Question Why do so many people think he's #1 or #2?

[Qwark28]

Okay. If Daigo played that character he would never lose. If it's theoretical it means it's possible.

If it's theoretical it means that it hasn't been done yet. For a reason.

Theoretically noone should lose to Kabal because everyone would duck his IAGBs and never have them effect the matchup beyond meter gain.

 

[M2Dave]

Like I said before, learn to defend against him and he has literally no way to open you up, so even if your character is kinda sucky, at least he can't hurt you unless YOU make an obvious mistake.

On the other hand, many characters cannot hurt Aquaman even when he DOES make a mistake. You are assuming every character has Wonder Woman's mix up potential.

 

[cR_whiteboi]

NO OFFENSE BUT THEO WILL MERK YOUR SHIT BAD

slayer calm down on those Caps. OR ELSE!!!

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

If it's theoretical it means that it hasn't been done yet. For a reason.

Theoretically noone should lose to Kabal because everyone would duck his IAGBs and never have them effect the matchup beyond meter gain.

That comparison doesn't work anywhere close to everything I listed about Aquaman.

 

[Qwark28]

That comparison doesn't work anywhere close to everything I listed about Aquaman.

And your view of what should theoretically go down isn't being executed for a reason.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

NO OFFENSE BUT THEO WILL MERK YOUR SHIT BAD

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

And your view of what should theoretically go down isn't being executed for a reason.

Which makes no sense to me. I don't understand why you wouldn't play him the way I listed if you mained him. Theo does it, and I rarely ever see the dude lose. In fact most top players don't punish dashes. And I don't really understand why.

 

[Big Pampering]

Theoretically you should never get hit by naked cyrax nets(that sluggish projectile), but you still do, and if you do you die:tonyt

 

[Qwark28]

Which makes no sense to me. I don't understand why you wouldn't play him the way I listed if you mained him. Theo does it, and I rarely ever see the dude lose. In fact most top players don't punish dashes. And I don't really understand why.

Then Doomsday should never let a dash go unpunished, a jump unpunished, a combo dropped or a shake whiffed.

Theory exists because it's easier to say than do. In theory a good amount of characters should be impossible to get in on and damage because of a good move they can use to start their own momentum and stop someone elses.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

Then Doomsday should never let a dash go unpunished, a jump unpunished, a combo dropped or a shake whiffed.

Theory exists because it's easier to say than do. In theory a good amount of characters should be impossible to get in on and damage because of a good move they can use to start their own momentum and stop someone elses.

That's true about Doomsday though. On defense you shouldn't be able to get in on Doomsday without a projectile or something to make your pressure uncontestable. And on defense I generally don't let people get away with dashes or jumps. You can watch my more recent matches. I understand it's theory but Aquaman has an awful lot to fall back on if he messes up.

 

[THTB]

Okay. If Daigo played that character he would never lose. If it's theoretical it means it's possible.

Theoretically, Kabal should never lose either. But he has.

Theories are just that, theories. And who is to say for sure Daigo would never lose? The man is capable of mistakes, too, and that has been shown.

 

[Syknis]

Problem is I think a lot of people who play more rushdown-oriented characters think that 50-50 is the TOTALITY of the game, and Aquaman is overrated because he doesn't have anything nasty in that department.

And let's be clear, crazy 50-50s ARE a big part of this game, helps make it exciting...but they're not the WHOLE story. Every time you get that 50-50 to begin with, it's because you made a good decision at NEUTRAL first. You got that hit into the combo that sets up your 50-50 because you took a calculated risk at neutral (which may have been very large or very small) and it paid off. Aquaman, of course, has a great neutral game. He may not get the greatest offensive momentum off his reads, but he has an almost unparalleled ability to KEEP the game at neutral where he's usually even or better. That ability even extends to many combos that he's stuck in. Basically the only characters in this game that give AM trouble don't give him trouble because they block well, but because they have great setups AND they give him trouble at neutral. (See: Killer Frost. Frost has (or at least had, when I last played before MMH/Zatanna) a lot of Water-of-Life-resistant resets, but those were all backed up by the threat she posed at neutral to him. Slide was hard for Aquaman to bait and punish and FTD was off the table except as a MAJOR whiff punish because her tracking move was way faster.)

So if you see things purely in terms of paper stats ("oh his overheads/crossups are all seeable, oh he has no standing resets with massive +frames, what's he gonna do, f1 and throw me?"), yeah he kinda sucks from that perspective. But if you think more in terms of player matchups, where people make errors that Aquaman can capitalize on, he's got a lot to work with. I wouldn't call his strength "overwhelming" so much as "extremely well grounded", which I think is a valid approach for HIM in this game, if not for many other characters.

I guess the key to getting down with Aquaman is having a good sense of when you need to play reactively (whiff punish, anti-air, let the other guy move first and WAIT for a mistake) and when you need to FORCE an error by pushing people around a little (f1, b12~DF1 MB, tick throws, the occasional silly Water Shield string). You gotta kinda get down with the idea that advantage in a match is more than just your frame advantage on hit/block or having their face in the dirt. Some people I guess just have more imagination for how to do that with a minimalist character like Aquaman.

In the abstract of theory fighter, everyone blocks/techs/doesn't hit unwise buttons in unsafe situations, and Aquaman sucks. In reality, everybody fucks up or can somehow be MADE to fuck up, and Aquaman has both the punishment and mixup-breaker tools to clean up on those fuckups. Probability is usually on his side. He IS a player's character. An Aquaman player's character, anyway...

You sir are a genius

 

[Tom Brady]

Aquaman is forced to play much different online then he is offline..

Offline: He abuses his superior footsies. He plays on reactions.. You jump? AA.. Dash in? B12 or D1~MB Rush. You play the footsie game? He abuses the range on B1, catching you as you attempt to advance or retreat.

Online: You can jump on him MUCH easier, he is forced to read a jump to make it easier to react to online rather than actually react to it. This causes a lot of jump ins to get blocked because the Aquaman player is hesitant to AA ,which allows pressure. That, or the jump in hits as you attempt to AA and cant get it out fast enough. You also can't properly react to a dash, you have to be looking for it. This allows players to get surprise jump ins when you look for a dash in, and looking for surprise jump ins give players surprise dash ins.

The result? Online Aquaman's defense is cut in half, forcing him to try bullshit online offensive tactics that are nothing more than an Okie-Doke. This is why players dont see how strong he is. Online favors offense more than defense. Judging a defensive, footsie based character from online won't do the character justice. Its because of online that most players look at a character and judge them mainly by their ability to open you up. Aquaman doesn't need to open you up, when you play offense you open yourself up, and thats where Aquaman kills.

His tools may not make him top 2 or maybe not even top 3, but its very hard to keep Aquaman out of the top 5.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Cant we dismiss the OP within the first line as a straw-man argument? Tier lists, podcasts, and the like are not even saying that he´s number 1 or 2.

 

[trustinme]

In another aquaman related topic,how much of a complete cockshaft does he look in his regime costume?
Shave your blonde beard and enjoy yourself.

 

[Big Pampering]

Theoretically, Kabal should never lose either. But he has.

Theories are just that, theories. And who is to say for sure Daigo would never lose? The man is capable of mistakes, too, and that has been shown.

Daigo is actually the prime example of why you shouldnt be talking too much about theories when it comes to fighting games. That guy will Dp you 4 times on knockdown.