Match-up Discussion Martian Manhunter Match Up Discussion

[STB Shujinkydink]

Would any of you guys are willing to add me i dont have any man hunters added to fight against. Im on xbox live though.

"STB Shujinkydink" on XBL. I'm not the greatest but I know how to teleport.

So what do you guys think are his worst MUs? So far ive been having trouble with nightwing,frost, DD,AQ and bane.

 

[Red Reaper]

Would any of you guys are willing to add me i dont have any man hunters added to fight against. Im on xbox live though.

I've been meaning to start playing online again, but I'm on PSN.

 

[rpg]

"STB Shujinkydink" on XBL. I'm not the greatest but I know how to teleport.

So what do you guys think are his worst MUs? So far ive been having trouble with nightwing,frost, DD,AQ and bane.

haha ok ill add you as soon as i can.

 

[fr stack]

gonna leave this in here , cause its grundy only : after u hit grundy with a combo finish with bf2 , if u think he will WC on wake up do.. df1b wait till he is near the orb then standing 3 , 22b3. f2d1 db1MB, b3, ji3 db3 , f12 bf2 52% midscreen
replace the f12 bf2 with 22 bf3 MB for 55%

 

[xInfra Deadx]

How in the hell are you guys dealing with Flash? I for the life of me cannot grip this matchup at all and it's pissing me off.

 

[Espio]

How in the hell are you guys dealing with Flash? I for the life of me cannot grip this matchup at all and it's pissing me off.

What's the specific issue? I know he can punish pillars from super far out ranges and you can't really zone him at all unless you've put up a MB orb to restrict his movement.

 

[Immortal]

How in the hell are you guys dealing with Flash? I for the life of me cannot grip this matchup at all and it's pissing me off.

Orbs all day. Most Flash players get impatient after few orbs setup and try to dash throu them to punish which ends pretty badly for them. Don't use pillars in this MU if you must MB one or when you place an orb first, those 40-60% punishes hurts.
Usually this MU is like: orbs, orbs, orbs, trait on get it, trait off get off, orbs, orbs, orbs and repeat. When you get a life lead which will happen if you play carefully, just backdash, relax and wait for him to come and punish. This MU for me is around "who's gonna be impatient first / screw up first".

 

[fr stack]

Orbs all day. Most Flash players get impatient after few orbs setup and try to dash throu them to punish which ends pretty badly for them. Don't use pillars in this MU if you must MB one or when you place an orb first, those 40-60% punishes hurts.
Usually this MU is like: orbs, orbs, orbs, trait on get it, trait off get off, orbs, orbs, orbs and repeat. When you get a life lead which will happen if you play carefully, just backdash, relax and wait for him to come and punish. This MU for me is around "who's gonna be impatient first / screw up first".

this .. meter burn orbs are your best friend in this match

 

[fr stack]

gonna leave this in here , cause its grundy only : after u hit grundy with a combo finish with bf2 , if u think he will WC on wake up do.. df1b wait till he is near the orb then standing 3 , 22b3. f2d1 db1MB, b3, ji3 db3 , f12 bf2 52% midscreen
replace the f12 bf2 with 22 bf3 MB for 55%

got this combo up to 67% midscreen same rules apply but after df1b do, j3 dbMB , ji3 , f2d1 db1 MB , j3 db3 , 22 bf 3 MB ,,, DAT METER USAGE

 

[gpmoney]

whats up MMH ppls. Question for you guys. How is the Nightwing vs MMH matchup? and is anyone interested in running sets on xbl later tonight(at work atm). I've been playing and beating random online MMH but I don't really learn much because they kinda just yolo teleport then not confirm. dont have any MMH in my scene that I know of.

 

[Red Reaper]

whats up MMH ppls. Question for you guys. How is the Nightwing vs MMH matchup? and is anyone interested in running sets on xbl later tonight(at work atm). I've been playing and beating random online MMH but I don't really learn much because they kinda just yolo teleport then not confirm. dont have any MMH in my scene that I know of.

Not on XBL but I treat it as even...

@Sajam uses both characters so he kould give a better opinion on the match up. (He has a habit of downplaying but since he uses them both he has to downplay both of them right?)

 

[Sajam]

whats up MMH ppls. Question for you guys. How is the Nightwing vs MMH matchup? and is anyone interested in running sets on xbl later tonight(at work atm). I've been playing and beating random online MMH but I don't really learn much because they kinda just yolo teleport then not confirm. dont have any MMH in my scene that I know of.

