Breakthrough Possible Martian Block Infinite

[Doombawkz]

But the standing 1 hits high and there's a hole in the string...

The hole isn't punishable, and the standing 1 is 6 frames into 5 frames mid so its not like you have an option to punish it with a d.2.
Its every bit as "infinite" as Joker teeth with a 5 frame gap or MMH's 22b.3, only it doesn't require a set-up.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Another bill of goods...bleh.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

The hole isn't punishable, and the standing 1 is 6 frames into 5 frames mid so its not like you have an option to punish it with a d.2.
Its every bit as "infinite" as Joker teeth with a 5 frame gap or MMH's 22b.3, only it doesn't require a set-up.

There is an immense difference between 11 frames and 5 frames.
You're doing that thing where you get annoying about Bane.
Stop that.
Yes, he can ignore some tech like this (Joker and MM "infinites"), but MOST of the cast can't, making it very valid.
Everyone in the cast can avoid Cyborg's, making it invalid.

 

[Doombawkz]

There is an immense difference between 11 frames and 5 frames.
You're doing that thing where you get annoying about Bane.
Stop that.
Yes, he can ignore some tech like this (Joker and MM "infinites"), but MOST of the cast can't, making it very valid.
Everyone in the cast can avoid Cyborg's, making it invalid.

So what you're saying is something that requires me to both stand in place and press nothing to get caught in is more valid than something I can do on a blockstring out of 113?
Martian has an 8 frame gap in his, Cyborg has less than 6 frames inbetween his high and mid hit. You aren't poking him out of it.
Somehow cyborg's is less valid because what... it starts high? Even though it doesn't have to, it can just as easily start mid in 6 frames.
He can set it up off of most things, 113 is just the one I found easiest to time.
The best you can do is either run or take the damage, just like every other "infinite", only you don't get that option of invincible wake-up out of it like the others do.
Once you hit the corner, you no longer have an option to run. Meanwhile Cyborg is building meter every single time he does it.

And also, just for the sake of it, how do most of the cast get out of it?
I know most of the cast can get out of the orb and Joker set-ups using pushblock.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

So what you're saying is something that requires me to both stand in place and press nothing to get caught in is more valid than something I can do on a blockstring out of 113?

No. There are a plethora of setups for both MM and Joker to get into their infinites that reduce it to a guess for you depending on whether you respect their other options or not.

Martian has an 8 frame gap in his, Cyborg has less than 6 frames inbetween his high and mid hit. You aren't poking him out of it.
Somehow cyborg's is less valid because what... it starts high? Even though it doesn't have to, it can just as easily start mid in 6 frames.
And also, just for the sake of it, how do most of the cast get out of it?

You have to take into account that the first hit is high. That means every character has the option of ducking, broadening the window to 11 frames, and allowing them to simply poke out in that window. This has the added failing of not having any trap placed on the board to restrict their options further, not only can they poke out, but they can cancel their poke into whatever their best punish option is off a d1. Cyborg doesn't have anything else that starts up fast enough at mid (unless I'm mistaken) to produce an inescapable infinite. He had this when the game came out, and it was patched.

 

[Doombawkz]

No. There are a plethora of setups for both MM and Joker to get into their infinites that reduce it to a guess for you depending on whether you respect their other options or not.

You have to take into account that the first hit is high. That means every character has the option of ducking, broadening the window to 11 frames, and allowing them to simply poke out in that window. This has the added failing of not having any trap placed on the board to restrict their options further, not only can they poke out, but they can cancel their poke into whatever their best punish option is off a d1. Cyborg doesn't have anything else that starts up fast enough at mid (unless I'm mistaken) to produce an inescapable infinite. He had this when the game came out, and it was patched.

You don't have to respect Cyborg's options. It doesn't matter, you're still caught in it.

