Match-up Discussion Bane's living MU Chart (v1.06/v.1.07)

[Doombawkz]

Joker is even.

5.5-4.5 at best, our favour. The new f.2.d.3 changes are just too good, also your wake-up is still pretty ass.
We don't have to worry about your traps anymore either thanks to the VU change as well.

 

[Qwark28]

5.5-4.5 at best, our favour. The new f.2.d.3 changes are just too good, also your wake-up is still pretty ass.
We don't have to worry about your traps anymore either thanks to the VU change as well.

F2D3 changes nothing. If anything it benefits us.

You always have to worry about our setups. Always. Especially in situations where you can't even wake up.

 

[Doombawkz]

F2D3 changes nothing. If anything it benefits us.

You always have to worry about our setups. Always. Especially in situations where you can't even wake up.

f.2.d.3 changes a lot, it doesn't benefit you at all.

We never do because all of your set-ups are based around us having to stay on the ground. We have options to negate that, even moreso now than ever. Also, we always have the option to wake-up.

 

[RYX]

f.2.d.3 changes a lot, it doesn't benefit you at all.

We never do because all of your set-ups are based around us having to stay on the ground. We have options to negate that, even moreso now than ever. Also, we always have the option to wake-up.

I played Emperor Dark before

this is definitely not true lol, we can't wake-up at all

 

[Qwark28]

f.2.d.3 changes a lot, it doesn't benefit you at all.

We never do because all of your set-ups are based around us having to stay on the ground. We have options to negate that, even moreso now than ever. Also, we always have the option to wake-up.

Since when do our setups require you to stay on the ground? You don't understand that Joker wants you to wake up, it's a 50/50 where he's always in control and everytime you guess wrong you lose 48% of your life and end up in the corner

F2D3 benefits us because we want to be fullscreen. You have to get in, not the opposite.

 

[Doombawkz]

I played Emperor Dark before

this is definitely not true lol, we can't wake-up at all

You are terrible at Bane though, you wouldn't be able to wake-up regardless if it was relevant in the MU or not.

Which, by the by, it isn't. I've seen the crowbar techs, our armor stops the otg type deals just fine.

 

[RYX]

You are terrible at Bane though, you wouldn't be able to wake-up regardless if it was relevant in the MU or not.

Which, by the by, it isn't. I've seen the crowbar techs, our armor stops the otg type deals just fine.

he gave me props for using bane, but I guess I'm terrible so it doesn't matter

you can't use armor to escape it, you can't wake-up at all, that's why it's an OTG lol. Doom I concede that you probably know more about Bane than me right now but come on, Bane doesn't take this

 

[Doombawkz]

Since when do our setups require you to stay on the ground? You don't understand that Joker wants you to wake up, it's a 50/50 where he's always in control and everytime you guess wrong you lose 48% of your life and end up in the corner

F2D3 benefits us because we want to be fullscreen. You have to get in, not the opposite.

Except he isn't in control this time. Its not even a 50/50, its a 25/75 where we are the bigger number simply because our options cover much larger bases than yours do. Not to mention once you get knocked down, you have nothing to get back up with and even you know that's undeniable.

You don't know how f.2.d.3 works, we get 2 free dashes and oki advantage if it hits you. They did a recovery dump kind of like how they did with crowbar, only they did it to our armored, low crush, grab immune, overhead, armor breaking, projectile immune advancing attack.

 

[Doombawkz]

he gave me props for using bane, but I guess I'm terrible so it doesn't matter

you can't use armor to escape it, you can't wake-up at all, that's why it's an OTG lol. Doom I concede that you probably know more about Bane than me right now but come on, Bane doesn't take this

"Grats on using Bane" isn't the same as "You're such a good Bane".

It operates on the same system as our d.2xxBP does, where we negate grab immunity even if its a factor. However, I've tested against the tech and yes, we do have options against it. Above that, he has to knock us down in a way that's favourable for that scenario first. That will be more difficult than us doing the same thing, and for all his "resets" are worth, they don't mean anything when he can't get off his back or fight us in the neutral.