Hit me up, we can play the MU.

 

[YOMIxREEERKING]

Would you guys be apposed to agreeing that mmh has no bad match ups...a lot of my friends say that his WORST mu is 5/5...In my opinion mmh has problems with Bane and Doomsday specifically if your not good at blocking earth shaker...and your options are risky at best in the corner against both...and it might just be me but flash is an interesting match as well...also when I don't feel like running the mirror match I will pick shazam being that after mmh safe tele, billy command grabs for 38 1bar or 47 2bar...

How do you guys feel about my opinion?

And if anyone would like to run a long set to figure out these matchups and discuss them one on one then hmu at YOMIxREEFERKING on xbox.

 

[Red Reaper]

Would you guys be apposed to agreeing that mmh has no bad match ups...a lot of my friends say that his WORST mu is 5/5...In my opinion mmh has problems with Bane and Doomsday specifically if your not good at blocking earth shaker...and your options are risky at best in the corner against both...and it might just be me but flash is an interesting match as well...also when I don't feel like running the mirror match I will pick shazam being that after mmh safe tele, billy command grabs for 38 1bar or 47 2bar...

How do you guys feel about my opinion?

And if anyone would like to run a long set to figure out these matchups and discuss them one on one then hmu at YOMIxREEFERKING on xbox.

In time all his match ups kould end up being at worst 5-5.. I don't think Flash is a bad match up but Jupiter disagrees.

This is of kourse taking into account experience, execution, and other things that fit into playing your best with Martian. Doomsday is pretty dumb in general and MMH has to deal with him just like everyone else.. Bane may not be bad outside of the oki game. Still not sure though.

With that said, Doomsday and Bane are probably the first match ups I worry about with Martian.

 

[gpmoney]

Hit me up, we can play the MU.

Im finally off work >:O lol

 

[Espio]

Flash could be a bad match up. Flash gets punishes on overhead teleport that most characters cannot get for full combo, renders zoning relatively useless unless you burn meter on mb orbs, but he can also use speed dodge on your pillar and meteors when you do this. He can also punish normal pillars from incredibly far out ranges.

There's also nothing to counterzone versus Flash and he deals with our zoning relatively easily. Flash seems to have better footsies string wise too and the only time you can really put him in check footsies wise is when you have trait active, which is the case with most characters that you out footsie with trait.


His fast wake ups seem to be a problem for doing knockdown set ups because they're so fast too and yes you could potentially bait these like any wake up, but that gets into a whole other topic of reads etc. It's just something worth noting especially since Flash's oki from my observations seems to work really well against Manhunter on knockdown.


I hear often to just play footsies with the Flash and I agree. You have to in order to hang with Flash, but the point is he stops you from using a lot of your tools or punishes tools that are normally safe against most of the roster. It just sounds like 4-6 territory, which I dunno why the possibility of him losing a match or two is out of the question or has been taken off the table in the eyes of some.


Doomsday and Bane are both interesting match ups, I'm very curious to see how those develop with him over time. The Doomsday match up is a blast once you get a decent amount of experience, Bane is just annoying though lol.

 

[Krayzie]

Flash could be a bad match up. Flash gets punishes on overhead teleport that most characters cannot get for full combo, renders zoning relatively useless unless you burn meter on mb orbs, but he can also use speed dodge on your pillar and meteors when you do this. He can also punish normal pillars from incredibly far out ranges.

There's also nothing to counterzone versus Flash and he deals with our zoning relatively easily. Flash seems to have better footsies string wise too and the only time you can really put him in check footsies wise is when you have trait active, which is the case with most characters that you out footsie with trait.


His fast wake ups seem to be a problem for doing knockdown set ups because they're so fast too and yes you could potentially bait these like any wake up, but that gets into a whole other topic of reads etc. It's just something worth noting especially since Flash's oki from my observations seems to work really well against Manhunter on knockdown.


I hear often to just play footsies with the Flash and I agree. You have to in order to hang with Flash, but the point is he stops you from using a lot of your tools or punishes tools that are normally safe against most of the roster. It just sounds like 4-6 territory, which I dunno why the possibility of him losing a match or two is out of the question or has been taken off the table in the eyes of some.


Doomsday and Bane are both interesting match ups, I'm very curious to see how those develop with him over time. The Doomsday match up is a blast once you get a decent amount of experience, Bane is just annoying though lol.

