Strategy "Shazam!" -- Captain Marvel General Discussion Thread

[SZSR]

Yep, what's going on @EGP Wonder_Chef ?

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

Yep, what's going on @EGP Wonder_Chef ?

Just curious, realized I didn't know.

 

[Vocket]

I'm sure if this is known but in the corner characters get punished for trying to backdash the grab part of 22~HM. What happens is that after HM whiffs, if the opponents backdash lasts too long, shazam can punish in time with 112. This only works against characters without a fast backdash, which turns out to be a majority of the cast.

Get punished for trying to backdash second hit of 22~HM
Nightwing
Lobo
Joker
Harley Quinn
Martian Manhunter
Zod
Lex
Catwoman
Raven
Ares
Killer Frost
Doomsday
Hawkgirl
Shazam
Green Lantern
Sinestro
Black Adam
Bane

As always, the opponent can backdash the second hit of 22 and the HM won't come out at all. However, opponents can't do this on reaction as 2 is too fast so at least the opponent is forced to guess. I am not sure if the opponent can punish Shazam if they choose to backdash the second hit of 22.

 

[KIllaByte]

Utilizing our pokes into command grabs or Atlas torpedo seems to be godlike.
Does anyone play agsint anyone that consistently punishes whiffed grabs?= off of 2, down 2, or down + 1?
I feel it might be too difficult to do even half of the time, because of the threat of a telpeort cancel, cancelling into torpedo, or not cancelling into anything at all.

 

[mfkaoz]

Streaming some ranked with Shazam right now if anyone wants to hop in!
http://www.twitch.tv/mfkaoz

 

[imblackjames]

Hey guys idk if this is known but b2 tick throws into AC. i know you wont get many chances to do this since the first hit is already overhead but i thought it was interesting to know

 

[Indecisive]

Hey guys idk if this is known but b2 tick throws into AC. i know you wont get many chances to do this since the first hit is already overhead but i thought it was interesting to know

I actually knew that. Thought it was funny as hell.

 

[imblackjames]

I actually knew that. Thought it was funny as hell.

yea its really weird that it does that lol its almost pointless....almost lol

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

F223 also does.

Both useless =[

 

[Indecisive]

F223 also does.

Both useless =[

the F223 one would be more useful if the 3 didnt fucking wiff sometimes.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

the F223 one would be more useful if the 3 didnt fucking wiff sometimes.

yeah it always whiffs on crouchers

@Crathen told me to use F22 xx Torpedo which has totally been hitting, haha.

 

[shinobispectre]

Utilizing our pokes into command grabs or Atlas torpedo seems to be godlike.
Does anyone play agsint anyone that consistently punishes whiffed grabs?= off of 2, down 2, or down + 1?
I feel it might be too difficult to do even half of the time, because of the threat of a telpeort cancel, cancelling into torpedo, or not cancelling into anything at all.

Yes and no. Off of 2,2 and the opponent predicts my HM, he/she crouches premptively and then punishes. Usually inbetween the 2,2 not during the second 2 however. There has been talk of course that reversal attacks beat HM on the 2,2 tick setup, which is... eh.
It's too early to get solid information on this question, not enough people play Shazam consistently for people to understand the punishment times. People still sit there like sitting ducks on b2 HM although more people are using their d1 to interrupt Shazam (evidenced by pimpimjim, Heroic Legacy, Indecisive, often using that setup).
I am still working on consistently using d2 as a tick throw setup. The timing is much faster and I have grow sluggish with relying on 2,2 since people are still falling for it this late in the game.
I barely touch d1 for tick throws, I want to and am working on it for the future. But mainly i just spam d1 during trait and people just panic, it's kind of funny.
Heck I think j3 is looking to be a tick throw setup at times given how you can seeming cancel it into grab during combos, I have to test this however.
The mind games you mention are cool but I feel people still underestimate Shazam and/or do not know the times to interrupt/punish etc. When they start to feel like they get it then those mixups into teleports and other moves come in to mess them up again.

 

[The Great One]

If I had a quarter every time I heard someone quote shazam in a high pitch voice...

 

[shinobispectre]

If I had a quarter every time I heard someone quote shazam in a high pitch voice...

You would have no quarters, I have no idea what you're talking about. *yells shazam in billy batson voice

EDIT: Yeah for real I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[imblackjames]

Yes and no. Off of 2,2 and the opponent predicts my HM, he/she crouches premptively and then punishes. Usually inbetween the 2,2 not during the second 2 however. There has been talk of course that reversal attacks beat HM on the 2,2 tick setup, which is... eh.
It's too early to get solid information on this question, not enough people play Shazam consistently for people to understand the punishment times. People still sit there like sitting ducks on b2 HM although more people are using their d1 to interrupt Shazam (evidenced by pimpimjim, Heroic Legacy, Indecisive, often using that setup).
I am still working on consistently using d2 as a tick throw setup. The timing is much faster and I have grow sluggish with relying on 2,2 since people are still falling for it this late in the game.
I barely touch d1 for tick throws, I want to and am working on it for the future. But mainly i just spam d1 during trait and people just panic, it's kind of funny.
Heck I think j3 is looking to be a tick throw setup at times given how you can seeming cancel it into grab during combos, I have to test this however.
The mind games you mention are cool but I feel people still underestimate Shazam and/or do not know the times to interrupt/punish etc. When they start to feel like they get it then those mixups into teleports and other moves come in to mess them up again.

j3 doesnt tick throw i actually use his d1 into AC because if they see a d1 coming they usually block low and try to counter poke d2 works good for HM just because since shazam stands up at the end of d2 people will stand to punish it.

