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Match-up Discussion Official Deathstroke Match-up Chart v2

ryublaze

Noob
You're mistaken if you think you will react to a MB teleport. You can barely even D1 him without being hit by d1 trait first.
i never said mb tele i said tele. I do think u can still react to his mb tele and safely do d1 spin or jump out, or just block. Ares can possibly bait DS sword flip by doing MB tele and blocking.
 

mVp_Ryon

Who's coming to Ghana?
aquaman vs ds matchup is 5-5 imo. just jump, zone and stay away from him especially at a jump in distance. also punish aquamans d2 on block with 132 strings
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
This. Expecting a move and reacting to a move are two different things.
What about regular teleport? Not his MB one. Is that reactable?

Also, remember when people believed you could react to Killer Frost's overhead? Good times.
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
What about regular teleport? Not his MB one. Is that reactable?

Also, remember when people believed you could react to Killer Frost's overhead? Good times.
Yeah, if I do a regular teleport up close then I deserve to get poked/punished.
 

mVp_Ryon

Who's coming to Ghana?
if you expect it u can punish it but if its a mb teleport he might hit u first since his d1 is faster.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
So it's late and I thought I'd do a knowledge dump on the Ares matchup (My primary training partner is @4x4lo8o, who can help give insight as well)

I will never put MU numbers out there, but I have a strong feeling Deathstroke takes this one pretty convincingly. I have a notebook with me that I use for studying characters and one of the first things I always look for is simply this: How can they punish Low Gunshots?

Well, Ares doesn't have a lot to offer there. The only way he will get a punish is if he's relatively close enough to land a back 1 or down sword, neither of which will grant him that much damage, making the risk/reward pretty skewed. Of course, like any character, Ares can attempt to jump over the shots at range, but now he's guessing and this is in no way character specific. All in all, I would say Ares fares very poorly against Deathstroke's bullets.

The other problem I can foresee is that he simply has no way to approach safely that doesn't involve throwing out a teleport or MB teleport just for the hell of it. His jump will be AA'd, whether it be by d2, sword flip or quick fire, and his ground approach is pretty standard, with only back 1 and godsmack serving as (just okay) extra ground options, neither of which will help him get in on Deathstroke any easier. He simply allows Deathstroke to almost freely build meter by being forced to have to take low shots over and over again since his Dark Energy and his sword lose to them, and his trait axe can be quick fired on reaction from most ranges, which wins since the axe goes away on a trade.

One thing Ares usually has as a plus is his ability to blow up the okizeme game with his mb teleport, but Deathstroke is an oki master who has enders that will even avoid the mb teleport punishes while beating all his other possible options. Simply ending the majority of his combos in 323, 23, jump 3 will be enough to cover any jumping out, backdashing and godsmacks, as well as land in time to avoid any possible mb teleport punish. This allows Deathstroke the option of pressuring Ares pretty freely after a combo, which is a rare thing to have against him. Even in the corner, attempting to meaty with b2 or b1 xx sword spin will cover him trying to teleport on wakeup, and will only grant him the ability to mb teleport far away from you, where he can't get damage. Worse, back 2 or back 1 xx sword spin is hit confirmable in the corner to mb sword spin, where Deathstroke can get around 35%. In the words of Batman, stay down!

Lastly, Ares usually has a hard time getting away with anything xx down sword on block, but Deathstroke can actually get out of it even easier. Deathstroke's space jump is enough to allow him to slip right through the down sword as it is coming out from a down 1, which lets him land a jump 3 combo which can be devastating based on screen position. Once again, the risk/reward is being skewed in Deathstroke's favor on almost every level.

Now of course, Ares one big caveat is that yes, he has a teleport, and as such doing most shots on him is pretty risky. While this is annoying, it really only will silence a part of Deathstroke's game, not the whole of it, which Ares still has a problem with. Being particularly slow does not help Ares when playing the odd shimmy found in Injustice, as he is pretty poor at catching back jumps and back walkers and his own walk and dash speeds are nothing to really special enough to warrant mention. As such, when he can't just teleport in, he's walking and dashing his way in, which means that even for a reduced chip Deathstroke, Ares is still very much playing his game the majority of the time.