The window isn't 11 frames, but I can tell you don't see how the tech works. Cyborg is at advantage once he finishes the dash. His dash is 15 frames, he still recovers in time to block Superman super from point-blank (something not even Bane can do at -5 on DP). He even trades with it with standing 1. If I had to place a number on it, he is maybe... +2 or +3? Regardless, if you feel they may duck and poke you always have the option of doing a d.1 which keeps you at +2 and comes out in 4-5 frames, but you shouldn't need to too much. The window for countering it honestly is not that high, and if you get hit then Cyborg circumvents the entire issue by doing the same thing as always.

So I mean sure theres the option to do so, but its no worse than MMH's 22b3. He has the options by that point of doing the b.1 or standing 3 as a (roughly) 8 and 9 frame mid hit, with the latter giving him the same vortex over again, and the former giving him about the same thing.

The only difference is it needs no set up compared to the other two, and while it may not matter much to MMH, there are some characters who have literally no options fast enough to contest Cyborg on this one.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

You don't have to respect Cyborg's options. It doesn't matter, you're still caught in it.

The window isn't 11 frames, but I can tell you don't see how the tech works. Cyborg is at advantage once he finishes the dash. His dash is 15 frames, he still recovers in time to block Superman super from point-blank (something not even Bane can do at -5 on DP). He even trades with it with standing 1. If I had to place a number on it, he is maybe... +2 or +3? Regardless, if you feel they may duck and poke you always have the option of doing a d.1 which keeps you at +2 and comes out in 4-5 frames, but you shouldn't need to too much. The window for countering it honestly is not that high, and if you get hit then Cyborg circumvents the entire issue by doing the same thing as always.

So I mean sure theres the option to do so, but its no worse than MMH's 22b3. He has the options by that point of doing the b.1 or standing 3 as a (roughly) 8 and 9 frame mid hit, with the latter giving him the same vortex over again.

I was just using the numbers you gave earlier for the 11 figure.
I see how it works just fine. But this literally was in the original version of the game and got taken out. He does 11, you duck the first and poke out. He goes mid, you still poke out because it's too slow. The d1 cancel advantage isn't high enough for the dash to recover fast enough, so you can poke out there are well. Granted, it's tight frames and tricky, but everyone can deal with it.

 

[Doombawkz]

I was just using the numbers you gave earlier for the 11 figure.
I see how it works just fine. But this literally was in the original version of the game and got taken out. He does 11, you duck the first and poke out. He goes mid, you still poke out because it's too slow. The d1 cancel advantage isn't high enough for the dash to recover fast enough, so you can poke out there are well. Granted, it's tight frames and tricky, but everyone can deal with it.

11 is just the frames if raw. Its really like... 8 or 9 frames at the most, being generous. Not much characters can do about it unless they know exactly what to do and when.
Seeing how it works and understanding the frames are different. It looks a lot worse than it actually is. In reality, you'd have to get pretty damn percise with the few characters who can poke out of it because otherwise the mid is going to win out on the 113. You don't do d.1xxcancel, you just do d.1 and then continue your pressure. Its a checking tool, but its a +15 on hit checking tool.

And sadly no, not everyone can deal with it
However, everyone can also deal with the joker set-ups and MMH set-ups as well (or at least the ones presented).

 

[StevoSuprem0]

11 is just the frames if raw. Its really like... 8 or 9 frames at the most, being generous. Not much characters can do about it unless they know exactly what to do and when.
Seeing how it works and understanding the frames are different. It looks a lot worse than it actually is. In reality, you'd have to get pretty damn percise with the few characters who can poke out of it because otherwise the mid is going to win out on the 113. You don't do d.1xxcancel, you just do d.1 and then continue your pressure. Its a checking tool, but its a +15 on hit checking tool.

And sadly no, not everyone can deal with it
However, everyone can also deal with the joker set-ups and MMH set-ups as well (or at least the ones presented).

