"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

[OnlineRon91]

Good Aquaman's shouldn't jump in this matchup though. They have no reason too. Things to watch for are making the right read on their wakeup for which corner game you run. Trait makes things annoying, but as long as you can stay in his face and avoid those d2's (jump WISELY), it's a pretty managable matchup I think.We can counterzone him with gun pretty easily and dash every blocked FTD or every hit gunshot to get in.

Exactly! They can't do anything to you. Can anyone check if we can parry his 2 or trident rush after b1?

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Exactly! They can't do anything to you. Can anyone check if we can parry his 2 or trident rush after b1?

I always go to the WW parry guide for stuff like that because it's the most comprehensive:
http://testyourmight.com/threads/parry-vs.31771/
According to that, yes. I'll verify later tonight.

 

[Qwark28]

aquaman is 7-3 and this is after playing many high lvls aquamen include tom.

you will not avoid d2

FTD doesnt give you a free dash into pressure. dash after an upclose ftd and youre at -, not punishable but his footsies are better.

gunshot should only be used fullscreen as a check and to punish ftd up close

you dont understand how gunshot works, it may give you a 'free" dash ( which is still punishable if youre dashing in their face ) but you're at recovery frames right in front of them, if you get in at -3/6 then dont get in at all because you just gave aquaman a free b12 trident.

fyi he can jump freely from certain distances and you cant AA him.

 

[OnlineRon91]

To add on to what qwark is saying, gunshot can't punish aquaman and gunshot can't be used to keep him honest because he can punish you for a big chunk.

While it's true that aquaman can jump outside of your d2 range, does it matter? It's not like any of his jump ins has more reach than your d2 so you'd be safe regardless, unless I missed your point.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

It's definitely 7-3, I just think its a bit more managable than some of the others.
I'm not saying gunshot is better than FTD, but it's even on trade damage wise. He gets more advantage on hit, but is -20 on block- I don't think that's enough time to punish with gun at most distances, but it's enough to dash and hold down to block the next one. Startup is a bit faster, so he needs to respect that and if you can get out in front with shots, you can start playing dash cancel mind games.
For dashing, I'm not talking about establishing pressure, just gap closing. We're not strong once we're in his face, but we aren't any better off at full screen either, so there aren't alot of options there.
As far as his footsies go, his low is gross, but his overhead is slow enough to react to and even parry, so similar to Joker, you should be safe starting out blocking low once you get in.
I still need to get some sets in with Tom... but I think all this is pretty accurate. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[OnlineRon91]

I don't believe in match-up numbers, I'll let you guys debate that xD

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

I remember the prerelease joker, everybody talkin so op and good joker as, but in the release date, it was like this

 

[StevoSuprem0]

That guy should have laid down some teeth.

 

[Qwark28]

far teeth into backdash woldve given him a combo

 

[Qwark28]

some online tournament footage to be posted soon.

and offline tournament footage next week with a dedicated stream for what will be a 3 hour tournament.

 

[R3CK3Dx]

Supp jokers I was having a thought about his trait and how dumb it is that characters like killer frost have the same thing but hers is better and can lead to full combos! IMO since his trait makes him move faster so why not allow to parry projectiles so he can get in easier? Any thoughts on this?

 

[Qwark28]

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Supp jokers I was having a thought about his trait and how dumb it is that characters like killer frost have the same thing but hers is better and can lead to full combos! IMO since his trait makes him move faster so why not allow to parry projectiles so he can get in easier? Any thoughts on this?

We'd love that. But at this point, they probably aren't going to be doing any redesigns to the trait. Pretty sure we're stuck with what we have .

 

[StevoSuprem0]

snip

I've never seen a crowbar whiff after connecting like it did in round 3... lol buh.
Good stuff bud. Solid play.

