a Tier list because its been a while

[juicepouch]

I feel like Lobo just doesn't have the same get-in as Shazam since Shazam at least has a teleport, Lobo has to get trait out to keep a zoner in his place or use his dash or even mb hook charge but it's all a bit risky imo. Lobo players though may prove me wrong

Shazam's teleport is awful when it comes to using it to get in though

 

[lm Tweakk]

You know, I don't play that many but of the ones I have played....HER VORTEX PISSES ME OFF. And I'm a BG main so that's saying something. Lobo has high damage output which is why he's the best low tier but he doesn't have great options against zoners, or great safe meterless moves etc etc

Ares' damage isn't horrid but his zoning kinda is. He kinda craves meter and his mixups aren't the greatest, his overhead's a bit slow. He's ok but in comparison not really :/

Oh yeah I know, me having an opinion as a part of the fgc? How rude of me

I know, but in comparison though....

Their trait's though, and seriously? Martian is easier to pick up than Batgirl... Teleport, zone, bf3, profit

Batslut is easier than MMH and potentially better IMO , MMH actually has a learning curve , and bane and batman should not be compared to the likes of WW and Supes.

 

[Peckapowa]

Just curious, why do you think GA does well against Flash? I thought Flash was well built against zoning reliant characters? GA strings kind of suck from what I hear so if anyone could abuse that I thought it would be Flash.

savage blast savage blast savage blast savage blast for free can't be punished most of the time, build shitloads of meter, green arrow has an obnoxious hitbox and can play above average keep away with and mixups ice arrow and fire arrows, my friend fullmetal88 could articulate better but i've seen first hand him deconstructing competent flash players, pretty much savage blast

could be a product lack of matchup knowledge but its insanely obnoxious to play against, vs batman he abuses jump back 3 and fire arrows, its pretty obnoxious

 

[RunwayMafia]

You have Killer Frost equal to Catwoman. YOU. GET. IT.

 

[Youphemism]

Shazam's teleport is awful when it comes to using it to get in though

It's invincibility frames are kinda useful but I agree, it's quite slow

Batslut is easier than MMH and potentially better IMO , MMH actually has a learning curve , and bane and batman should not be compared to the likes of WW and Supes.

HAHA WUT, in fact no you have an opinion, please tell me why Martian has a learning curve above teleport zone bf3?

Also batman and bane's traits are problems for a lot of the cast for one

 

[shinobispectre]

http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/injustice/index_customize.html#http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/injustice/index.html?tc=ya0-trjya6i76me86ne6cdcb3ig86k6wa6jzf5k1cgchaagajbi1a8i4ceg8f4g7cfk46oaoaag8a99w6neea9npabc76kltaai4f6cccdg93ke53ie3j8i43l8qa9-bkf-naJeeves-ct999999-c1FFFFFF-c2EEEEEE-tvFF7101-thDD3C3C

I think mine's a little more accurate. My opinion though.

Isn't one of Raven's faults that her wakeup is horrible? Not dropping tiers but I thought she would slide like 1 or 2 slots left. That's cool though. What makes you feel she is well rounded?

 

[Youphemism]

Isn't one of Raven's faults that her wakeup is horrible?

This

 

[BartenderJeeves]

NW better than Deathstroke and Raven and KF better than Superman? Damn... but you have a right to your opinion I'm not going to say 'you are wrong' because you might be right who knows?

TOTALLY forgot about the horizontal arrow. Fixed a few things lol.
http://www.mmcafe.com/tiermaker/injustice/index_customize.html?tc=ya0-tro1abi76me86ngccgcb3ig86ke6ace5eoe8cgafa9c4j7m5abk5cgi8eri8cdk46o6fa6ggad9w6ncaabk9abc76kicaeg9esc9cfg93ke53ie3j8i43l8ga7-bkf-naJeeves-tiTier Chart for Injustice-ct999999-c1FFFFFF-c2EEEEEE-tvFF7101-thDD3C3C-d1Top Tier-x110-d2Low tier-x210-d3Has Faults-x310-d4Well Rounded-x47

I do think Nightwing is a lot better than people make him out to be though.

 

[rev0lver]

lex (please tell me if i am way off)

You're way off

lol

He might do "fine" against some characters but he's not a counter to anyone except possibly hawkgirl from what i've heard. He might have tools to compete decently in some matchups without getting blown up but there's nothing that's really that good. You can take risks against him better than like any other character because he can hardly do anything to you. I really feel like he only had success early because people didn't know the MU and didn't know how to block him. There's no reason why he should be able to hit you with anything unless they're just making really good reads.

 

[BartenderJeeves]

Isn't one of Raven's faults that her wakeup is horrible? Not dropping tiers but I thought she would slide like 1 or 2 slots left. That's cool though. What makes you feel she is well rounded?

Her zoning game and her ability to do full screen combos in trait.