Almost every character can d1 out in a 8 frame window at a high level of play, with many able to convert into pretty significant combos. You just need to be familiar with the setup/matchup.
There are characters (most) that literally CANNOT DO ANYTHING about Joker/Martian infinites but sit there and block, or pushblock at a very specific point (which is true of anything block-related in this game so that doesn't really count) or Super (duh). Only 5-6 have other options via parries and fast enough armored moves.
Yes, Cyborg's is easier to get into, but it doesn't hold up. The others are difficult to get into (in that you actually need to use setups rather than naked strings), but do better against the bulk of the cast.

 

[Doombawkz]

Almost every character can d1 out in a 8 frame window at a high level of play, with many able to convert into pretty significant combos. You just need to be familiar with the setup/matchup.
There are characters (most) that literally CANNOT DO ANYTHING about Joker/Martian infinites but sit there and block, or pushblock at a very specific point (which is true of anything block-related in this game so that doesn't really count) or Super (duh). Only 5-6 have other options via parries and fast enough armored moves.
Yes, Cyborg's is easier to get into, but it doesn't hold up. The others are difficult to get into (in that you actually need to use setups rather than naked strings), but do better against the bulk of the cast.

If the Cyborg doesn't d.1 you or convert from there, you still have the issue that you need to be extremely on point to hope to convert out of it. You can't just naked d.1 and expect it to land, you may end up trading which cyborg gets the better part of being +20. Likewise, most set-ups force you to go into crouch out of stagger meaning the timing isn't going to be perfect.
There are characters who cannot do anything about Cyborg infinites too. Your 5-6 estimate is only if you can manage to get the first rep, something that Cyborg doesn't have near as much trouble with.
Yes, Cyborg's is actually possible to get into. MMH, maybe because he has decent orb set-ups.
Joker isn't likely to ever actually do his in a match. Lets be realistic here. If joker gets you to the corner in the first place, you deserve that loss.
You can say the counters as much as you'd like, but at the end of the day there's a constant threat of d.1 which makes the set-up nearly impossible to get out of if it connects.
Plus like... Cyborg doesn't lose nearly as much as Joker does if pushblocked.

I'm just saying, if MMH gets an "infinite" with a 8-frame gap, then Cyborg should get the same levity.
Plus I found a way to decrease the gap to like... 7 frames. This isn't something Cyborg should avidly go for because his kit isn't the best for it, but its something he has and something people need to respect because at the end of the day, if you get HIT by 113xxnova cancel, you won't be getting out of it quite as easily as one might wish.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

If the Cyborg doesn't d.1 you or convert from there, you still have the issue that you need to be extremely on point to hope to convert out of it. You can't just naked d.1 and expect it to land, you may end up trading which cyborg gets the better part of being +20. Likewise, most set-ups force you to go into crouch out of stagger meaning the timing isn't going to be perfect.
There are characters who cannot do anything about Cyborg infinites too. Your 5-6 estimate is only if you can manage to get the first rep, something that Cyborg doesn't have near as much trouble with.
Yes, Cyborg's is actually possible to get into. MMH, maybe because he has decent orb set-ups.
Joker isn't likely to ever actually do his in a match. Lets be realistic here. If joker gets you to the corner in the first place, you deserve that loss.
You can say the counters as much as you'd like, but at the end of the day there's a constant threat of d.1 which makes the set-up nearly impossible to get out of if it connects.
Plus like... Cyborg doesn't lose nearly as much as Joker does if pushblocked.

I'm just saying, if MMH gets an "infinite" with a 8-frame gap, then Cyborg should get the same levity.
Plus I found a way to decrease the gap to like... 7 frames. This isn't something Cyborg should avidly go for because his kit isn't the best for it, but its something he has and something people need to respect because at the end of the day, if you get HIT by 113xxnova cancel, you won't be getting out of it quite as easily as one might wish.

