Match-up Discussion Green Arrow In Depth Match Up Discussion (1.06)

[Duck Nation]

I use MB stinger all the fucking time. It's generally useful. But it hasn't really done much outside of making him only slightly generally better. His tools are still weak, his damage is still low compared to what it costs him (multiple bars of meter, loaded trait arrows), and he still loses to the same things he always has. At the end of the day he's still fighting uphill and I don't think anybody disagrees with that.

TigerBombs brings up something interesting - pretty much everybody thinks they beat Green Arrow anyways, generally matching up to the chart Jimmy made, but they also declare Green Arrow is good. I think everyone just feels that their character has the rare match that's advantage over him, rather than it actually just basically being everybody. People's lack of Arrow knowledge and some tournament representation by excellent players seems to have warped perceptions of how mediocre he really is.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Jimmypotato

I heard the podcast you did and just wanted to give some info on aquaman. Your main problems with the match from what you mentioned were that you cant load arrows and d1 arrow gets blown up.I'm just going to post some things I do in the match to help in these area's.

For d1 Arrow to work you have to make aquaman respect d1 savage blast. Even if he blocks the savage blast you still do chip, build meter and get +4 advantage from a good position. If it hit's you score a knockdown and deal about 9%. Aquaman players will stop mashing if they eat a lot of savage blasts which will open up d1 arrow. In a desperate situation you can even d1 xx mb b3.

For loading arrows safely outside of advantage and knockdown situations you just have to be patient. When Aquaman uses his trident spike move he's at -20. At - 20 that gives you time to shoot a standing arrow or dash forward, arrows dash seems to be about 17-18 frames long. If you dash in and neutral jump after blocking the first trident any 2nd attempt at a it will let you land and load an arrow 100% safe. If he doesn't do another one you are pretty much safe from anything.

This should help change the way any aquaman thinks in the match which will open up more options for arrow. Hope this helps.

I honestly don't think aquaman is his worst match. I would say a character like MMH should have that title.

 

[Scoot Magee]

There aren't that many characters that even punish trident anyway.

Blocked soul crush = MB stinger on block, which is at least something to work with.

GL lift is punished by reversal stinger.

This is a total pain in the ass on alternate controls.

 

[Deleted member 28105]

In regards to the Black Adam matchup.

1. How do I punish dive kicks?
2. How do I beat full screen dive kicks with jump 3? Do I have to jump backwards?

 

[Scoot Magee]

Anyone know the Raven match up? I just got done playing Glass Sword and I have no idea how to approach this character. I'm pretty much always respecting that grab thing especially with trait on. When she activates trait I felt my best bet was to just deal with the chip damage while she builds meter...

It pretty much boiled down to me chasing her around the screen while constantly respecting the force grab. If I got in I would just get push blocked out and have to get in again allowing more time for her trait to recharge. not only that but her back walk is fast and I'm scared to dash at all times.

 

[THTB]

This is a total pain in the ass on alternate controls.

Why alternate controls is booty buttcheeks...lol...

 

[Jimmypotato]

Jimmypotato

I heard the podcast you did and just wanted to give some info on aquaman. Your main problems with the match from what you mentioned were that you cant load arrows and d1 arrow gets blown up.I'm just going to post some things I do in the match to help in these area's.

For d1 Arrow to work you have to make aquaman respect d1 savage blast. Even if he blocks the savage blast you still do chip, build meter and get +4 advantage from a good position. If it hit's you score a knockdown and deal about 9%. Aquaman players will stop mashing if they eat a lot of savage blasts which will open up d1 arrow. In a desperate situation you can even d1 xx mb b3.

For loading arrows safely outside of advantage and knockdown situations you just have to be patient. When Aquaman uses his trident spike move he's at -20. At - 20 that gives you time to shoot a standing arrow or dash forward, arrows dash seems to be about 17-18 frames long. If you dash in and neutral jump after blocking the first trident any 2nd attempt at a it will let you land and load an arrow 100% safe. If he doesn't do another one you are pretty much safe from anything.

This should help change the way any aquaman thinks in the match which will open up more options for arrow. Hope this helps.

I honestly don't think aquaman is his worst match. I would say a character like MMH should have that title.

Yes you pretty much have to do D1 savage blast if you want a 7frame poke option. Which you pretty much need because AMans crazy fast pokes and ranges shut Arrow down. Any thing else can just be blown up by 6frame d1 with insane range, or his 7frame d2 with crazy range.

When I do play the match, I do try to be patient basically waiting for him to check me with FTD before I can think about dashing in to try get some pressure and open him up.

I mean, MMH is probably worse for sure, I just don't have as much experience with MMH.

Thanks for the tips though.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Why alternate controls is booty buttcheeks...lol...

I get too many accidental moves in normal controls. My d1 always turns into sky alert.

 

[SimSim]

I get too many accidental moves in normal controls. My d1 always turns into sky alert.

Green Arrow is by far the character I have most problems with on normal controls. I just wish that stinger worked with either b,db,d,df + 3 or db,d,df,f +3

 

[Duck Nation]

I wish Sky Alert was d,u.

 

[Jimmypotato]

I was having issues with MB coming out with my Stinger this weekend. Not sure if it was me, but it was in tourny and pretty annoying since I ate full punish ever time.

It may have been my stick though. It's a piece of trash, I think I'm gonna use Pad for this game now.

 

[SimSim]

I was having issues with MB coming out with my Stinger this weekend. Not sure if it was me, but it was in tourny and pretty annoying since I ate full punish ever time.

It may have been my stick though. It's a piece of trash, I think I'm gonna use Pad for this game now.

MB stinger is weird. Some times it just won't come out. Seems like your safest bet is to try to mash MB around the point of impact.