 

[Qwark28]

Except he isn't in control this time. Its not even a 50/50, its a 25/75 where we are the bigger number simply because our options cover much larger bases than yours do. Not to mention once you get knocked down, you have nothing to get back up with and even you know that's undeniable.

You don't know how f.2.d.3 works, we get 2 free dashes and oki advantage if it hits you. They did a recovery dump kind of like how they did with crowbar, only they did it to our armored, low crush, grab immune, overhead, armor breaking, projectile immune advancing attack.

I do know how F2D3 works, like I said, It's not against me. I want to be in the corner, I want to make you get in.

Please explain which scenario you're reffering to? We have multiple setups and I can tell you only know 1-2.

"Grats on using Bane" isn't the same as "You're such a good Bane".

It operates on the same system as our d.2xxBP does, where we negate grab immunity even if its a factor. However, I've tested against the tech and yes, we do have options against it. Above that, he has to knock us down in a way that's favourable for that scenario first. That will be more difficult than us doing the same thing, and for all his "resets" are worth, they don't mean anything when he can't get off his back or fight us in the neutral.

If we're using credentials, how are you considered a good bane?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I haven't played with Grundy yet

but I think Bane probably destroys him now.

Amazingly, i think they cover each other well though. Which is hilarious.

 

[Doombawkz]

I do know how F2D3 works, like I said, It's not against me. I want to be in the corner, I want to make you get in.

Please explain which scenario you're reffering to? We have multiple setups and I can tell you only know 1-2.



If we're using credentials, how are you considered a good bane?

Except you don't want to be in the corner, and us getting in isn't an issue since we have time to get over to your body and make a cup of brew before you even have the option of doing anything. And considering you said "I want to be full screen so its our advantage" that tells me you don't know how it works otherwise you'd realize its just huge corner push and us having oki advantage point-blank afterwards.

The only ones that are actually applicable in this match stem from the use of j.2 because everything else you do on the ground just gets eaten. Likewise, the only ones that are even slightly threatening to us are the crowbar oki set-ups since everything else we can VU out of for nearly free. Even those aren't an issue at level 3 venom thanks to auto-tracking.


When did I say I was a good Bane? I'm a knowledgeable Bane, yeah, but the point was more me poking fun at RYX as I often do because we have a love/hate thing going on.

 

[RYX]

I haven't played with Grundy yet

but I think Bane probably destroys him now.

Amazingly, i think they cover each other well though. Which is hilarious.

he does, lol

Also props to your Grundy, for a terribad match-up you didn't do too bad against my awful Bane a few weeks back

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

he does, lol

Also props to your Grundy, for a terribad match-up you didn't do too bad against my awful Bane a few weeks back

Honestly, I don't feel its THAT bad. Because if I can get my chip trait, I can just play defense and wait for something to WCC proper.
I have a mental block with Bane though. Sometimes I think people are just pushing buttons to push buttons and it drives me nuts.

I appreciate the props though. I always learn something from all the Banes. I just wish I had better execution on my WCC.

I need to test how much venom levels change the damage output.

But yeah, if you knock Grundy down he basically has to play super defense to get up. IDK yet.

Bane def. wins right now, until I can brainstorm something. GAH

 

[Qwark28]

Except you don't want to be in the corner, and us getting in isn't an issue since we have time to get over to your body and make a cup of brew before you even have the option of doing anything. And considering you said "I want to be full screen so its our advantage" that tells me you don't know how it works otherwise you'd realize its just huge corner push and us having oki advantage point-blank afterwards.

The only ones that are actually applicable in this match stem from the use of j.2 because everything else you do on the ground just gets eaten. Likewise, the only ones that are even slightly threatening to us are the crowbar oki set-ups since everything else we can VU out of for nearly free. Even those aren't an issue at level 3 venom thanks to auto-tracking.


When did I say I was a good Bane? I'm a knowledgeable Bane, yeah, but the point was more me poking fun at RYX as I often do because we have a love/hate thing going on.