If you're in the corner and pushblock Joker, he doesn't care much. You're still in the corner.
You're not realizing a lot of ways Joker can set his up out of regular BnB shit, midscreen and in the corner.
MMH's is less than an 8f gap. Pretty sure I found one that stuffs CC. Need to re-test when I get time.
It doesn't matter that Cyborg's is hard to escape, it matter that it is, in fact, universally escapeable, regardless of the execution difficulty. It's hard to MB through Joker's with the 1-2 characters that can, yet it's still possible, thus making it less viable against those characters.
But anyways, we're just saying the same crap at each other over and over, so I'm just gonna duck out. Good chat.

 

[Doombawkz]

If you're in the corner and pushblock Joker, he doesn't care much. You're still in the corner.
You're not realizing a lot of ways Joker can set his up out of regular BnB shit, midscreen and in the corner.
MMH's is less than an 8f gap. Pretty sure I found one that stuffs CC. Need to re-test when I get time.
It doesn't matter that Cyborg's is hard to escape, it matter that it is, in fact, universally escapeable, regardless of the execution difficulty. It's hard to MB through Joker's with the 1-2 characters that can, yet it's still possible, thus making it less viable against those characters.
But anyways, we're just saying the same crap at each other over and over, so I'm just gonna duck out. Good chat.

Yeah, pretty much we're just repeating ourselves.
I still need to find my Bane block infinite

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Yeah, pretty much we're just repeating ourselves.
I still need to find my Bane block infinite

Just keep doing d2 xx body press while they're trying to get up...

 

[Doombawkz]

Just keep doing d2 xx body press while they're trying to get up...

b.1 loops in the corner.
5 frame gap. Its an infinite, rite gaiz?

 

[legion666]

If the Cyborg doesn't d.1 you or convert from there, you still have the issue that you need to be extremely on point to hope to convert out of it. You can't just naked d.1 and expect it to land, you may end up trading which cyborg gets the better part of being +20. Likewise, most set-ups force you to go into crouch out of stagger meaning the timing isn't going to be perfect.
There are characters who cannot do anything about Cyborg infinites too. Your 5-6 estimate is only if you can manage to get the first rep, something that Cyborg doesn't have near as much trouble with.
Yes, Cyborg's is actually possible to get into. MMH, maybe because he has decent orb set-ups.
Joker isn't likely to ever actually do his in a match. Lets be realistic here. If joker gets you to the corner in the first place, you deserve that loss.
You can say the counters as much as you'd like, but at the end of the day there's a constant threat of d.1 which makes the set-up nearly impossible to get out of if it connects.
Plus like... Cyborg doesn't lose nearly as much as Joker does if pushblocked.

I'm just saying, if MMH gets an "infinite" with a 8-frame gap, then Cyborg should get the same levity.
Plus I found a way to decrease the gap to like... 7 frames. This isn't something Cyborg should avidly go for because his kit isn't the best for it, but its something he has and something people need to respect because at the end of the day, if you get HIT by 113xxnova cancel, you won't be getting out of it quite as easily as one might wish.

Doomy, I am pretty sure MMH's infinite has nothing to do with 22 b3. This is the shit Dink wrote here and he seems to miss the meaning of the block infinite. His infinite involves Orbs for sure. And @SonicFox5000 already confirmed that there is one. So stop referring to 22b3 as MMH infinite.

 

[Doombawkz]

Doomy, I am pretty sure MMH's infinite has nothing to do with 22 b3. This is the shit Dink wrote here and he seems to miss the meaning of the block infinite. His infinite involves Orbs for sure. And @SonicFox5000 already confirmed that there is one. So stop referring to 22b3 as MMH infinite.

I only have what is presented to go off of. You'll have to excuse me lol. As I said to sonic before, if he wants to post a video I'm all for it but otherwise I just have whats shown to me to work with.

