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Match-up Discussion DS Matchup Chart after a year into IGAU

Crathen

Death is my business
I want to add something to the GL matchup.

I skimmed through, so Idk if this was brought up, but dealing with b13 CRP has an extra option. d1. It will duck under the rocket. I think d3 may work, but I don't remember if it does or not, and I didn't test out to see the post-situation options. I just know it's a possibility, and probably easier to do than just backdash since you're likely aready crouching.
The d1 option is way too strict to be reliable , the best options really are to backdash ( wich isn't hard at all ) and MB F3 ( punishes it if done properly , worst case scenario it gets blocked and DS is +10 ) , d3 doesn't low profile the rocket most likely for the rocket good active frames.

@AVN PTH jonnitti just gonna give a general approach for the MUs:

NW: You can zone him out if you play a reactionary game in escrima , when he's in 1 dash distance stop shooting guns and just play defensive footsies if he wants to be aggressive , when he starts chilling out to whiff punish you can get more opportunities with J3 , f3 / MB F3 and the 50/50s , you usually can go ham when he's knocked down.

When he's in staff don't zone with guns unless you've got a solid lifelead , get into midrange outside his s1 range and mix up your approach , j3 is good but smart NW know that and they'll start using pre emptive j1 / j2 to A2a you and get damage that's when you start mixing up j3 with MB f3 , his mobility doesn't let him move away unless he guesses on a Flying Grayson wich you need to bait at midrange and punish with d2 or at least get some frametraps going with f23 / J3 / f3 , as usual whiff punish w guns at long range , mind his staff pound guessing game gets more risky when you're in j3 range.

Doomsday: You can't zone him for long periods of time , guns will be used only to control his dashes and to build some meter for the eventual MB f3 , MB SS and occasional pushblocks when he gets you cornered. To win this matchup you gotta learn to use DS mixups wisely and cannot J3 for free because air snatch , you've got to pay attention to the Doomsday player patterns and MAKE them want to MB shoulder at midrange , let them burn the meter.
Don't panic when they get trait up and don't shoot guns if he's in 2 characters distance , if he's respecting those in order to punish you can get in and buy time off their trait with 132 or f23xxMB SS ( safe on hit if the last hit is not blocked , otherwise it's punishable ).
Pressure him on wakeup with b1 / b2 and absolutely learn the timing to stuff his wakeups , then you can force him to wakeup with up venom wich is b3 punishable ( both non and MB versions ). He will get in so practice blocking his ES mixups not just d1xxES , also don't panic when you're in the corner knocked down , if they're doing the corner reversal stuff waking up will only get you punished , block and play defense they can't reach you after a blocked ES to get more pressure they have to MB Venom wich is baitable ( jump forward and 323 punish ) or they're gonna body splash / dash.

Raven: Very lame matchup , she can't punish your fullscreen Lgs so stay there and chip her to make some meter , she always wants to be in range to Soul Crush punish LGS , you can reliably punish SC with quickfire / MB quickfire. ALWAYS low profile her Shadow Raven projectile with LGS on reaction.

When she gets trait up and starts doing pillars , don't be afraid to block , as DS you can interrupt pillar into pillar with a reversal quickfire so make her guess from time to time , smart ravens will start waiting for that and that buys you time from her trait and opens up for occasional dashes to get close , if you have a lifelead you make her come to you , don't take too many risky decisions , play lame.

Her best defensive tools at midrange are b23 / lift , nothing too scary , her offense in nothing to write home about , block low , watch out for overheads and be ready to tech throws , DS usual approach w J3 / MB f3 , dash d1 and so on is good when you get her to respect your options, beware of her J2 as it air to air pretty well vs j3 so try to bait that from time to time. Always punish her lift with 132 if you're close enough like after d1xxlift or punish with Flip if she does it from max range or from a b23xxlift.

When you knock her down either stuff her wakeups ( easy ) or cross her up , if she has trait up you want to bait the teleport to punish it.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Also I would like to add that gl can blow up backdashing of his b1,3 with any character by doing b1 mb oa rocket. So backdashing it isnt safe at all now.
Yeah, I know about that. Blocking b1 is somewhat of a mixup...either you get out of the followups completely, or you get hit/get stuck.

@Crathen I didn't find the d1 too strict, tbh. It actually felt about the same as backdashing, for me.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Why do you always play chars that are winning MUs against mine. I'm always at a 4-6 ;_;
Yeah our Smoke mirrors look pretty 4-6. I dunno what to tell you buddy!

