Ares d2 is slow and has a pretty mediocre hitbox. It can get the job done, but Jokers jump ins are fast and very difficult to anti air on reaction. Jokers jump 3 also tends to beat Ares j1 in my experience. On top of the Jokers sweep and crowbar out range Ares and shut down most of footsies options, so Ares has very little he can do up close or to get Joker off of him
Joker's oki game can be devastating to Ares. The only wake up that gets Ares some of the teeth set ups is far teleport or meter burn teleport. The far teleport is punishable on a read ad the mb one require meter that Ares needs to zone. The recovery on the far teleport is long, in addition to the long start up. If Ares is using far teleport to run away Joker can hit him with guns on reaction.
Joker outzones Ares in this match up. Jokers guns are faster than Ares fireballs(both in start up and projectile speed, meaning it's difficult for Ares to even trade projectiles), do more damage than Ares non-mb fireball, stuff teleport, and stuff Ares trait. In addition the ability to hold and cancel them is excellent for baiting out and punishing godsmacks and teleports. If Joker gets the life lead he can turtle very effectively. Teleport is punishable and Ares poor mobility makes it difficult to get in or do anything against a Joker who's just going to sit there waiting to punish a teleport or stuff/trade every projectile Ares tries to throw.
Ares d2 is slow but the hitbox is pretty good post d2 buff. It beats out j3 pretty cleanly most of the time, and at worst trades. It needs to be done somewhat on a read, but it is more than good enough to aa j3.
The only way for j3 to beat it out is to do a deep ranger j3, but that opens up the air to air game.
Granted I know if he's waiting to d2, it lets me throw out naked teeth and dash in. But the point is Ares isn't free to Joker's air game.
Alright i'll try zoning more in the match up
But trying to zone an Ares is a really bad idea in general imo.
One teleport read and I just lost, i dont know, 20-30%.
Also even though Joker's gun has faster start up, its a high so you can just duck all day.
If we just go back and forth whiffing high projectiles, ares will build meter for mb fireball and will win the chip war with that.
Joker won't win a pure zoning match. Joker's zoning only helps me stop you from zoning for a brief second so I can dash cancel the gun and get in.
Yes the threat of gunshot keeps you from spamming your zoning, but I just can't throw gunshot out too much because of the threat of teleport. And that opens up your zoning.
The risk reward is in your favour, yes on trades I win by like 1%. And i'll beat your zoning if we go shot for shot, but one teleport read is all it takes. Then you can just turtle all day.
Before I could at least punish teleport, but now he can keep himself safe with mb teleport into d1. You cannot punish that, if you try to pre-emptively do it the punish comes out in the wrong direction. If you delay it so it corrects itself, ares d1 will beat my d1(or w/e punish im going for). Now I know d1 sword is interruptible for full combo. But once I start waiting for the d1, you can just tele into throw or other pressure.
I'll play the match some more and try your stuff out, maybe i'm wrong and I just need more experience, but from what i've played its a horrible match for Joker.
He won't win the zoning war and mb teleport wrecks Joker now.
