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Video/Tutorial Joker's Block Infinite Breakdown

Cool. Lemme know if I missed anything and I'll add any additional findings to the OP.
Very cool Steavo, now I have posted a thread in....(wait for it) MMH section forums about the possibility of MMH having the same trick, but my execution sucks so I wasn't able to check it yet. What I am interested in is if you know how much advantage do the Teeth give you on block, because in game frame data doesn't have it?And what is the start up of the 2 for Joker?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Very cool Steavo, now I have posted a thread in....(wait for it) MMH section forums about the possibility of MMH having the same trick, but my execution sucks so I wasn't able to check it yet. What I am interested in is if you know how much advantage do the Teeth give you on block, because in game frame data doesn't have it?And what is the start up of the 2 for Joker?
12
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
you mean the 2, right?
Edit: Thanks, do you know the block advantage on Teeth
It's 11 startup frames on the 2 actually, unless the game data is wrong.
Also, I used to know the teeth advantage but I can't quite recall right now. I think it's around 20 frames, but I'll have to re-test it for you.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Yeah, but that's only counting the startup of the hit itself. You also have to account for the jump animation, which eats up a few frames as well. Ordinarily that doesn't make a difference, but here it does because that's the difference between escaping or not. Unless instant jump attacks are buffered and avoid that issue, which would be something I'm simply not aware of.
MMH is the main one I'm concerned about because of how fast his hit and him being able to cancel it out into other moves.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Well, apparently the answer to Joker in the corner is now to simply pray and/or bribe your opponent with DLC codes to get out.
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
he doesnt need it. he needs his 212 to not whiff. he needs his F2 to be an overhead. He needs to be able to move after he releases his gas canister. But this, This is just dumb.
Oh god if 212 didn't whiff on some characters then all would be right with the world.
 
I don't think the travesties that were allowed to stay in MK9 are a good template for what should stay in this game. I'm no fan of infinites, but the systems set in this game (pushblock and such) are designed as a failsafe for when things like this arise. The difficulty in landing this is potentially a reason from this to be allowed to stay, but as a Joker main, I really don't think he needs it. His corner game is plenty dangerous without it and it doesn't do anything to help in some of the other areas he lacks.
I don't think the travesties that were allowed to stay in MK9 are a good template for what should stay in this game. I'm no fan of infinites, but the systems set in this game (pushblock and such) are designed as a failsafe for when things like this arise. The difficulty in landing this is potentially a reason from this to be allowed to stay, but as a Joker main, I really don't think he needs it. His corner game is plenty dangerous without it and it doesn't do anything to help in some of the other areas he lacks.
This so called " infinite " compared to more successful franchises "infinites", makes us look like the girls flag football league ... mk9 has been our most successful game and here we are bashing again ... who doesnt have dangerous corner games ... sup ? dd? hawkgirl ? cyborg ? deathstroke ? ww ? etc etc the joker has never done anything that any of these characters have done , online offline, outerspace and here we go pulling out the nrs nerf stick once again ... lord I cannot wait to get my hands on a copy of usf4
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
This so called " infinite " compared to more successful franchises "infinites", makes us look like the girls flag football league ... mk9 has been our most successful game and here we are bashing again ... who doesnt have dangerous corner games ... sup ? dd? hawkgirl ? cyborg ? deathstroke ? ww ? etc etc the joker has never done anything that any of these characters have done , online offline, outerspace and here we go pulling out the nrs nerf stick once again ... lord I cannot wait to get my hands on a copy of usf4
I'm just discussing it, not saying it should or shouldn't be hotfixed. That's up to NRS. I'm basically saying it doesn't need to be removed, but could be if they so chose to. This character has lost less significant tech to hotfixes in the past couple of weeks...
Also, I feel like you might not know that Joker can GUARANTEED kill you if he opens you up in the corner with about 2 bars of meter (yes, he can do over 100% with unblockable resets, NOT 50/50s) as long as you don't have clash. There is so much tech that this character has, as soon as someone clicks with all of it and has an excellent grasp of his neutral game, he is going to be TERRIFYING to fight against, AND he'll have a block infinite.
TL;DR- We don't know shit.
 
I'm just discussing it, not saying it should or shouldn't be hotfixed. That's up to NRS. I'm basically saying it doesn't need to be removed, but could be if they so chose to. This character has lost less significant tech to hotfixes in the past couple of weeks...
Also, I feel like you might not know that Joker can GUARANTEED kill you if he opens you up in the corner with about 2 bars of meter (yes, he can do over 100% with unblockable resets, NOT 50/50s) as long as you don't have clash. There is so much tech that this character has, as soon as someone clicks with all of it and has an excellent grasp of his neutral game, he is going to be TERRIFYING to fight against, AND he'll have a block infinite.
TL;DR- We don't know shit.
there are vids with tons of characters that can do this that will destroy joker
 

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Speaking of all the corner tech we have, I have already asked this, and after seeing this I will ask my fellow Joker players again:


Is there actually a reason to use this?

I feel like to set it up we have to sacrifice some much better corner reset opportunities AND hope we tricked the opponent into letting us set it up AND hope the opponent doesn't know how to get out (Less likely now that this has been frontpaged).

This setup also gives a lot more chances to escape than some of our unblockable corner resets do while doing less damage and building less meter.

I don't know... I mean I know I've advocated on several occasions that there is no such thing as useless tech, but I cannot realistically imagine a scenario where this is better than going for an OTG setup, SHKD, fast restand corner unblockable or even standing reset/stupid + frame setups.


That said, I need to mess with the midscreen variation. That could maybe have potential.
 
joker at his finest ....
.. you can jump 1 you can push block .. you can meter burn three ... you can tele with some characters you can clash or simply take the combo and people cry about it as if joker is good without it ?:joker::rolleyes: ... ps let grundy touch you once on block
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Speaking of all the corner tech we have, I have already asked this, and after seeing this I will ask my fellow Joker players again:


Is there actually a reason to use this?

I feel like to set it up we have to sacrifice some much better corner reset opportunities AND hope we tricked the opponent into letting us set it up AND hope the opponent doesn't know how to get out (Less likely now that this has been frontpaged).

This setup also gives a lot more chances to escape than some of our unblockable corner resets do while doing less damage and building less meter.

I don't know... I mean I know I've advocated on several occasions that there is no such thing as useless tech, but I cannot realistically imagine a scenario where this is better than going for an OTG setup, SHKD, fast restand corner unblockable or even standing reset/stupid + frame setups.


That said, I need to mess with the midscreen variation. That could maybe have potential.
We'll all of that stuff is on hit, not block. This is on block, and you can convert from this into the other stuff (big damage, SHKD, etc) when you open you're opponent up. So yeah, it probably is worth it, especially considering there are some relatively reasonable ways to get people into this when you make the respect your options. I'm making something tonight/tomorrow to go over punish options once you hit.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
there are vids with tons of characters that can do this that will destroy joker
joker at his finest .... .. you can jump 1 you can push block .. you can meter burn three ... you can tele with some characters you can clash or simply take the combo and people cry about it as if joker is good without it ?:joker::rolleyes: ... ps let grundy touch you once on block
You can't jump 1 and you can't MB through it unless it's faster than 18-19 frames, which not too many are. You can't teleport through it. If you take the combo, you're gonna die. If you clash, I made you clash, so now that's out of the way. If you pushblock, you have to do it precisely at the right hit, and even then you're still in the corner and one bar poorer. No one is crying, but this is more powerful than you're realizing man given all the other things Joker can do in the corner.