I'm starting to just barely figure out the Doomsday match-up. Its all about patience, defense, and optimising on punishing dashes, slow normals like whiffed D1's, and whiffed earthshakers. Doomsday is annoying because hes brain dead... lol

I still need the Bane match-up experience, but I have some theories I'm working on.

I also think Flash is a 5-5, but I do respect the character in this match for sure.

 

[Red Reaper]

Flash could be a bad match up. Flash gets punishes on overhead teleport that most characters cannot get for full combo, renders zoning relatively useless unless you burn meter on mb orbs, but he can also use speed dodge on your pillar and meteors when you do this. He can also punish normal pillars from incredibly far out ranges.

There's also nothing to counterzone versus Flash and he deals with our zoning relatively easily. Flash seems to have better footsies string wise too and the only time you can really put him in check footsies wise is when you have trait active, which is the case with most characters that you out footsie with trait.


His fast wake ups seem to be a problem for doing knockdown set ups because they're so fast too and yes you could potentially bait these like any wake up, but that gets into a whole other topic of reads etc. It's just something worth noting especially since Flash's oki from my observations seems to work really well against Manhunter on knockdown.


I hear often to just play footsies with the Flash and I agree. You have to in order to hang with Flash, but the point is he stops you from using a lot of your tools or punishes tools that are normally safe against most of the roster. It just sounds like 4-6 territory, which I dunno why the possibility of him losing a match or two is out of the question or has been taken off the table in the eyes of some.


Doomsday and Bane are both interesting match ups, I'm very curious to see how those develop with him over time. The Doomsday match up is a blast once you get a decent amount of experience, Bane is just annoying though lol.

How does Flash get a Full Kombo with the overhead and others kan't?

I don't like when people say that other characters out footsie Martian and then add (without trait). If we konsider footsies solely without trait then Martian probably loses the footsie war with everyone..

The oki game might be the main thing Flash has over Martian. On the other hand, Martian has interactable kontrol... along with his good oki..

As a person who has played this match up from both perspectives. I think it's a 5-5.. There's a kouple things running through my mind that might change the match up either way but that's sort of the nature of 5-5's...

I don't see how the Doomsday match up is fun. It's just defense and dealing with yolo BS... As for Bane, I need real (offline) experience against him.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

How does Flash get a Full Kombo with the overhead and others kan't?

He gets a Flying Uppercut for free if Flash blocks it.

 

[Red Reaper]

He gets a Flying Uppercut for free if Flash blocks it.

Yeah. But that's not a full kombo... That's kinda my point.

 

[Espio]

How does Flash get a Full Kombo with the overhead and others kan't?

I don't like when people say that other characters out footsie Martian and then add (without trait). If we konsider footsies solely without trait then Martian probably loses the footsie war with everyone..

The oki game might be the main thing Flash has over Martian. On the other hand, Martian has interactable kontrol... along with his good oki..

As a person who has played this match up from both perspectives. I think it's a 5-5.. There's a kouple things running through my mind that might change the match up either way but that's sort of the nature of 5-5's...

I don't see how the Doomsday match up is fun. It's just defense and dealing with yolo BS... As for Bane, I need real (offline) experience against him.

I typed this before bed and mixed up his lighting charge with uppercut, but either way he still gets a punish on overhead teleport that other characters cannot get, my mistake on that. I shouldn't type things before bed lol.

Now before I begin, I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right or anything like that, but saying it's 5-5 without really any reasons to follow other than you've played it from both sides when someone lists multiple reasons why it would be losing doesn't really make the case it's not losing. I'm honestly just positing points to evolve the discussion beyond what matches bother us or don't bother us. I'm not particularly worried about the Flash match up either I do well in it; however, a match up being 4-6 disadvantage or 5-5 isn't going to worry me either way both are fine match ups. Additionally, Flash has faster mix ups (overhead and low) and he can also speed dodge interactables. As I've said, Manhunter can hang with Flash, but Flash has strong answers for him.

Not every character outfootsies Manhunter without trait on nor am I separating trait from his footsies it's apart of his footsies of course...the fact that Flash limits your zoning and counterzoning heavily is why I emphasize trait cause it's one of his defenses that isn't taken away or limited as much in the match up. I normally don't put a huge focus on it (because it's obviously apart of his footsies and tool set anyway), but for this match I do for the previously stated reasons.

 

[Red Reaper]

I typed this before bed and mixed up his lighting charge with uppercut, but either way he still gets a punish on overhead teleport that other characters cannot get, my mistake on that. I shouldn't type things before bed lol.