 

[Nonameformedude]

@legion666

Isnt this in the cyborg forums? Relaxed state was doing this in matches at the first top or the food chain I went to

 

[Doombawkz]

Isnt this in the cyborg forums? Relaxed state was doing this in matches at the first top or the food chain I went to

I looked for it but couldn't find it.
@Relaxedstate if you have a moment to verify. All I know is I was fiddling around and was like "Oh... I'm +3 on dashing in... thats nifty."

 

[Relaxedstate]

I looked for it but couldn't find it.
@Relaxedstate if you have a moment to verify. All I know is I was fiddling around and was like "Oh... I'm +3 on dashing in... thats nifty."

Cyborg has no block infinite lol

3SDC is +2 and 113SDC is +1 (in terms of stuffing reversal they can be considered +3 and +2..but that is a mechanic issue)

You are guaranteed a d1 check, which is then +2 and pushes back slightly. Midscreen you can then d1 x2 in a row, in the corner you can d1 x3 in a row (before they start wiffing due to push back).

113xxSDC -113xxSDC or 3xxSDC -3xxSDC, or any variation are not block infinities. It is just block advantage. And the 1 hits high so they have about 10 frames to punish between the dash so it isn't very good block advantage at that (especially since these strings barley open the opponent up to damage.)


The closest thing he has to an infinite is repeat 112 in the corner. There is so much frame advantage that the following high 1 JAILS them stand blocking (IE., they cannot duck). Of course this string is easily interruptible by a full combo punish, and even then it does nothing to launch or open up the opponent since cyborg has no mix up he can offer with all that advantage.

Also the TA frame data is mostly incorrect. Just fyi. Hope this helps!!!
Check out my guide in the cyborg forums I discuss this stuff, despite the guide being kind of old now and I haven't edited it in a while.

 

[Nonameformedude]

Cyborg has no block infinite lol

3SDC is +2 and 113SDC is +1 (in terms of stuffing reversal they can be considered +3 and +2..but that is a mechanic issue)

You are guaranteed a d1 check, which is then +2 and pushes back slightly. Midscreen you can then d1 x2 in a row, in the corner you can d1 x3 in a row (before they start wiffing due to push back).

113xxSDC -113xxSDC or 3xxSDC -3xxSDC, or any variation are not block infinities. It is just block advantage. And the 1 hits high so they have about 10 frames to punish between the dash so it isn't very good block advantage at that (especially since these strings barley open the opponent up to damage.)


The closest thing he has to an infinite is repeat 112 in the corner. There is so much frame advantage that the following high 1 JAILS them stand blocking (IE., they cannot duck). Of course this string is easily interruptible by a full combo punish, and even then it does nothing to launch or open up the opponent since cyborg has no mix up he can offer with all that advantage.

Also the TA frame data is mostly incorrect. Just fyi. Hope this helps!!!
Check out my guide in the cyborg forums I discuss this stuff, despite the guide being kind of old now and I haven't edited it in a while.

It was sonic disruptor cancels, thanks for clarifying. I remember how funny it looked because he wiggles his cannon arm then dashes out of it. BTW do you play only zod now, or do you still use cyborg in some MU's?

 

[Doombawkz]

Cyborg has no block infinite lol

3SDC is +2 and 113SDC is +1 (in terms of stuffing reversal they can be considered +3 and +2..but that is a mechanic issue)

You are guaranteed a d1 check, which is then +2 and pushes back slightly. Midscreen you can then d1 x2 in a row, in the corner you can d1 x3 in a row (before they start wiffing due to push back).

113xxSDC -113xxSDC or 3xxSDC -3xxSDC, or any variation are not block infinities. It is just block advantage. And the 1 hits high so they have about 10 frames to punish between the dash so it isn't very good block advantage at that (especially since these strings barley open the opponent up to damage.)


The closest thing he has to an infinite is repeat 112 in the corner. There is so much frame advantage that the following high 1 JAILS them stand blocking (IE., they cannot duck). Of course this string is easily interruptible by a full combo punish, and even then it does nothing to launch or open up the opponent since cyborg has no mix up he can offer with all that advantage.

