Question Was Cyber Sub Zero really as bad as everyone said?

[YOMI MITYEAP]

well dood yah if he jumps high but i mean they are gonna do instant air dive kicks you know and if u tele on that hes gonna land and block / blow u up for trying that lol

Instant dive kicks can be dealt with haha they aint flawless. Either way, I am going with 5 5 for MU. I would need to be convinced otherwise.

 

[RM AtK!]

Instant dive kicks can be dealt with haha they aint flawless. Either way, I am going with 5 5 for MU. I would need to be convinced otherwise.

i never said u cant punish them malik. u can space them out and he can land into b2 heaven ofc. but smokes lack of any kind of jailing and string mixups make it ez for him to get outa pressure with his parry. Also his mixups are pretty good on smokes hitbox. i agree smoke has better pokes though but that parry does reallly get annoying if it's a really good cyber sub that knows how to read when to do it. the startup on that thing is really fast. i honestly think its more of 5.5-4.5 but i could agree 5-5 i guess?
@xSMoKEx dan didnt u say u think its 6-4 also

@edit also remember ex parry is a full combo

 

[NYCj360]

ok i haven't played against CSZ in a long time (not that it matters cuz i play online) but don't u think that Skarlet's daggers and armor also play a big role in the MU? if she can iaD then I think that limits CSZ mobility and zone him out. obviously she can armor through ice ball too. I think him being able to parry slide depends on which string she uses before slide, because I'm pretty sure she gets a guaranteed slide off of her f2121+2 and d4. Not exactly sure if he can parry slide off of those strings. I think the risk/reward is in Skarlet's favor too, if she reads a parry she gets 50% punish and blockstring/mix-up especially on CSZ's large hitbox.

and not to take anything away from CD SR he's a great player and all but there were a lot of things he could've done with Skarlet that I didn't see him doing. @Eddy Wang

Actually the CD senior you've seen on streams is absolute garbage, and by garbage i mean pure shit lol. Just ask @R.E.O. , hes a completely different monster in long sets.

And ice balls should never ever be used in most of csz match ups. Its all about forcing a fight and spacing. Armor must be respected by everyone in the cast so its something you must learn to deal with when fighting skarlett no matter who you play. Daggers are not an issue in a game with dash blocking and dashing under projectiles, an impatient csz will get bodied by good skarlets. The risk reward isn't as skewed as some would think, parry is more for conditioning.

 

[iShinnok03]

Oh, and I forgot, Cyber Sub was Kahball's dinner lol, 9-1 match up at best.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

it makes my pecs rock hard to see mk talk in 2014.

I do agree that Quan loses to CSZ, but i dont think its 7-3. his big thing in this MU is the divekicks. Quan cant do a traditional punish but he can f12 ex rune them. However he can bait that with parry or jump. but quan can dash b3 12 in this scenario. Ive played this MU quite a bit actually against a man known as altaire at @Jimmypotato place but it was more me outplaying him than the character. @Insuperable thoughts?

 

[GuamoKun]

Ehuehuehue

Daily reminder I babied pig in the mirror

 

[Eddy Wang]

I've been fortunate enough to play quite a few good skarlets. Anything out of slide is punishable when not armored. She can bait them for heavy damage as well, both characters have good meterless punishes and have to guess at all times. Csz is one of the few characters in the game that can slow down the pace of rush down like skarlets or cages. His parry is not the end all be all but it is a huge factor in this matchup, both characters must respect the others options, skarlets offensive vs csz defensive options.

Don't thrust your judgement on Skarlet unless you've played Scar or me.
Skarlet can D3 any character in the game after a blocked slide if you don't have a 9f mid hitting string, her low hitbox will force her to go under any string even if she is at -3 after block and let her get away with it, which will leave only 2 options to this , D3 or D1, which D1 is punishable on block, and D3 doesn't get anyone anywhere.
I honestly don't believe this MU is 5-5, when Skarlet use her daggers to cut half of CSZ mobility and wakeup options, can armor nearly everything and can sniff out parries and punish with heavy damage.

ok i haven't played against CSZ in a long time (not that it matters cuz i play online) but don't u think that Skarlet's daggers and armor also play a big role in the MU? if she can iaD then I think that limits CSZ mobility and zone him out. obviously she can armor through ice ball too. I think him being able to parry slide depends on which string she uses before slide, because I'm pretty sure she gets a guaranteed slide off of her f2121+2 and d4. Not exactly sure if he can parry slide off of those strings. I think the risk/reward is in Skarlet's favor too, if she reads a parry she gets 50% punish and blockstring/mix-up especially on CSZ's large hitbox.

and not to take anything away from CD SR he's a great player and all but there were a lot of things he could've done with Skarlet that I didn't see him doing. @Eddy Wang

He can parry anything with a gap after a reset except low attacks or armored slides and slashes, but that doesn't change nothing because he lacks armor, still he won't be able to jump or move because he has to block a D4 everytime single time he gets reseted from 112~rd or anything that ends into red dash, which consequently will be forced into a single guard layer where he will be always at risk by taking his chances, or he blocks a d4 out of every rd, or he interrupts it with something fast, either way, there is always a overhead waiting or another trap that will put her in better conditions to deal with what he might have.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

To be completely honest Usedforglue thought CSz was awesome






......until he went to america

The gimmick of the 3 long haired UK dudes that coulda rocked all 3 retro robot costumes gimmick in a 3v3 was never a thing, much to my disappointment.

