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Match-up Discussion Shazams true Match up Chart.

Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Static_Slim said:
Remember shazam doesn't need to dash up right into your face to catch you with HM anymore.If you start to jump back or backdash I can just torpedo MB which gives me like 4 options after, I can either cross you up, go for HM or AC, grab or continue pressure.You probably won't wake up with the flower because of the threat of the cross up which I can get 51% if I land it.Also Joker only can punish torpedo if its done from a distance, like most characters.Also you can delay gunshots which slightly more effective it just means I need to be more patient when trying to close in.Compared to characters like Raven, Sinestro, and Deathstroke it 's not that tough.
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The gunshot delaying is only when you're trying to antizone with that weird lightning hitbox. Gunshot will not be delayed in regular zoning, gunshot is indeed easy to duck and dash but that is why teeth exist, it still is a zoning advantage for Joker, up close it can be even and in the corner Joker prevails. If it was not for the corner than I would say 5-5 but the crowbar buffs were a massive help vs Shazam/Ares

Unlike Sinestro and Raven, Joker has a close up game, a wakeup game unlike Raven ( in normal stance ) and unlike Sinestro ( unless traited, temporary and a waste of trait shots ).

D2 is also an excelent keepaway tool which grants full combo, can set up teeth, anti air and compliments his J2/3 quite well.
 
Ermaculate_Slim

Ermaculate_Slim

We are Many but we didnt make MK11 not one
Qwark28 said:
The gunshot delaying is only when you're trying to antizone with that weird lightning hitbox. Gunshot will not be delayed in regular zoning, gunshot is indeed easy to duck and dash but that is why teeth exist, it still is a zoning advantage for Joker, up close it can be even and in the corner Joker prevails. If it was not for the corner than I would say 5-5 but the crowbar buffs were a massive help vs Shazam/Ares

Unlike Sinestro and Raven, Joker has a close up game, a wakeup game unlike Raven ( in normal stance ) and unlike Sinestro ( unless traited, temporary and a waste of trait shots ).

D2 is also an excelent keepaway tool which grants full combo, can set up teeth, anti air and compliments his J2/3 quite well.
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Yea I was just comparing their zoning to joker's but yea I see your point.
 
MashPotatoTower

MashPotatoTower

Champion
Okay guys give me the run down. Why is DS vr Shazam 6-4 DS? I think your all crazy crazy peeps to think so and I wanna know what's the trouble so I can be all know-it-all and snobby about it
 
MashPotatoTower

MashPotatoTower

Champion
rev0lver said:
Shazam beats Lex. idk how you guys play it but there's a lot to exploit
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I have suspected maybe so, but i consider it more or less even. Shazam gets around his zoning and traps more effectively than he does with MMH. teleport can be really abusive in the MU. You agree? What kinda stuff do we exploit that's so bad for him in your opinion? His wake ups?
 
rev0lver

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
MashPotatoTower said:
I have suspected maybe so, but i consider it more or less even. Shazam gets around his zoning and traps more effectively than he does with MMH. teleport can be really abusive in the MU. You agree? What kinda stuff do we exploit that's so bad for him in your opinion? His wake ups?
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Just the fact that he can get out of almost everything and torpedo mixups can help a lot against trait.

Also i dont remember but I don't think he can duck something. It might be Shazam's best MU.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
rev0lver said:
Just the fact that he can get out of almost everything and torpedo mixups can help a lot against trait.

Also i dont remember but I don't think he can duck something. It might be Shazam's best MU.
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b2 can go over mines i think, and if you get decent with the timing, d1 links to HM for a 40% combo, that really shreds lex when hes trying to get traps and stuff out.
 
MashPotatoTower

MashPotatoTower

Champion
smokey said:
b2 can go over mines i think, and if you get decent with the timing, d1 links to HM for a 40% combo, that really shreds lex when hes trying to get traps and stuff out.
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D1 HM linking??! What in the how? only from a juggle can you d1 into HM, unless your talking about tick throws on block
 
MashPotatoTower

MashPotatoTower

Champion
rev0lver said:
Just the fact that he can get out of almost everything and torpedo mixups can help a lot against trait.