Also the TA frame data is mostly incorrect. Just fyi. Hope this helps!!!
Check out my guide in the cyborg forums I discuss this stuff, despite the guide being kind of old now and I haven't edited it in a while.

Well no duh its not a true infinite. I pretty much constantly mention its at least a 7 or 8 frame gap (SDC being sonic disruptor? I usually use nova cancel, I find it gives me an extra + frame or two). I was poking fun at the idea of these blocking infinites when all of the examples given have these frame gaps that can be punished out of. Especially if you read the video description, I even say "I punish 6 frames, does that mean its an infinite now?" or something to that effect.

As for the 1 hitting high, yeah but I've found it a lot harder to punish than advertised. Like with 3xxNBC they were only able to duck as the punch was on its way out. I think I managed it to stuff WW's parry which is 4 frames at one point. So 8 frames, eh... give or take one somewhere. I did 113xxNBC loop to someone offline today, its legitimately hard for some characters to get out of. I think I tried it on a fellow Bane and, barring uppercut, he had no options.

112, I like to mix it in with 113xxTA on hit if I can land it because 112 will combo into it on hit, and set you up with TA advantage on block. My personal go-to combo is like 113xxTA 112 b.3 j.3xxMB nova into another TA set-up. I dunno, cyborg is hella fun but I'm terrible as him haha.

Yeah from what I saw TA is maybe... +40 on block.

 

[Krayzie]

D1 orb works in the corner. Poking out leads to full combo for MMH...

Cant further test... My hitbox broke...

 

[Doombawkz]

D1 orb works in the corner. Poking out leads to full combo for MMH...

Cant further test... My hitbox broke...

Did you do a Sanford?

 

[legion666]

I just thought of Orb, iaj1 2xx Orb, iaj1 2xx Orb etc. I think it works, no time to test now!!!! Soon as I get home!

 

[Relaxedstate]

Well no duh its not a true infinite. I pretty much constantly mention its at least a 7 or 8 frame gap (SDC being sonic disruptor? I usually use nova cancel, I find it gives me an extra + frame or two). I was poking fun at the idea of these blocking infinites when all of the examples given have these frame gaps that can be punished out of. Especially if you read the video description, I even say "I punish 6 frames, does that mean its an infinite now?" or something to that effect.

As for the 1 hitting high, yeah but I've found it a lot harder to punish than advertised. Like with 3xxNBC they were only able to duck as the punch was on its way out. I think I managed it to stuff WW's parry which is 4 frames at one point. So 8 frames, eh... give or take one somewhere. I did 113xxNBC loop to someone offline today, its legitimately hard for some characters to get out of. I think I tried it on a fellow Bane and, barring uppercut, he had no options.

112, I like to mix it in with 113xxTA on hit if I can land it because 112 will combo into it on hit, and set you up with TA advantage on block. My personal go-to combo is like 113xxTA 112 b.3 j.3xxMB nova into another TA set-up. I dunno, cyborg is hella fun but I'm terrible as him haha.

Yeah from what I saw TA is maybe... +40 on block.

Ah I see. Yeah, many of these setups can be poked out of, backdashed (works on cyborgs), or pushblocked. Even then normals do no chip damage.

Also, The sonic cancels and nova cancels give the same advantage actually (although people find the nova cancels easier inputs at first). I like the SDC becasue sometimes I will actually just let it rip, 113xxSD. Then they start respecting it more when you cancel, giving you a few extra frames of mind games because they are afraid you will let it go which would blow up a poke attempt. (Don't do it against characters with full combo d1 punishes like Zod or WW since the risk reward is always in their favor lol)

Here is a pro execution combo for you to work on. 113xxSDC 2xxPFxxMB or even harder 113xxSDC 2xxBouncecancel, B3, J3, J2,3xxPF MB

Try it on Bane (Also 113xxSDC d1xxPF is much easier)