. Sure you can guess based on your opponents tendencies, but it's still a flat out guess.

 

[Qwark28]

And that's why most go rock because some overthink it and go to level 3 right away.

You don't know that and you know there are enough people in the world to go straight to no layers.

 

[ABACABB]

For 3 tries my best score was 27-16 first two I lost

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

You don't know that and you know there are enough people in the world to go straight to no layers.

meh in the end, it's still a guess

 

[KDZ]

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Decided to continue FT100.. still won lol.

Not gonna lie I would've been so mad and salty if he got to 100 first haha.

 

[Pan1cMode]

You're right in the sense that you can read what a player is going to do, even in a 50/50. But reading on a 50/50 isn't much different than reading a coin flip. Sure you can guess based on your opponents tendencies, but it's still a flat out guess.

No, you can't 'read' a coin flip. It's meant to be 100% random. Your opponent's tendencies don't factor into it at all since they don't get to choose/influence the outcome. When your opponent gets to choose between the two outcomes, that's when the reads come into it. Yes, it's still a guess, but so are any reads in any fighting game.

 

[Relaxedstate]

as for 50/50s in FGs, I don't think they're game-breaking, but it definitely dumbs down the mind-games. Because why play footsies or guess what the opponent does on wake-up when you can just put them in a braindead 50/50 and win a coinflip.

You see this is where people misunderstand "50-50"s in fighting games or the 33/33/33 situation. Human beings are incapable of being random ('coin-flip' analogy). A lot of people mistakenly assume that being 'braindead' or just not thinking about which 50-50 option you will chose, will somehow make it random and impossible to read/predict. In fact, playing braindead, or not consciously thinking while you play does not equate randomness. It actually exacerbates your implicit human tendencies and patterns, making them all the easier to read for the high level player/computer algorithm (if you try and play braindead random). (Go on and try to play random against the computer in a ft100).

In a fighting game there is often much more context to help a player make a good read outside a vortex situation. However, even in a cheap 33/33/33, or 50/50 situation this game is still very much played on the 'reads above chance' principle. It rewards players who understand unconscious tendency, even when you only have 1 chance to guess.One cannot turn off their ability to 'think' and become random.

It is an unconscious skill, trained over many years. Even then it is difficult to recognize in yourself and in others. Many younger naive players can't seem to grasp why they are being downloaded so easily and cannot seem to get better, even when their character mastery, tools, knowledge and execution are perfect. It is the implicit skill of reading what another player will do, even in a seemingly 50-50 situation that grants success greater the chance would allow. It is the hardest skill to train and recognize. Some people are naturally better at it than others.

If two players do infact go back and forth, or guess wrong/right equal amounts of times; It is not because it is a coin-flip situation. It is because they are of equal skill in reading each other. It is about cognitive strategy (or computer algorithms) that go even in competition.

If a player ever feels stuck, like they have hit a ceiling, or do not know how to improve anymore. Look beyond what you can consciously improve...look to the unconscious.

 

[Odoyle]

I used to always lose at rock paper scissors against real people now I pick scissors 75% of the time and win lol. "Who the fuck picks scissors?"

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

No, you can't 'read' a coin flip. It's meant to be 100% random. Your opponent's tendencies don't factor into it at all since they don't get to choose/influence the outcome. When your opponent gets to choose between the two outcomes, that's when the reads come into it. Yes, it's still a guess, but so are any reads in any fighting game.

I said it isn't much different. Reading if your opponent is going to go high/low is much harder than reading what they're going to do in a specific situation where you know their options.

 

[EnergyKD]

I found a way to exploit the system here is a way to 10 - 0 the Veteran Computer Guaranteed

Here is how it goes

You start with scissor, Win chance is 33% if correct the next four will be correct 100% of the time.

Paper
Paper
Paper
Rock

So round 1 is : Scissor,Paper,Paper,Paper,Rock

You're winning 5-0

Round 2

You start with Scissor again, Win chance again is 33% if correct the next four will be correct 100% of the time.

Paper
Paper
Scissor
Rock

So Round 2 should look like: Scissor, Paper, Scissor, Scissor, Rock

If you started Round 2 with Scissor but got a tie here is the alternate pattern.

Round 2 (alt)

Scissor (tie)
Paper (50% chance to win if correct next four is correct)
Scissor
Scissor
Scissor
Paper

You win 10-0 GG

 

[Pan1cMode]

I said it isn't much different. Reading if your opponent is going to go high/low is much harder than reading what they're going to do in a specific situation where you know their options.

Actually, it's easier to read since there are only two options to chose from.

The whole point of this exercise is to prove that yes, it is different as human's always follow patterns when picking overhead/low and these can be read.

EDIT:
Also, for anyone interested, here were the results of a random (used a random number generator) Ft20:

W:20 T:13 L:13

Evidently the computer is not picking randomly.

 

[KDZ]

 

[Zyphox]

hmmmm i don't get this game.

 

[Peckapowa]

Rock, Paper, Scissor: A seemingly simple game. It is all guessing right? 33/33/33?

Wrong. Human-beings are almost incapable of being random. They have patterns and patterns can be learned and further exploited. High level fighting game players should be familiar with this concept.

Even in a simple game like rock, paper, scissor can human tendency be exploited. Random play would suggest you win 33.3% of the time, lose 33.3% of the time, and tie 33.3% of the time, but this does not happen when you play someone (or something...) good at making reads.

Test your 'luck' against a veteran computer designed to adapt to your pattern of play.

My challenge to all of you is to beat the computer in a FT20. It is fun and potentially good practice to help you make better reads).

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/science/rock-paper-scissors.html

Side note:

I feel that as fighting game players understand this concept . Which is why 50/50s or 33/33/33 are not meta breaking, since a player good at making reads (a valued skill) will prevail more often than chance. It rewards smart players who pick up on human tendencies in seeming 'chance' situations. What do you all think?

Post your results! How good are you at making reads? Can you escape batgirls blender of doom!?!

Edit: Try fighting the "veteran" computer in a FT100.... pathetic humans!

FIRST TRY, establish a pattern change, i picked rock first 5/6 times

nvm ft20

 

[Big Pampering]

20-12-11