Also i dont remember but I don't think he can duck something. It might be Shazam's best MU.
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This true, also no one ever complains about how Shazam can back dash out of most of his problems. It's big on rushdown that doesn't advance on you like f23
Bane or DD gotta be his worst MU. Like what does bane do with his armor, meter, or knockdowns? How does he get in? how does he get around his superior grappling game?Me giving it a 6-4 is giving the players the benefit of the doubt.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
MashPotatoTower said:
D1 HM linking??! What in the how? only from a juggle can you d1 into HM, unless your talking about tick throws on block
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D1 on hit links into HM, its like 1-2 frame link though but they cant duck it. Its a link not a cancel.

You can also link HM off 11 on hit and possibly a few other normals, but i only really go for the d1 and the 11. 11 punish into HM gives him a lot more damage than he usually has with like 112~atlas
 
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Indecisive

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
MashPotatoTower said:
Okay guys give me the run down. Why is DS vr Shazam 6-4 DS? I think your all crazy crazy peeps to think so and I wanna know what's the trouble so I can be all know-it-all and snobby about it
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The reason it is a 6-4 is many reasons actually. DS has WU game to stops a lot of shazams game. The zoning is troublesome as you cant really teleport through it. DS also has normals that make him avoid the Command grabs cause he leans lazy to the left a bit. His JI 3 is good. :p. But ya those are some of the reasons. Mostly the zoning.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
xKhaoTik said:
Lol at shazam going even with Frost. Cute.
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With the range change to his low grab im pretty sure he can grab her from slide like half screen away... but yeah this match is a pain in the arse as she can slide wakeup teleports on reaction and if its blocked, who really cares :p
 
MashPotatoTower

MashPotatoTower

Champion
AK Glass_Sword said:
No what he is talking about is on hit if you do hm on the frame after you hit them they can't duck only back dash. It is mad hard to do. Impossible online.
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smokey said:
D1 on hit links into HM, its like 1-2 frame link though but they cant duck it. Its a link not a cancel.

You can also link HM off 11 on hit and possibly a few other normals, but i only really go for the d1 and the 11. 11 punish into HM gives him a lot more damage than he usually has with like 112~atlas
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interesting..
 
MashPotatoTower

MashPotatoTower

Champion
ISF_AWG_Indecisive said:
The reason it is a 6-4 is many reasons actually. DS has WU game to stops a lot of shazams game. The zoning is troublesome as you cant really teleport through it. DS also has normals that make him avoid the Command grabs cause he leans lazy to the left a bit. His JI 3 is good. :p. But ya those are some of the reasons. Mostly the zoning.
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I dont buy this crap at all. Shazam has a fantastic forward dash and can punish gunshots with massive damage from mid screen with b2 easily. So what if he can destroy teleporting in, Shazam just has to work his way in like everyone else in which he has an easier time than most everybody gets to. Gun shot does nothing on chip and is an awful trade against thunder bolt which says something in itself. He only needs to dash in once from full screen to be in gun punishing game winning range. DS zoning hasn't been a thing for several months now
 
Indecisive

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
MashPotatoTower said:
I dont buy this crap at all. Shazam has a fantastic forward dash and can punish gunshots with massive damage from mid screen with b2 easily. So what if he can destroy teleporting in, Shazam just has to work his way in like everyone else in which he has an easier time than most everybody gets to. Gun shot does nothing on chip and is an awful trade against thunder bolt which says something in itself. He only needs to dash in once from full screen to be in gun punishing game winning range. DS zoning hasn't been a thing for several months now
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I have been considering it to be a 5 5 as lately. But need to play the MU more.
 
MashPotatoTower

MashPotatoTower

Champion
Doombawkz said:
Bane doesn't need his armor or knockdowns. He just does double your damage at half the cost, and then does it again... and again. And then laughs as you are forced to wake-up teleport because nothing else you have works.

Its 5-5, just because Bane has better tools doesn't mean he has to use them all. Don't forget, he has a better backdash than Shazam too, and f.2.d auto-pilot is too sausy.
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no:coffee:
 
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