and at least 50%(if not more) of reversal attacks beat out HM after 2,2 now i havent tried all of everyones attacks but the ones i have been testing beat it out but wont beat out AT so we get stuck with the same problem of back dashers after 2,2

 

[shinobispectre]

j3 doesnt tick throw i actually use his d1 into AC because if they see a d1 coming they usually block low and try to counter poke d2 works good for HM just because since shazam stands up at the end of d2 people will stand to punish it.

and at least 50%(if not more) of reversal attacks beat out HM after 2,2 now i havent tried all of everyones attacks but the ones i have been testing beat it out but wont beat out AT so we get stuck with the same problem of back dashers after 2,2

awwwww. Thank you for the d1 tip, I notice that peoples habits are majority for crouch blocking which sets them up for AC or whatever overhead you can get.
Yeah reversal attacks I guess get throw invuln? Haha maybe just another game bug against Shazam. I hope more people learn the matchup, facing players who get caught by stuff that people have counters is too is fun until I want to get better and stop relying on said gimmicks. If my opponent does not adapt then there is no reason for me too, thus creating a vicious cycle infamous on online play. Mainly my fault so yeah yeah yeah I'm working on it.

As for backdashers on 2,2. Taht is something that should be expected more and more and players continue to grow and develop which is why I try to implement more d2 tick throws and d1. How do you choose to deal with backdashers? If I feel it coming from them I stop after the first 2. Heck I believe the first 2 can be backdashed as well. 0.0

Side note: When I have time, I will try to see what characters cannot avoid the 3 of f2,2,3. Allowing for more tick throw setups in certain matchups.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

j3 doesnt tick throw i actually use his d1 into AC because if they see a d1 coming they usually block low and try to counter poke d2 works good for HM just because since shazam stands up at the end of d2 people will stand to punish it.

and at least 50%(if not more) of reversal attacks beat out HM after 2,2 now i havent tried all of everyones attacks but the ones i have been testing beat it out but wont beat out AT so we get stuck with the same problem of back dashers after 2,2

Every single reversal special move in the game beats hm after 22. There's no real explainable reason as to why this happens....

My only idea is that reversal specials actually have some invincibility (even if it might just be 1 frame) and 22xxhm tick throw only connects on the last active frame of HM.

It's definitely something weird with the system. Maybe I should tag @colt and see if he responds.

 

[imblackjames]

Every single reversal special move in the game beats hm after 22. There's no real explainable reason as to why this happens....

My only idea is that reversal specials actually have some invincibility (even if it might just be 1 frame) and 22xxhm tick throw only connects on the last active frame of HM.

It's definitely something weird with the system. Maybe I should tag @colt and see if he responds.

like i said i only tested it on a couple characters and had it done to me a couple times thats really upsetting but its ok we'll just have to outsmart the other players on the bright side d2 and d1 into command grab (hm) can only be reversaled out of if the character has armor on the move like bane or grundys wc itll catch all other ones so even if they are expecting it and try to reverse attack out of it they cant again i havent tested it against all characters the few i have cant get out of it

awwwww. Thank you for the d1 tip, I notice that peoples habits are majority for crouch blocking which sets them up for AC or whatever overhead you can get.
Yeah reversal attacks I guess get throw invuln? Haha maybe just another game bug against Shazam. I hope more people learn the matchup, facing players who get caught by stuff that people have counters is too is fun until I want to get better and stop relying on said gimmicks. If my opponent does not adapt then there is no reason for me too, thus creating a vicious cycle infamous on online play. Mainly my fault so yeah yeah yeah I'm working on it.

As for backdashers on 2,2. Taht is something that should be expected more and more and players continue to grow and develop which is why I try to implement more d2 tick throws and d1. How do you choose to deal with backdashers? If I feel it coming from them I stop after the first 2. Heck I believe the first 2 can be backdashed as well. 0.0

Side note: When I have time, I will try to see what characters cannot avoid the 3 of f2,2,3. Allowing for more tick throw setups in certain matchups.

i deal with it by mixing up my 2,2 with an atlas torpedo especially because its hard for alot of people to punish it point blank even if they arent back dashing and they block it. the at will catch backdashers

 

[imblackjames]

so anyone with a non attack teleport can get out of the d1/d2 hm set up by reversing with that teleport and hawkgirl can too with w.e

 

[Indecisive]

so anyone with a non attack teleport can get out of the d1/d2 hm set up by reversing with that teleport and hawkgirl can too with w.e

Things like this is why im learning another Character

 

[imblackjames]

Things like this is why im learning another Character

Lol i don't think its that bad its just raven(trait), zatanna, and Ares. I mean its not great but its definitely not that bad d1/2 is kind of hard to react to so you'll still probably catch them

 

[Indecisive]

Lol i don't think its that bad its just raven(trait), zatanna, and Ares. I mean its not great but its definitely not that bad d1/2 is kind of hard to react to so you'll still probably catch them

There are probably more characters that are able to do Reversal Special moves to Negate the Throws.

 

[imblackjames]

There are probably more characters that are able to do Reversal Special moves to Negate the Throws.

I tested it on a couple moves that are known to be throw immune and besides wing evade it still grabbed them...is that what u mean? Lol

 

[Indecisive]

I tested it on a couple moves that are known to be throw immune and besides wing evade it still grabbed them...is that what u mean? Lol

Lighting Kick is another one that has throw Immune. MMH At a certain point in his Orb Animation he is Throw Immune. Im wondering hoe many Characters have moves they can use to avoid the Throw set ups while they are not on Knock down.

 

[imblackjames]

Lighting Kick is another one that has throw Immune. MMH At a certain point in his Orb Animation he is Throw Immune. Im wondering hoe many Characters have moves they can use to avoid the Throw set ups while they are not on Knock down.

Lightning kick gets them out but the orb doesn't