So supposedly there's some nerfs coming for the god tier?

[Massive Kano]

That's the buzz, anyway.

So what are you expecting for Raiden?

I'm envisioning the teleport getting the same sort of adjustment Kano's upball did: A couple extra startup frames and six or so extra recovery.

That could be completely off-base, but it's hard to imagine any Raiden balance adjustments that don't touch on the teleport at all.

 

[Somberness]

Teleport recovery, start up, and position can't be changed or some combos won't work. I think they could just make it so Raiden can't block after a teleport for like 30 frames, it will help punishing it for characters that would need to do so by being unsafe. That way, Raiden does not lose anything except a bait tactic.

 

[Raidenwins]

I thought they were going to let the game mature for a while. I can't believe NRS is yielding to all the whiners on message boards and twitters. It's like they say, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".

 

[Ninj]

Quick! Speculate on changes we have no data to make educated guesses on!

Quick! Bash the developers of the game for tweaking the game mechanics to how they feel the game should work, instead of how I, with no game-development experience under my belt, personally believe it should be!

 

[wade dp]

raiden already lost his greatest advantage which is his safe strings ,his b312 and 334 put him in frame disadvantage and he cannot keep the pressure ,i used to play rushing raiden and it was great until the latest patch he became unusable

 

[JennyCage]

All I would like to see is Raiden's teleport be interruptable at startup like everyone else's (except Smoke but you already know how punishable he is on block). This wouldn't interfere with any of his combos and he wouldn't be able to get out of jail free all the time.

 

[M2Dave]

Remove the block traps. Raiden is fine otherwise. Admittedly, the teleport is a badly designed special attack, but if you change it for the worse, Raiden will be bad.

 

[Raidenwins]

Quick! Speculate on changes we have no data to make educated guesses on!

Quick! Bash the developers of the game for tweaking the game mechanics to how they feel the game should work, instead of how I, with no game-development experience under my belt, personally believe it should be!

Not sure who you are referring to here, but I do have 3 years of game development experience under my belt.

 

[Gurrry]

How are we supposed to ever learn new BnB's, create new strategies and learn new ways to use our characters if everytime we find something, NRS is there to yank it away?

If they remove the Sub Zero reset, Ill be driving to NRS's studio to give Ed Boon a knuckle sandwich.

 

[Raidenwins]

All I would like to see is Raiden's teleport be interruptable at startup like everyone else's (except Smoke but you already know how punishable he is on block). This wouldn't interfere with any of his combos and he wouldn't be able to get out of jail free all the time.

Raiden's teleport IS interruptable at startup. You just have to pay attention and be fast. They already took out his frame advantage on his BnB strings, made Electric Fly not only slower but also more punishable on block. It's his teleport that makes him any good. Mess with that and he'd be bottom tier.

I can find something to complain about for any character in the game. Are they going to also nerf Reptile's Elbow Dash? It's too fast and very hard to punish.

Kung Lao's spin is too powerful still. It catches all teleports and jump-ins. NRS, please nerf that too.

Scorpion's Ex-Teleport Punch gives him advantage on block and cannot be punished. NRS, please nerf that too. I am having trouble against it.

Mileena's Ex-Tele Kick is ridiculous, especially when canceled into air Sai Blast. It's almost impossible to punish. NRS, please nerf that too!

Shall I go on? Or shall we all just calm down, stop complaining for a change and give the game some time to evolve?

 

[aj1701]

I thought they were going to let the game mature for a while. I can't believe NRS is yielding to all the whiners on message boards and twitters. It's like they say, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease".

Or maybe the devs see things that they never meant to be possible happening, because, you know, they can't test everything, and they're correcting it?

 

[JennyCage]

Raiden's teleport IS interruptable at startup. You just have to pay attention and be fast.

That's straight up bullshit and you know it. You can't stuff Raiden's teleport with projectiles. He can teleport safely from ANY kind offense. You think Cyrax can do that? You think Cyber can do that? You think Scorpion can do that, or Ermac? Fuck no, they can be knocked out of the startups of their teleports easily. It makes them actually have to use their brain before doing it, unlike Raiden that gets out of jail free constantly.