 

[Red Reaper]

I just wanted to know if anyone has any good MU experience vs Harley Quinn? I just fought Saltface at a tournament in Augusta GA yesterday, and it felt like he had control of the match the entire time. I have 0 experience vs a good Harley and didn't know what to do, here's the link with the top 3 matches. It starts at 04:07:15 http://www.twitch.tv/ascrubsperspective/b/471638748

I've been on a hiatus for a while right now but Krayzie picked her up a while back and we've gone through the match up. I know there's some matches of ours posted up since we sometimes stream our matches.. Check Twitch.tv/Egp_Krayzie

Some advice: It's usually better to aim the arrow standing since if you shoot it you recover faster and that kan keep her in check. You also get the option of jumping and shooting her out of the air by doing that. If she shoots her gun as you're aiming, you kan react and duck it in time.

Also, make sure you stand block the kartwheel after Tantrum otherwise you won't be able to punish it with D1.

MMH is kind of over the top ridiculous anyways, but this match is just ludicrous. I don't know how a GA will ever realistically win against a well-trained MMH who's even somewhat familiar with Arrow's shit.

I use both characters and have yet to face this match up. lol.. I really don't know how I'd feel about it. Playing against Martian in general is always unorthodox as you have to konstantly change between patience and aggression in footsies. As a Martian player I kan sense the impatient players and it feels like they're just making it easier as time progresses.

I'm pretty confident in my GA skills however, what's the best option for getting out of the corner against armor characters? Like Grundy or Bane...I get pooped on when I'm cornered.

Best way to get out of the korner against Grundy? Jump at him so that he AA grabs you. lol.

 

[Deleted member 28105]

How do I go about playing the Sinestro matchup? I find that I lose that match more than any other

 

[ando1184]

Can someone break down the zod match up for me? It seems he has a really good keep away game but gets really scary with his trait mixups. Those combos hurt a whole lot and most of the fight I feel I'm blocking, ducking, or chasing him???

 

[Red Reaper]

Can someone break down the zod match up for me? It seems he has a really good keep away game but gets really scary with his trait mixups. Those combos hurt a whole lot and most of the fight I feel I'm blocking, ducking, or chasing him???

Haven't played this match up a ton but from my understanding: Shoot a ton of 1% Arrows to stop him from getting out his trait. Scout jumps and shoot him out of the air before he kan MB Air Force Balls. If he forces you to block one of his air projectiles he's mega plus and will get out his trait. Up klose his overhead trait is punishable on block, however the regular demon hits are plus since he kan attack while doing those.

If he gets out his trait you kan avoid for a little bit by dashing forward as it take time for it to katch up.

Also, trait overhead wins trades. Since it komes out at 5 frames it beats D1's and has enough hit advantage to even beat out ice arrows on trade..

I got this from playing like 3 matches offline so I don't know much else. Didn't even know he had an overhead string until after I got hit by it since people like to say "He has no overheads"...

 

[Jaku2011]

Be careful when pressuring Zod a lot of Arrows I play like to do the whole d1 arrow into whatever string but they always seem to forget he has a parry. I think fire arrows would help a lot in the matchup.

 

[Red Reaper]

Be careful when pressuring Zod a lot of Arrows I play like to do the whole d1 arrow into whatever string but they always seem to forget he has a parry. I think fire arrows would help a lot in the matchup.

Low Arrow isn't even plus so the parry doesn't really change much. I do usually forget he has that though..

The parry in general is the least of my koncern, it's everything else he has...

 

[Jaku2011]

I always thought d1 arrow was plus 1? Anyway I'm no expert on either character I'm just saying I find Arrow to be one of the easier characters to parry like Black Adam and Sinestro since his moves are all mid or overhead. I feel he could probably do well mid range (but out of Zods push range) with fire arrows but it's just me thinking about it in my head I don't have a ton of Arrow experience.

 

[Deleted member 28105]

Be careful when pressuring Zod a lot of Arrows I play like to do the whole d1 arrow into whatever string but they always seem to forget he has a parry. I think fire arrows would help a lot in the matchup.

I am in complete agreement with this statement. I tend to face Green Arrow quite a bit while using Batman. The premise of his pressure comes from F2D13, B23 and D1. It is so easy to parry in this matchup just based on the fact that every time a mixup comes, I pre-emptively recognize that it starts with one of this strings unless they mix it up with say, a MB Stinger. It is ok to go parry happy, because even if you guess wrong, his damage output isn't high enough to get a serious punish.

 

[Jimmypotato]

I am in complete agreement with this statement. I tend to face Green Arrow quite a bit while using Batman. The premise of his pressure comes from F2D13, B23 and D1. It is so easy to parry in this matchup just based on the fact that every time a mixup comes, I pre-emptively recognize that it starts with one of this strings unless they mix it up with say, a MB Stinger. It is ok to go parry happy, because even if you guess wrong, his damage output isn't high enough to get a serious punish.

This.


Makes Frost a real bitch too.

 

[Shadow316]

Can GA interrupt Frost if she does Slide (blocked), D1, Slide?

Finding it impossible to test this in training mode. Can't set myself to block low while I record Slide.

 

[Jimmypotato]

Can GA interrupt Frost if she does Slide (blocked), D1, Slide?

Finding it impossible to test this in training mode. Can't set myself to block low while I record Slide.

depends on where she does the slide from, the frames actually change on the distance, the further away she is the more advantage, .

 

[Red Reaper]

depends on where she does the slide from, the frames actually change on the distance, the further away she is the more advantage, .

That makes sense. Didn't think about this for some reason... Always thought she was minus.

 

[Chongo]

Low Arrow isn't even plus so the parry doesn't really change much. I do usually forget he has that though..

The parry in general is the least of my koncern, it's everything else he has...

Best pun ever