He barely used CSZ in the US, lmao.

He also NEVER thought CSZ was awesome. Not to my knowledge anyway.

 

[NYCj360]

Don't thrust your judgement on Skarlet unless you've played Scar or me.
Skarlet can D3 any character in the game after a blocked slide if you don't have a 9f mid hitting string, her low hitbox will force her to go under any string even if she is at -3 after block and let her get away with it, which will leave only 2 options to this , D3 or D1, which D1 is punishable on block, and D3 doesn't get anyone anywhere.
I honestly don't believe this MU is 5-5, when Skarlet use her daggers to cut half of CSZ mobility and wakeup options, can armor nearly everything and can sniff out parries and punish with heavy damage.



He can parry anything with a gap after a reset except low attacks or armored slides and slashes, but that doesn't change nothing because he lacks armor, still he won't be able to jump or move because he has to block a D4 everytime single time he gets reseted from 112~rd or anything that ends into red dash, which consequently will be forced into a single guard layer where he will be always at risk by taking his chances, or he blocks a d4 out of every rd, or he interrupts it with something fast, either way, there is always a overhead waiting or another trap that will put her in better conditions to deal with what he might have.

Im sorry but id have to humbly disagree on the you or scar thing. Like i said, as any player whos has a long set with cd sr and they can validate how good it was. I could go ahead and say that you should not judge the match up unless you've played me but it wouldn't go anywhere. It becomes theory talk if we go into situation for situation, the fact of the matter is that both characters have options that must be respected, my options are pretty safe as well, the one advantage i give skarlet in this is meter building

 

[Eddy Wang]

Im sorry but id have to humbly disagree on the you or scar thing. Like i said, as any player whos haf a long set with cd sr and they can validate how good it was. I could go ahead and say that you should not judge the match up unless you've played me but it wouldn't go anywhere. It becomes theory talk if we go into situation for situation, the fact of the matter is that both characters have options that must be respected, my options are pretty safe as well, the one advantage i give skarlet in this is meter building

What i mean is that Skarlet has better options in this MU, i don't mean to take anything from CD SR, and you're indeed a very good player but, unfortunatly there was a time where Skarlet started really to get developed, he simply disappeared and stop competing, to the fact the the best Skarlet U.S had at that time was Scar, and that was the time where we really knew for sure the placings and in what MU skarlet really struggles, but this isn't one i consider a 5-5 MU.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Actually the CD senior you've seen on streams is absolute garbage, and by garbage i mean pure shit lol. Just ask @R.E.O. , hes a completely different monster in long sets.

And ice balls should never ever be used in most of csz match ups. Its all about forcing a fight and spacing. Armor must be respected by everyone in the cast so its something you must learn to deal with when fighting skarlett no matter who you play. Daggers are not an issue in a game with dash blocking and dashing under projectiles, an impatient csz will get bodied by good skarlets. The risk reward isn't as skewed as some would think, parry is more for conditioning.

this actually shows you know skarlet, lol, i haven't seen this post before, and i have to say you're correct here, now i have to reconsider if this is your current analyses on Skarlet, which of course it would be interesting if i could fight you somehow.

 

[RM AtK!]

Don't thrust your judgement on Skarlet unless you've played Scar or me.
Skarlet can D3 any character in the game after a blocked slide if you don't have a 9f mid hitting string, her low hitbox will force her to go under any string even if she is at -3 after block and let her get away with it, which will leave only 2 options to this , D3 or D1, which D1 is punishable on block, and D3 doesn't get anyone anywhere.
I honestly don't believe this MU is 5-5, when Skarlet use her daggers to cut half of CSZ mobility and wakeup options, can armor nearly everything and can sniff out parries and punish with heavy damage.



He can parry anything with a gap after a reset except low attacks or armored slides and slashes, but that doesn't change nothing because he lacks armor, still he won't be able to jump or move because he has to block a D4 everytime single time he gets reseted from 112~rd or anything that ends into red dash, which consequently will be forced into a single guard layer where he will be always at risk by taking his chances, or he blocks a d4 out of every rd, or he interrupts it with something fast, either way, there is always a overhead waiting or another trap that will put her in better conditions to deal with what he might have.

dood i hate seeing things like this.. dont say something unlesss you've played so and so in these matchup discussions is fucking ignorant cuz it has nothing to do with people. all a matchup discussion is saying ex : IF GOD PLAYED MK9 AND PLAYED AGAINST HIMSELF THE MATCH WOULD BE THIS.... thats all it means. has nothing to do with anyone

 

[xWildx]

Serious question, what makes the Mileena MU a 5-5?