 

[Lyuben]

Teleport recovery, start up, and position can't be changed or some combos won't work. I think they could just make it so Raiden can't block after a teleport for like 30 frames, it will help punishing it for characters that would need to do so by being unsafe. That way, Raiden does not lose anything except a bait tactic.

Wait a damn second. If he cant block when he teleports and is at -13 or so. Then... him teleporting is just him going to his death!

 

[Peckapowa]

raiden is extremely hard to open a good player up with

 

[Raidenwins]

That's straight up bullshit and you know it. You can't stuff Raiden's teleport with projectiles. He can teleport safely from ANY kind offense. You think Cyrax can do that? You think Cyber can do that? You think Scorpion can do that, or Ermac? Fuck no, they can be knocked out of the startups of their teleports easily. It makes them actually have to use their brain before doing it, unlike Raiden that gets out of jail free constantly.

It's not bullshit. I have the videos to prove it, watch some of my match videos on the Raiden Match Videos thread, specifically against Wu-Renegade. Raiden teleports--> 2,2, into Ice Beam into full combo. Also, I went to a tournament 2 weeks ago where an average Cyrax player was consistently punishing my teleport with an uppercut. I know exactly what I am talking about, I am not some n00b.

Cyraxs's teleport is slower than Raiden's, but Cyrax has easy 50-70% combos. Raiden doesn't. Scorpion has Ex-Teleport Punch which is +frames on block, and a Ground Fire. Ermac has TKS into easy 40% combos and a safe long range punisher. Give Raiden any of those five and I wouldn't mind slowing down his teleport.

Did you watch EVO the other day? Why did JOP switch from Raiden to Johny Cage twice?! Did you see JOP teleport a lot? No, you didn't because at high level play people know how to punish it.

 

[hardwire]

Not sure who you are referring to here, but I do have 3 years of game development experience under my belt.

oh really what game and or company


also i dont think tp is broken i think electric fly needs to be made a little more consistant where the punish range happens

 

[Peckapowa]

if i was making a personal tier list right now riaden would not be included in the s column

 

[JennyCage]

It's not bullshit. I have the videos to prove it, watch some of my match videos on the Raiden Match Videos thread, specifically against Wu-Renegade. Raiden teleports--> 2,2, into Ice Beam into full combo. Also, I went to a tournament 2 weeks ago where an average Cyrax player was consistently punishing my teleport with an uppercut. I know exactly what I am talking about, I am not some n00b.

Yo, you realize there's a distinction between the STARTUP animation and the END position, right? Clearly you DON'T know exactly what you are talking about because Raiden's teleport STARTUP is unstuffable by projectiles AND normals. The only move in the game that might stuff it is Stryker's instant hitscan guns and I'm not even sure about that.

Note that I didn't say his teleport is unpunishable. I said the startup is unpunishable. You can't knock him out of it, therefore it's a GET OUT OF JAIL FREE skill that forces players to play an entirely reactive game against Raiden. It's brainless and you should be ashamed for defending it.

I watched your videos VS Wu-Renegade, not ONCE did he knock you out of your teleport startup (because it's not possible, derp).

 

[M2Dave]

Quick! Bash the developers of the game for tweaking the game mechanics to how they feel the game should work, instead of how I, with no game-development experience under my belt, personally believe it should be!

Collectively, players who invest a lot of time in fighting games know a lot more about the actual game than the developers do. Why do you think Capcom and Namco do location tests in arcades before a Street Fighter or Tekken game is officially released? Why do you think NRS developers attend major fighting game tournaments and ask high level players for feedback?

That's straight up bullshit and you know it. You can't stuff Raiden's teleport with projectiles. He can teleport safely from ANY kind offense. You think Cyrax can do that? You think Cyber can do that? You think Scorpion can do that, or Ermac? Fuck no, they can be knocked out of the startups of their teleports easily. It makes them actually have to use their brain before doing it, unlike Raiden that gets out of jail free constantly.