 

[shinobispectre]

It's invincibility frames are kinda useful but I agree, it's quite slow

Right on wakeup the move is amazing. I basically do not have to care about oki shenanigans whatever. Provided I don't use the same teleport over and over again. But it is generally a poor approach tool and the startup and recovery are slow with Shazam more often getting hit out of the startup. It has its uses though a well timed one has opponents hitting the teleport box leaving in blockstun or whatever which is fun.

But I see what you mean when Lobo lacks a decent approach tool. I thought his forward dash was good. Eh it's all up in the air until someone actually shows something decent with the character. Nothing to do but hope someone does something with the character.

 

[Maasik]

BA needs to be moved up and Sinestro needs to be moved down a little. Other than that I'd say it's pretty damn accurate. BA's whiff punishment and keep away are still very good, all while having some of the best meterless damage in the game; he is still a force to be reckoned with. Honestly I won't pretend to know too much about Sinestro but he's just got too many rough MU's to be that high IMO.

 

[Peckapowa]

You're way off

lol

He might do "fine" against some characters but he's not a counter to anyone except possibly hawkgirl from what i've heard. He might have tools to compete decently in some matchups without getting blown up but there's nothing that's really that good. You can take risks against him better than like any other character because he can hardly do anything to you. I really feel like he only had success early because people didn't know the MU and didn't know how to block him. There's no reason why he should be able to hit you with anything unless they're just making really good reads.

fine = 5-5

 

[Peckapowa]

You're way off

lol

He might do "fine" against some characters but he's not a counter to anyone except possibly hawkgirl from what i've heard. He might have tools to compete decently in some matchups without getting blown up but there's nothing that's really that good. You can take risks against him better than like any other character because he can hardly do anything to you. I really feel like he only had success early because people didn't know the MU and didn't know how to block him. There's no reason why he should be able to hit you with anything unless they're just making really good reads.

his biggest flaw is damage, he has better tools imo than a lot of other low tiers

 

[Peckapowa]

BA needs to be moved up and Sinestro needs to be moved down a little. Other than that I'd say it's pretty damn accurate. BA's whiff punishment and keep away are still very good, all while having some of the best meterless damage in the game; he is still a force to be reckoned with. Honestly I won't pretend to know too much about Sinestro but he's just got too many rough MU's to be that high IMO.

black adam is a good run-away, but both his projectiles can be jumped on reaction and his reversal lightning isn't as good anymore, it hurt his zoning and he is solid upclose, sinestro is a good zoner with strong safe footsies and really good anti-air who when he gets his trait becomes super good in every aspect and he controls the game really well, what puts him over the top is his vortex and trait mixups. sinestro is very very good maybe only gets blown up by aqua and martian and not too horribly

 

[Peckapowa]

It's invincibility frames are kinda useful but I agree, it's quite slow

HAHA WUT, in fact no you have an opinion, please tell me why Martian has a learning curve above teleport zone bf3?

Also batman and bane's traits are problems for a lot of the cast for one

zoning with martian is very complex and spacing oriented, and has tons of possibilities making rooms for improvement huge, you can kill people hit by hit and keep them out with pure spacing, that is much more challening than 50 50 guessing games that lead to big damage and free wakeups

 

[THTB]

i feel strongly that martian is a 7-3, and zod is atleas 6.5-3.5, i've heard zatanna is bad but i can see him dominating her in footsies range, how do you feel about raven and cyborg?

I think Raven is 4-6. Her backwalk is annoying, but getting in is pretty much the same as what pretty much the rest of the cast has to deal with. GL can get in fine, and even deal damage along the way if he's smart about his air oas. It's just he's not braindead about advancing is all...he has no "get in" button.

I feel like getting in on Zod is hard, but he sucks so bad at footsies that once you get close enough, it can be hard enough for him, plus GL has some super easy setups to abuse his bad wakeups. From what I've been hearing going on in Florida, Zat is kinda the same deal as Zod, minus the wakeup offense being used. Cyborg I feel is 4-6 now but likely will turn into a 5-5.

MMH, I'm not really sold on yet. There's some ideas I have for fighting MMH that might stop the idea of a 3-7 matchup.

 

[Peckapowa]

I think Raven is 4-6. Her backwalk is annoying, but getting in is pretty much the same as what pretty much the rest of the cast has to deal with. GL can get in fine, and even deal damage along the way if he's smart about his air oas. It's just he's not braindead about advancing is all...he has no "get in" button.

I feel like getting in on Zod is hard, but he sucks so bad at footsies that once you get close enough, it can be hard enough for him, plus GL has some super easy setups to abuse his bad wakeups. From what I've been hearing going on in Florida, Zat is kinda the same deal as Zod, minus the wakeup offense being used. Cyborg I feel is 4-6 now but likely will turn into a 5-5.

