Phosferrax
Original Liu Kang cop.
Mb tele ~ back dash though?
Mb tele ~ back dash though?
You actually have to learn combos and setups lol , you try and win with Martian without any knowledge but his special moves and you will get wrecked , idk where your getting this notion of Martian is so beyond broken that you can pick him up in 5 minutes and win with only special moves , but that's retarded. Batgirl is one of the easiest characters in the game by far , and can potentially touch of death you Every time. And this is a tier list , not a competition about who's trait is better , it's based on matchups , and the fact of the matter is that batman goes even with WAY to many people to be compared to WW who buttfucks half the cast. And bane has an ugly ass matchup chart , he has matchups where he gets raped , and he has matchups that he rapes , but no top 5 character should be getting 7-3 by anyone ( flash , zatanna )
Yes on hit
Joker is almost never at a disadvantage vs GA
My tier list was based on the character's toolsets, but I also mentioned that it was hard for me to place everyone definitely into tiers. I have went into practice, studied movelists and played several matches with all of the cast to get used to how they play and what they can do, but obviously by all means I understand I'm not the go-to guy for any or every character. Tier lists are opinion-based, and this is the reason we'll never truly have one that's right.Ok, I'll repeat it for the 100000th time.
Tier lists should be made based around the amount of good and bad match ups each character has. Not about "how you feel this character is based on some matches here and there". After years and years of playing a fighting game, you can kinda have a feeling of how a character fares against another character using all his tools, playing it at the best possible level, being/against someone who knows that character from tip to toes, and then you set a number.
Once you have those numbers, then you see how well it stacks next to other characters. For example, let's compare Green Arrow and Aquaman. Let's say (not that it is this way, this is just an example), that Green Arrow has 15 bad match ups, and Aquaman has 3. Then you can say that Aquaman is higher in the tier list.
The point of the "Has Faults" and "Well Rounded" parts of the charts, is to say that despite the issues or holes the character has, he still has a tool(s) that help him/her win match ups.
Whatever lists people make will never be correct because:
a) The game is too young. A year is NOTHING in these type of games, and
b) Most people who make the lists don't play ALL the characters, don't know their holes or match up numbers. Most people don't even play offline at a high level (not that you need to but it helps making an informed decision).
Tier lists should be a community effort, but there's an overwhelming amount of (ignorant) people who instead of analyzing a list objectively, they just see a thread and think "well my character loses/beats to that character so he/she's OBVIOUSLY not good/bad". That's totally not the way to go, and that's why these threads lead to nowhere.
Sorry for the quality, I just recorded this with the ipad:
Please also note, saying anything Super with Green Arrow is the same as saying "Kano is not bad because his X-Ray is great".
Grundy is good.
I have NEVER been 'wrecked' for using specials since most of them are safe so I don't know where YOU get that from. I'm not just talking about overhead teleport you know, and I don't use bf2 unless it's mid combo. You don't need to use setups to win either, that's my point. You say it should be based on matchups, well im still right since MMH wins more than batgirl. And since when does batgirl 'touch of death' anyone? She struggles to squeeze out damage midscreen, and even if she does its a choice between getting damage but no vortex or vortex but no damage. Her corner damage is high yeah, but how many other characters have high corner damage too? Next to everyone. I think it'd be interesting to know where your opinions are coming from, who do you main?
Still gets beat, or it lands on block and she has to eat the 50/50
That is not even an excuse especially this many months in to the game when it is a character that was not dlc. The character has been fully-explored, has limited tools and has had a few months of success when nobody knew how to play the game. The glory days are long over and the false idea that 'Killer Frost is Top 5' has long dwindled, it is time for the Killer Frost community to adapt
Why do you think that I think she is top 5? That seems to always be your talking point. I think she is probably in a tier with a bunch of characters (10 maybe) right below the S tiers. Associating numbers probably makes less sense in this game than MK because it is pretty balanced and a lot of characters can compete/win. Level up.
I am in-between 5-5 and 4-6 for this MU for Lantern but if you think GL wins the zoning game here you haven't played a good frost.
Trait grab is already super unsafe. I don't remember the exact number but it's at least -14. You can punish with whatever you want.
What about dat arrow spam?
1% arrows don't hurt. Arrow has to use trait arrows and those come in limited quantity before reloading. His zoning is mediocre at best, his upclose game is inferior and in the corner he either clashes and loses super or loses his lifebar,
I main flash and black adam , batgirl has "Damage Potential" because you can be infinitely reset in her vortex. I play every character extensively though. And Martians specials may be safe but using "just specials" is going to get you no where . He is a more difficult character than batgirl.
If you're beating people just randomly throwing out specials then you're playing scrubs
But full screen joker has to get in as gun doesn't work, and once GA gets the lifelead, which he is more likely to come by first, can't it be a real pill trying to get in with Joker?
He doesn't win it but he doesn't lose it.
Potential damage is irrelevant, definite damage is, and Martian gets it both midscreen and in the corner most of the time, Batgirl just gets it in the corner really. Batgirl has to give up her vortex for decent damage midscreen. Anyone can play all characters extensively by putting in a little time, and I already mentionsd that I've been into the lab and played several matches with all the cast myself. Obviously i didn't mean LITERALLY ALL specials, but his combos are easy and most give you free setups and zoning. Batgirls combos require execution and timing whereas most of Martians use 22 a lot (which gives a free mixup through 222/22xxdb1) and dont require so much execution. I dont know why you think Martian's so hard to play, there's a reason everyone else says hes the best and not Batgirl. And Martian can throw out his teleport, batgirl can't. Martian's zoning isn't as slow as batgirls and is more effective and his trait gives him better footsies than batgirl. Inb4 "trait is irrelevant": consider why Aquaman is said to be top tier. Yeah. That.
There is slightly more to it though, even if we do have accurate mu charts.
Not literally JUST specials, but 98% of the time
Just because he has to get in does not mean he loses.
GA has a good anti-air that can definitely deal with joker, whilst I am unaware of Joker's true footsie capabilites GA actually has solid footsie options, not that people would believe it, so I don't see how joker out and out wins in footsies, more explanation is needed here. The damage is an issue but GA's damage comes from zoning and general hit and run which he does very well. GA has better options than most on wake-up to escape jokers bs so that isn't an issue, and again whilst I am unaware of joker's general wall carry off of practical set-ups Ga has good wall carry as well. So the only thing I'm currently seeing is that joker does more damage than arrow.