So, to give it a TL;DR:

-Ares has little to stop low shots beyond the universal option of simply jumping and teleporting in on read projectiles. This opens up a great source of chip damage and meter build for Deathstroke, as well as being a consistently excellent mid range tool that Ares will have to jump to avoid.

-Has to play Deathstrokes's game on his way in. Ares MB and regular teleports are a bit stronger here but again, more of it relies on reads then actually being a really effective option against Deathstroke specifically.

-Deathstroke's enders allow him to freely pressure Ares on wakeup, even with mb teleport. Which of course means that on knockdowns, Deathstroke reigns again.

-Ares' mixups involving down sword can be jumped out of by Deathstroke, which turns it into a fairly risky option some of the time.

Again, I am not writing down any MU numbers, mainly just contributing my thoughts. I believe that Deathstroke is winning in most aspects of the game and the risk reward is more often than not in his favor for Ares to remain favorable. Plain and simple.
 

ryublaze

Noob
b22~sword spin in the corner is bullshit. Did you realize that on top of beating all my wake ups it also randomly crosses up inputs?

I'll post some longer comments about the match up after SCR
there are a couple of ways Ares can get out
 

Vagrant

Champion
So it's late and I thought I'd do a knowledge dump on the Ares matchup (My primary training partner is @4x4lo8o, who can help give insight as well)

I will never put MU numbers out there, but I have a strong feeling Deathstroke takes this one pretty convincingly. I have a notebook with me that I use for studying characters and one of the first things I always look for is simply this: How can they punish Low Gunshots?

Well, Ares doesn't have a lot to offer there. The only way he will get a punish is if he's relatively close enough to land a back 1 or down sword, neither of which will grant him that much damage, making the risk/reward pretty skewed. Of course, like any character, Ares can attempt to jump over the shots at range, but now he's guessing and this is in no way character specific. All in all, I would say Ares fares very poorly against Deathstroke's bullets.

The other problem I can foresee is that he simply has no way to approach safely that doesn't involve throwing out a teleport or MB teleport just for the hell of it. His jump will be AA'd, whether it be by d2, sword flip or quick fire, and his ground approach is pretty standard, with only back 1 and godsmack serving as (just okay) extra ground options, neither of which will help him get in on Deathstroke any easier. He simply allows Deathstroke to almost freely build meter by being forced to have to take low shots over and over again since his Dark Energy and his sword lose to them, and his trait axe can be quick fired on reaction from most ranges, which wins since the axe goes away on a trade.

One thing Ares usually has as a plus is his ability to blow up the okizeme game with his mb teleport, but Deathstroke is an oki master who has enders that will even avoid the mb teleport punishes while beating all his other possible options. Simply ending the majority of his combos in 323, 23, jump 3 will be enough to cover any jumping out, backdashing and godsmacks, as well as land in time to avoid any possible mb teleport punish. This allows Deathstroke the option of pressuring Ares pretty freely after a combo, which is a rare thing to have against him. Even in the corner, attempting to meaty with b2 or b1 xx sword spin will cover him trying to teleport on wakeup, and will only grant him the ability to mb teleport far away from you, where he can't get damage. Worse, back 2 or back 1 xx sword spin is hit confirmable in the corner to mb sword spin, where Deathstroke can get around 35%. In the words of Batman, stay down!

Lastly, Ares usually has a hard time getting away with anything xx down sword on block, but Deathstroke can actually get out of it even easier. Deathstroke's space jump is enough to allow him to slip right through the down sword as it is coming out from a down 1, which lets him land a jump 3 combo which can be devastating based on screen position. Once again, the risk/reward is being skewed in Deathstroke's favor on almost every level.

Now of course, Ares one big caveat is that yes, he has a teleport, and as such doing most shots on him is pretty risky. While this is annoying, it really only will silence a part of Deathstroke's game, not the whole of it, which Ares still has a problem with. Being particularly slow does not help Ares when playing the odd shimmy found in Injustice, as he is pretty poor at catching back jumps and back walkers and his own walk and dash speeds are nothing to really special enough to warrant mention. As such, when he can't just teleport in, he's walking and dashing his way in, which means that even for a reduced chip Deathstroke, Ares is still very much playing his game the majority of the time.