 

[Qwark28]

I've never seen a crowbar whiff after connecting like it did in round 3... lol buh.
Good stuff bud. Solid play.

it happens, happened a month ago in the fortress of solitudes floor and we were discussing that thats why superman killed joker

 

[Qwark28]

I need someone to test something for me

j2 32/21/11 teeth in the corner followed by b13 or d1 flower with their opp mashing

A) good hitbox and fast d1/aquamans

B) good hitbox and fast D2 / grundy or aquaman

C) fast moves in general

if any string on hit provides any advantage at all even teeth are laid down we hit a goldmine, it only just occured to me

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I need someone to test something for me

j2 32/21/11 teeth in the corner followed by b13 or d1 flower with their opp mashing

A) good hitbox and fast d1/aquamans

B) good hitbox and fast D2 / grundy or aquaman

C) fast moves in general

if any string on hit provides any advantage at all even teeth are laid down we hit a goldmine, it only just occured to me

Are you talking about on block? We already know that 212 into teeth is safe on block.
On hit, no, people can poke (and Aquaman can even d2) and jump out. You can d2 them as they jump though- it's still a bad place for them, but some matchups can do more than that (flash can flying uppercut out, DD can venom, etc). Just tested with 21 xx teeth (best possible advantage even with cancel) and 323 xx teeth just to see because there isn't really data on that cancel. No go.

 

[Qwark28]

Are you talking about on block? We already know that 212 into teeth is safe on block.
On hit, no, people can poke (and Aquaman can even d2) and jump out. You can d2 them as they jump though- it's still a bad place for them, but some matchups can do more than that (flash can flying uppercut out, DD can venom, etc). Just tested with 21 xx teeth (best possible advantage even with cancel) and 323 xx teeth just to see because there isn't really data on that cancel. No go.

i had tested it myself, 21 and 32 into teeth on hit are completely safe from a reversal flying uppercut, i had the cpu do it and later on mashed flying uppercut myself. theyre safe.

i need to know if you can get a move out because i could almost get a b1 out before the flying uppercut interrupted me

which means that people who are not on point with a small % of moves in this game will be instantly reset

323 teeth is very punishable even on hit though

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Side note: just a quick update on the guide I'm working on-
It's gonna wind up being more comprehensive than I had previously planned. Gonna cover just about everything besides matchup specifics, including normals, specials, zoning strategy for when it's applicable, BnBs, Corner stuff, teeth setups, and teeth combos. Let me know if you guys can think of anything specific for me to add, and I'll either thank you or tell you it's in there already =)

 

[StevoSuprem0]

i had tested it myself, 21 and 32 into teeth on hit are completely safe from a reversal flying uppercut, i had the cpu do it and later on mashed flying uppercut myself. theyre safe.

i need to know if you can get a move out because i could almost get a b1 out before the flying uppercut interrupted me

which means that people who are not on point with a small % of moves in this game will be instantly reset

323 teeth is very punishable even on hit though

Yeah, that's what I mean, you get the teeth out, but you can't get a move out IF they are relatively on with their timing. Top level, it's not happening. Against randoms and online in general, there is a good chance you'll pull it off though. We explored this back in the day. You weren't around yet

 

[Qwark28]

Yeah, that's what I mean, you get the teeth out, but you can't get a move out IF they are relatively on with their timing. Top level, it's not happening. Against randoms and online in general, there is a good chance you'll pull it off though. We explored this back in the day. You weren't around yet

I never left, just stopped posting. It also wasn't talked about in the way that I'm saying it but now I can test it myself.

And you mean the other way around. You think you have chills and runs making out of pools? Imagine a top 8 with so much at stake, people watching, stream watching, not being in a comfortable, safe place like your home and then having to be on point everytime Joker sets something up.

Same reason why some "blockable" stuff is not really blockable in tournaments. I was testing some shit with a friend a few weeks ago and he wanted to block them just for fun, he did but then told me "yeah, thats not gonna be blocked in a tournament".

 

[Qwark28]

And I was right.

New tech vid coming soon.

It's not much but it's a nice 50/50.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

And I was right.

New tech vid coming soon.

It's not much but it's a nice 50/50.

Right about what?

 

[Qwark28]

Right about what?

Being able to lay down teeth after 32 on hit and enforce a 50/50.

Found a lot of juicy stuff, will update with a vid on wednesday.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

We've already talked about that stuff before, but feel free to throw something together on it as a refresher.
32 works better like this at the end of a combo in the corner, on the ground it's escapable. 21 I find more useful for going right into b1 crowbar because it's a frame trap. But they have to be really on with their responses, so it's worth talking about.