 

[Yoaks]

no

I'm liking every single one of your post because of that Avatar!

 

[Eddy Wang]

dood i hate seeing things like this.. dont say something unlesss you've played so and so in these matchup discussions is fucking ignorant cuz it has nothing to do with people. all a matchup discussion is saying ex : IF GOD PLAYED MK9 AND PLAYED AGAINST HIMSELF THE MATCH WOULD BE THIS.... thats all it means. has nothing to do with anyone

i know i should have expressed myself better, sorry for that, but still i don't think or believe CSZ goes 5-5 with Skarlet.

 

[RM AtK!]

i know i should have expressed myself better, sorry for that, but still i don't think or believe CSZ goes 5-5 with Skarlet.

it's okay i respect that.. btw i wasnt tryin to like BLOW u up or anything it was just i keep seeing ppl say that and it gets me that ppl don't understand what the matchup discussions truely are.

also i could see skarlet being 6-4 but i dont see skarlet blowing him up at all. if anything its a slight adv for skarlet. i really dont see cyber just having a cage/kenshi experience with skarlet or anything. but i could def see 6-4 being a discussion due to daggers anti airing pretty easily into a 18-25% or so reset / into pressure game. but i play skarlet also and until you figure out the cyber subs way of reacting you really have to work hard at conditioning his stupid parry different ways all the time. it does take effort for skarlet to make the matchup in her adv, its def not free. once you get around that retarded parry though the matchup is not too annoying.

 

[ForeverKing]

He is a decent character and he has decent tools, I used him a little bit too and I thought he was a fun character. But when you compare him to characters that have amazing tools like Kabal/Kenshi/Freddy/Sonya/etc

He's really not all that. He's good if tournaments only allowed mid and low tier lol

 

[astronout]

CSZ beats Shang

 

[Drecker]

Pretty shit.

He could run away okay and snipe fools out with divekick shenannies for maybe 20%, but you'd get dicked up 90% of the time. He's unexplored, but pretty booty.

 

[Eddy Wang]

it's okay i respect that.. btw i wasnt tryin to like BLOW u up or anything it was just i keep seeing ppl say that and it gets me that ppl don't understand what the matchup discussions truely are.

also i could see skarlet being 6-4 but i dont see skarlet blowing him up at all. if anything its a slight adv for skarlet. i really dont see cyber just having a cage/kenshi experience with skarlet or anything. but i could def see 6-4 being a discussion due to daggers anti airing pretty easily into a 18-25% or so reset / into pressure game. but i play skarlet also and until you figure out the cyber subs way of reacting you really have to work hard at conditioning his stupid parry different ways all the time. it does take effort for skarlet to make the matchup in her adv, its def not free. once you get around that retarded parry though the matchup is not too annoying.

Surely he will not have a cage experience, that is not how characters look on her matchup chart either. She doesn't dominates anyone ridiculously, but she doesn't lose ridiculously to anyone either. What she has that is unique and special, is her oki game, low hitbox, very high chip damage output, very high damage output, and plenty of armor to make her conditioning meta-game work even better.

As i said before, every parry in this game can't beat out low attacks, sure slide has a glitch that allows to get parried, however, D4, D3, B4, and any other low attack can't.
Not saying that this will be a dominating factor in the game, but given the fact the way Skarlet start her combos, and the way she pressures, she can simply adjust to avoid the parry threat without worring much about it.

 

[Rude]

So do you think Cyber Sub would have been pretty ok if his d3 wasn't - on hit? Like, would that be a minor change that would make a BIG difference? (I think it was. I could be wrong. Oh well. POSTING IT ANYWAY!)

 

[RM AtK!]

Surely he will not have a cage experience, that is not how characters look on her matchup chart either. She doesn't dominates anyone ridiculously, but she doesn't lose ridiculously to anyone either. What she has that is unique and special, is her oki game, low hitbox, very high chip damage output, very high damage output, and plenty of armor to make her conditioning meta-game work even better.

As i said before, every parry in this game can't beat out low attacks, sure slide has a glitch that allows to get parried, however, D4, D3, B4, and any other low attack can't.
Not saying that this will be a dominating factor in the game, but given the fact the way Skarlet start her combos, and the way she pressures, she can simply adjust to avoid the parry threat without worring much about it.

i don't think the parry is 100% of the match i was just stating that a good cyber sub will parry the shit out of you on slightest gaps in your pressure because the startup is so fast on it. i think *if we are talkin about players* the skarlet would do better and better vs the cbz player as the match went on seeing as how the cbz player uses his gimmicks etc

 

[Flagg]

So do you think Cyber Sub would have been pretty ok if his d3 wasn't - on hit? Like, would that be a minor change that would make a BIG difference? (I think it was. I could be wrong. Oh well. POSTING IT ANYWAY!)

I think all he needed was a better teleport. Kitana can throw a fan full screen and you cannot teleport out in time.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

sindel csz 5-5

 

[Flagg]

Hmm I think csz beats Zhang and Mileena.