So, to give it a TL;DR:

-Ares has little to stop low shots beyond the universal option of simply jumping and teleporting in on read projectiles. This opens up a great source of chip damage and meter build for Deathstroke, as well as being a consistently excellent mid range tool that Ares will have to jump to avoid.

-Has to play Deathstrokes's game on his way in. Ares MB and regular teleports are a bit stronger here but again, more of it relies on reads then actually being a really effective option against Deathstroke specifically.

-Deathstroke's enders allow him to freely pressure Ares on wakeup, even with mb teleport. Which of course means that on knockdowns, Deathstroke reigns again.

-Ares' mixups involving down sword can be jumped out of by Deathstroke, which turns it into a fairly risky option some of the time.

Again, I am not writing down any MU numbers, mainly just contributing my thoughts. I believe that Deathstroke is winning in most aspects of the game and the risk reward is more often than not in his favor for Ares to remain favorable. Plain and simple.

This is awesome, nice write up.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
@AVN PTH jonnitti here's the Shazam stuff

i just got around to testing this out earlier today and i havent found a way of getting this to work. if i dash forward and 323 i just whiff in his face and he can just b23 me for damage out the butthole. unless the pc version is just weird and shazam has an extra long backdash or something
 

Crathen

Death is my business
i just got around to testing this out earlier today and i havent found a way of getting this to work. if i dash forward and 323 i just whiff in his face and he can just b23 me for damage out the butthole. unless the pc version is just weird and shazam has an extra long backdash or something
I think you're not delaying your dash long enough , you can't dash immediately because the forward movement will be stopped by 10 frames of shazam just standing there ( because you're +10) , delay it.

100% serious it's a real punish.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
I think you're not delaying your dash long enough , you can't dash immediately because the forward movement will be stopped by 10 frames of shazam just standing there ( because you're +10) , delay it.

100% serious it's a real punish.
okay the best i got now is to have shazam backdash and then block it. its kinda annoying to do it in training mode recording DS do F3 dash up 323 and hope its right lol
 

Crathen

Death is my business
okay the best i got now is to have shazam backdash and then block it. its kinda annoying to do it in training mode recording DS do F3 dash up 323 and hope its right lol
I do it by recording Shazam blocking and then mashing backdash to come out on the first available frames then immediately blocking low.
 

ando1184

Warrior
I've been playing DS for close to a month now and have noticed his B3 is really really good. I haven't seen a thread on this so I thought I would bring it up here. Since he really doesn't advance forward and rears back it can be a used in a counter-like way. What I mean is vs Doomsday I saw slips block his MB up venom and after the block of the first part of the attack Slips B3's and it made the dive kick whiff and DD got combo'd. I have also done this vs Superman after a blocked breath, the breath pushes DS far enough away to where if you do a B3 afterwards it will punish a f2,3 follow up. This has also worked against Grundy mix ups where if you b3 after a blocked D2, trait or 112, trait setup the trait throw completely whiffs and b3 hits em into a combo, even if trait is MB'd. I've only tested this vs these matchups so far, have you guys learned any other scenarios for this tech?


Here's an example of what I mean @ 7:26 into the vid
 

ryublaze

Noob
I've been playing DS for close to a month now and have noticed his B3 is really really good. I haven't seen a thread on this so I thought I would bring it up here. Since he really doesn't advance forward and rears back it can be a used in a counter-like way. What I mean is vs Doomsday I saw slips block his MB up venom and after the block of the first part of the attack Slips B3's and it made the dive kick whiff and DD got combo'd. I have also done this vs Superman after a blocked breath, the breath pushes DS far enough away to where if you do a B3 afterwards it will punish a f2,3 follow up. This has also worked against Grundy mix ups where if you b3 after a blocked D2, trait or 112, trait setup the trait throw completely whiffs and b3 hits em into a combo, even if trait is MB'd. I've only tested this vs these matchups so far, have you guys learned any other scenarios for this tech?


Here's an example of what I mean @ 7:26 into the vid
yea i have posted about the B3 hitbox thingy in the General Discussion thread but no1 responds to me lol. It's pretty kewl but can be risky because on whiff can be punished. I think in some situations DS can just jump back 3 and punish but depends on what move they use.

Edit: might also be better to walk back and punish with d2 or something on reaction.
 
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Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
So, does anyone think that a brand-spanking new, up-to-date Deathstroke match-up chart should exist?