Now before I begin, I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right or anything like that, but saying it's 5-5 without really any reasons to follow other than you've played it from both sides when someone lists multiple reasons why it would be losing doesn't really make the case it's not losing. I'm honestly just positing points to evolve the discussion beyond what matches bother us or don't bother us. I'm not particularly worried about the Flash match up either I do well in it; however, a match up being 4-6 disadvantage or 5-5 isn't going to worry me either way both are fine match ups. Additionally, Flash has faster mix ups (overhead and low) and he can also speed dodge interactables. As I've said, Manhunter can hang with Flash, but Flash has strong answers for him.

Not every character outfootsies Manhunter without trait on nor am I separating trait from his footsies it's apart of his footsies of course...the fact that Flash limits your zoning and counterzoning heavily is why I emphasize trait cause it's one of his defenses that isn't taken away or limited as much in the match up. I normally don't put a huge focus on it (because it's obviously apart of his footsies and tool set anyway), but for this match I do for the previously stated reasons.

You're right. I didn't say as much as I should have..

Martian kan beat Flash out of his ranged normals when he has trait. Trait 2 at 12 frames is faster than Flash's 16 frame B2. Once trait runs out a red orb kan buy Martian time to build it back up. During that time you kan build back some meter (even if he avoids your stuff with Speed Dodge). The mix up from checking him at range with 22 when he dashes to him doing a Lightning Charge kan go either way. If Flash is too eager he kan risk a bar along with punishment. If Martian is too eager, he loses his trait as Flash kan dash in and block. However, Martian kan get pressure from this by going into red orb and Martian's floating hitbox kan make it bad for Flash since Flash kan't D1 at his normal range against floaty hitboxes.

 

[Krayzie]

I typed this before bed and mixed up his lighting charge with uppercut, but either way he still gets a punish on overhead teleport that other characters cannot get, my mistake on that. I shouldn't type things before bed lol.

Now before I begin, I'm not saying you're wrong and I'm right or anything like that, but saying it's 5-5 without really any reasons to follow other than you've played it from both sides when someone lists multiple reasons why it would be losing doesn't really make the case it's not losing. I'm honestly just positing points to evolve the discussion beyond what matches bother us or don't bother us. I'm not particularly worried about the Flash match up either I do well in it; however, a match up being 4-6 disadvantage or 5-5 isn't going to worry me either way both are fine match ups. Additionally, Flash has faster mix ups (overhead and low) and he can also speed dodge interactables. As I've said, Manhunter can hang with Flash, but Flash has strong answers for him.

Not every character outfootsies Manhunter without trait on nor am I separating trait from his footsies it's apart of his footsies of course...the fact that Flash limits your zoning and counterzoning heavily is why I emphasize trait cause it's one of his defenses that isn't taken away or limited as much in the match up. I normally don't put a huge focus on it (because it's obviously apart of his footsies and tool set anyway), but for this match I do for the previously stated reasons.

Characters like Flash have a hard time against long range quick footsie tools, and I feel Martian has one of the best if not the best with his trait. Its actually another reason why its not easy getting in on him. Martian crushes his D1 with F2, but flash does limit Martians overhead teleport, but then again, I don't particularly have to play wreckless in that match-up. Both have great tools against each other.

Example:
1. At footsie range, Martian can use standing 2.

2. After push on block, Flash might have advancing advantage.

Feels like an even match-up to me. I think both me and Red have played it from both perspectives... lol

 

[THTB]

Yeah. But that's not a full kombo... That's kinda my point.

If Flash either reads the teleport or blocks it, he gets damage, which a lot of characters can't do. Not to mention, you still put yourself in a bad position by being knocked down in the first place.

That's just from my outside perspective, though.

Also, remember, realistically, Flash footsies don't necessarily end at his strings, considering what MB charge forces on its own.

 

[Red Reaper]

If Flash either reads the teleport or blocks it, he gets damage, which a lot of characters can't do. Not to mention, you still put yourself in a bad position by being knocked down in the first place.

That's just from my outside perspective, though.

Also, remember, realistically, Flash footsies don't necessarily end at his strings, considering what MB charge forces on its own.

Teleport grants a full kombo so it's a risk-reward kinda deal.. As a Martian I'd use it for the komeback potential after konditioning or getting used to their habits.. Overall though, Martian kan win the match without it... Also, you kan tech roll Flying Uppercut and since you're expecting that punish, it's easy to do.


I mentioned MB Charge as well. It's a risk for Flash to use it. A greater risk than Martian using his overhead teleport.. He's risking meter and a full kombo punish.