MMH, I'm not really sold on yet. There's some ideas I have for fighting MMH that might stop the idea of a 3-7 matchup.

i know but at gl's core vs zod, zod can abuse instant airs and stall for trait and rinse and repeat, if he gets in that situation its over, gl is so dominant up close but zod can end game

 

[Youphemism]

black adam is a good run-away, but both his projectiles can be jumped on reaction and his reversal lightning isn't as good anymore, it hurt his zoning and he is solid upclose, sinestro is a good zoner with strong safe footsies and really good anti-air who when he gets his trait becomes super good in every aspect and he controls the game really well, what puts him over the top is his vortex and trait mixups. sinestro is very very good maybe only gets blown up by aqua and martian and not too horribly

I'm no Wound but you're definitely upplaying Sinestro a bit...his zoning's alright but most of his specials are unsafe and it takes a while for him to get to charge trait...

zoning with martian is very complex and spacing oriented, and has tons of possibilities making rooms for improvement huge, you can kill people hit by hit and keep them out with pure spacing, that is much more challening than 50 50 guessing games that lead to big damage and free wakeups

You only need two or three moves to zone with Martian, db2, dd2 and bf3. Sometimes even trait 3 and orbs but that's not very complex tbh you're just throwing out everything at them lol. And batgirl is upplayed A BIT, her overhead vortex option is -7 so punish it and her low is -2 so d1 check after or whatever. Her vortex doesn't lead to huge amounts of damage really unless you do a combo that gets the opponent out of vortex too

 

[THTB]

i know but at gl's core vs zod, zod can abuse instant airs and stall for trait and rinse and repeat, if he gets in that situation its over, gl is so dominant up close but zod can end game

Zod can't abuse instant airs that much vs GL I don't believe. If the GL is good at picking his spots, MB oa suddenly becomes one of the most fucked up tools in projectile wars.

 

[Youphemism]

Zod can't abuse instant airs that much vs GL I don't believe. If the GL is good at picking his spots, MB oa suddenly becomes one of the most fucked up tools in projectile wars.

Yeah I mean if you're just outside b1 range then just use lift or mb oas rockets....even rocket power to ground him and then you do what you want in YOUR optimum range

 

[rev0lver]

his biggest flaw is damage, he has better tools imo than a lot of other low tiers

i don't see anything though, other than a decent keepaway game which will only really favor him with a good lifelead. his up close game goes from bad to okay when he gets you in the corner, that's it.

 

[Cossner]

That's the point of this, to tell me why I'm wrong.

Ok, I'll repeat it for the 100000th time.
Tier lists should be made based around the amount of good and bad match ups each character has. Not about "how you feel this character is based on some matches here and there". After years and years of playing a fighting game, you can kinda have a feeling of how a character fares against another character using all his tools, playing it at the best possible level, being/against someone who knows that character from tip to toes, and then you set a number.
Once you have those numbers, then you see how well it stacks next to other characters. For example, let's compare Green Arrow and Aquaman. Let's say (not that it is this way, this is just an example), that Green Arrow has 15 bad match ups, and Aquaman has 3. Then you can say that Aquaman is higher in the tier list.
The point of the "Has Faults" and "Well Rounded" parts of the charts, is to say that despite the issues or holes the character has, he still has a tool(s) that help him/her win match ups.
Whatever lists people make will never be correct because:
a) The game is too young. A year is NOTHING in these type of games, and
b) Most people who make the lists don't play ALL the characters, don't know their holes or match up numbers. Most people don't even play offline at a high level (not that you need to but it helps making an informed decision).

Tier lists should be a community effort, but there's an overwhelming amount of (ignorant) people who instead of analyzing a list objectively, they just see a thread and think "well my character loses/beats to that character so he/she's OBVIOUSLY not good/bad". That's totally not the way to go, and that's why these threads lead to nowhere.

he has an unavoidable super reset after 111 on hit.

Sorry for the quality, I just recorded this with the ipad:

Please also note, saying anything Super with Green Arrow is the same as saying "Kano is not bad because his X-Ray is great".

And I thought Grundy did?

Grundy is good.

 

[ShotgunInsanity]

Hes not the best.

 

[Zatoichi]

1. MMH
2. Zod
3. Aquaman

These are the absolute top three characters in my opinion, but only MMH needs a nerf for certain. Zod and Aquaman need minor nerfs.

MMH:

• Overhead Teleport can only come out when Meter Burning regular teleport
• Overhead Teleport has damage scaling
• Overhead Teleport hitbox behind MMH shrinks so opponents who dash forward can avoid it.

These changes to Overhead Teleport would make MMH much more balanced in my opinion.

Zod:

• Trait Grab is slightly negative on block if it isn't already.
  
• Trait lasts 1 second less.
• Slightly less hit advantage on b21

This is all I can think of for Zod.

Aquaman:

• db2 horizontal hitbox is lowered.
  
• db2 tracking becomes similar to Grundy's Swamp Hands; easier to avoid by dashing

db2 would be still useful for anti-zoning, but it won't be as useful for actual zoning anymore. THIS IS FAIR.