KF is a 5-5 IMO and Batgirl is probably just sliiiight advantage Batgirl. Probably enough to say 4-6, but DS has some good options here he just can't jump freely, J3 is not quite as strong. I think his footsies are at least even with hers if not better and his low shots are pretty effective as long as he is not telegraphing them.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
Yeah, I know about that. Blocking b1 is somewhat of a mixup...either you get out of the followups completely, or you get hit/get stuck.

@Crathen I didn't find the d1 too strict, tbh. It actually felt about the same as backdashing, for me.
For me it's way harder to time d1 to go under the RP if i stand block the second of the b13 string wich is usually what you should do when blocking b13 / b12 and buffering backdash puts you standing , and in any case doing a d1 to evade RP just leaves DS in the b1 range again with no frame advantage to stop GL from doing that , backdashing puts him in a better position imo , tbh if Ds has meter he should always MB f3 the RP.
 

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
Also, let's not forget DS's super good backdash in the NW matchup. You can be as little as three character length away and still do low gs and backdash a reversal blast. You can do the same with the mb blast>blast thing. Also, d2 will beat all followups after b2 in Escrima, so there's that to help avoid that mixup.
Exactly what I said earlier, but I'm not relevant so it was ignored.

<3 tym
 
Yeah our Smoke mirrors look pretty 4-6. I dunno what to tell you buddy!

KF is a 5-5 IMO and Batgirl is probably just sliiiight advantage Batgirl. Probably enough to say 4-6, but DS has some good options here he just can't jump freely, J3 is not quite as strong. I think his footsies are at least even with hers if not better and his low shots are pretty effective as long as he is not telegraphing them.
You barely play smoke?
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
thank you so much for the matchup info guys, i haven't gotten around to reading it all in detail but i will get back to you with any questions i have! but efore doing that, I will go through the thread and see if there are any questions you guys asked that I can answer. sorry if i triple post or something i just have a lot to get around to
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
I main Sinestro and I Desthstroke gives me problems. I say it's a 5-5 match up.
This matchup is very much whoever gets the first life lead wins. both characters have a hard time getting huge chunks of damage on each other and the zoning is kinda a stalemate. just keep in mind, at around 2/3 the screen away he can duck under fear blast with low guns, so your best option would be to block low guns and backdash so fear blast wont go over DS when doing low guns. also, pushbo

why do most ds players think he beats ares?
the only time i played against ares ever was against you at DTN. i noticed right away that there are things that give ares trouble right away. first off, in zoning, you can play a very reaction based game easily. whenever you see red shit some big ass projectile come out of ares, just shoot him in the face, it goes away and is much faster. sure ares will go for teleports, but you just have to more so methodically zone and not be so obvious about when you're going to do low guns. i was totally d2ing your teleports on reaction and waiting for it, throwing in low guns where i felt comfortable to take chip. also, i noticed that my d2 beats out a lot of your jump ins. i felt like if we ran that back i could have taken it because in that short set i found a lot of evidence why it would be in my favor. i still want to run it back sometime in tournament :p
 

Vagrant

Champion
why do most ds players think he beats ares?
This is a matchup I admittedly don't have enough experience in and don't give my opinion on.

Can't draw much from our set online since It was obvious I didn't have enough awareness of the matchup and played it far from optimally.
 

Mr Aquaman

Armored Launcher
Administrator
I have played Argenrost, @Vagrant, @G4S J360 , @AVN PTH jonnitti, @Srryimwhte, few others that compete. I have never struggled, and my daily partner plays the character and was one of the pioneers. I personally believe its even. Neither player has an oki in this match, but ds actually can struggle in the corner, a timed mb f3 beats sword spin for 50% and a blocked sword flip ends the same. Full screen it's a guess, ares players can really mess with ds full screen with a few tactics ive tried and love doing. Ds players after playing me long enough realize ares holds low shots, beats DE, hits me out of axe and sword. But if ares can condition the ds to do low shots, guess what? Godsmack inbound. Half life gone into meter build and projectile in bound. Just a couple small things. Just my personal thoughts.
 

L1FTER

Noob
I really need help with the Harley match up. I play Khaotic Biohazzard here in Toronto and he just blows me up so bad. I know people say DS can outzone her but I just don't see it. Some tips would be much appreciated in this match up.