Cyrax has bombs, net, and by far the most damaging combos in the game.

Cyber Sub Zero has dive kicks and 2,1 and 2,1,1+2 which are +1 on block, I believe.

Scorpion's teleport is slow but provides safe jumps into 50/50 mix ups that cannot be fuzzy guarded.

Ermac has damaging combos and one of the best zoning tools in the game.

You cannot simply compare and contrast teleports. You have to look at the whole character before you jump to conclusions. Raiden has one of the worst fireballs in the game. His offense is above average at best. The teleport (and superman) are supposed to make up for that. Unfortunately, the game has abundant mediocre zoning characters (i.e., Quan Chi, Stryker, Sindel, etc.) whom Raiden beats up. Make these characters better and Raiden will not look as powerful as he is on paper.

 

[Ninj]

Or maybe the devs see things that they never meant to be possible happening, because, you know, they can't test everything, and they're correcting it?

This. What if NRS doesn't want a tier list and in fact wants every character to be on relatively equal footing so that player skill is the determining factor over game mechanics? Weird concept to have all characters on as close to equal footing as possible. I honestly don't know if this next statement is 100% accurate, but it seems to me that SFIV has a dozen or more characters no one plays because they aren't "S-tier". That sounds super fun...

 

[hardwire]

This. What if NRS doesn't want a tier list and in fact wants every character to be on relatively equal footing so that player skill is the determining factor over game mechanics? Weird concept to have all characters on as close to equal footing as possible. I honestly don't know if this next statement is 100% accurate, but it seems to me that SFIV has a dozen or more characters no one plays because they aren't "S-tier". That sounds super fun...

you have no idea how acurate that is

 

[Peckapowa]

This. What if NRS doesn't want a tier list and in fact wants every character to be on relatively equal footing so that player skill is the determining factor over game mechanics? Weird concept to have all characters on as close to equal footing as possible. I honestly don't know if this next statement is 100% accurate, but it seems to me that SFIV has a dozen or more characters no one plays because they aren't "S-tier". That sounds super fun...

clearly ur just numb

 

[Massive Kano]

Quick! Speculate on changes we have no data to make educated guesses on!

Nothing wrong with speculating, as long as you take it for what it is. Perfectly fine way to kill some time on the internet.

 

[Ninj]

you have no idea how acurate that is

Thanks, but I know exactly how accurate it is.

 

[Raidenwins]

Yo, you realize there's a distinction between the STARTUP animation and the END position, right? Clearly you DON'T know exactly what you are talking about because Raiden's teleport STARTUP is unstuffable by projectiles AND normals. The only move in the game that might stuff it is Stryker's instant hitscan guns and I'm not even sure about that.

Note that I didn't say his teleport is unpunishable. I said the startup is unpunishable. You can't knock him out of it, therefore it's a GET OUT OF JAIL FREE skill that forces players to play an entirely reactive game against Raiden. It's brainless and you should be ashamed for defending it.

I watched your videos VS Wu-Renegade, not ONCE did he knock you out of your teleport startup (because it's not possible, derp).

Yeah ok, I wasn't reading carefully, didn't realize you were talking about startup. However, I just browsed through the Match-Ups thread in the Advanced Strategies forum and a couple of people are claiming that you can in fact hit him out of his Teleport startup animation (look at pages 6 & 7). He is only supposed to have invincibility frames on Wake-up (and even that is suspect, some people are claiming he does not).

But let's assume you can't. Why is that an issue? That's the whole point of a fast teleport, is it not? What is more important is that you can punish him after he materializes close to you. He is -11 frames on teleport and -13 under some special conditions. Of course, if you are blocking when he teleports he is at an advantage, but again, that's the whole point of a fast teleport. His game centers around fast teleporting, just as Sub-Zero's centers around freezing you, Scorpion's centers around 50/50 mix-ups after teleport punch and/or Ground Fire, and Ermac's around baiting you into a TKS, and so on.