Ok, you don't know how Joker's corner game works, one tiny hit and it's reset time, the kind of which you won't escape because your armour's hit do not scale with the amount of venom you have going. We always have the advantage unless you're up close, teeth and gunshot excelently control space for people who need to get in.

I don't care what you do to me in the corner because I know I only need a single bad read to take your entire lifebar the one time you guess wrong.

VU is not safe. Stop thinking that, I've made a vid and I'm about to post it. VU is punishable for HALF your life dude. Half your life and half a stage of wallcarry, you need to realise how strong Joker's corner game is, it's top 3 in the game because once he does open you up you're toast.

There are other good setups vs VU except J2 and you'd be surprised just how easy it is to hit you with them.

Crowbar oki setups are not threatening, they set stuff up but by themselves they are not threatening.

We have more damage than you when you're not willing to spend 2 bars or go lvl 2-3, we have better space control and we have solid counters to most of your things while you got good rushdown and armour as well as setups, just like us. Dead even and I will prove it to any Bane on XBL. Soon I'll be getting some sets in with Mustard.

 

[RYX]

Honestly, I don't feel its THAT bad. Because if I can get my chip trait, I can just play defense and wait for something to WCC proper.
I have a mental block with Bane though. Sometimes I think people are just pushing buttons to push buttons and it drives me nuts.

I appreciate the props though. I always learn something from all the Banes. I just wish I had better execution on my WCC.

I need to test how much venom levels change the damage output.

But yeah, if you knock Grundy down he basically has to play super defense to get up. IDK yet.

Bane def. wins right now, until I can brainstorm something. GAH

I think it's free, to be honest. I can't remember the lost time I actually lost a whole set to a Grundy player (not that they show up too often.)

Bane having a lot of grab immune moves and f.2.d.3 being safe against him is pretty bad, him and all his armor crushing makes it worse. If Bane feels like spending meter he'll match Grundy's damage (can get over 70% 2 bars with the MB b.3 buffs) and if he doesn't he still doesn't fall far behind.

on the off chance Grundy gets him while he's debuffed or something.... well that's a whole different story. It's one of my favorite MUs to play though

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I think it's free, to be honest. I can't remember the lost time I actually lost a whole set to a Grundy player (not that they show up too often.)

Bane having a lot of grab immune moves and f.2.d.3 being safe against him is pretty bad, him and all his armor crushing makes it worse. If Bane feels like spending meter he'll match Grundy's damage (can get over 70% 2 bars with the MB b.3 buffs) and if he doesn't he still doesn't fall far behind.

on the off chance Grundy gets him while he's debuffed or something.... well that's a whole different story. It's one of my favorite MUs to play though

It is free right now I think. Just like you guys, i'm searching for the answer.
The start of the match really determines the outcome of it. Since these Matches happen in about less than a minute.
Bane makes me play faster than I want. I think I just need to lab the MU a bit.
I dont' think it'll ever be better than a 4-6 for Grundy though. Bane just has too many throw immune moves (dumbest thing ever) that lead into his grab.

 

[RYX]

It is free right now I think. Just like you guys, i'm searching for the answer.
The start of the match really determines the outcome of it. Since these Matches happen in about less than a minute.
Bane makes me play faster than I want. I think I just need to lab the MU a bit.
I dont' think it'll ever be better than a 4-6 for Grundy though. Bane just has too many throw immune moves (dumbest thing ever) that lead into his grab.

If you'd like we could play the MU this weekend if you have time. Just hit me up on PSN whenever and we'll see if we can find a solution

 

[Doombawkz]

Ok, you don't know how Joker's corner game works, one tiny hit and it's reset time, the kind of which you won't escape because your armour's hit do not scale with the amount of venom you have going. We always have the advantage unless you're up close, teeth and gunshot excelently control space for people who need to get in.

I don't care what you do to me in the corner because I know I only need a single bad read to take your entire lifebar the one time you guess wrong.

VU is not safe. Stop thinking that, I've made a vid and I'm about to post it. VU is punishable for HALF your life dude. Half your life and half a stage of wallcarry, you need to realise how strong Joker's corner game is, it's top 3 in the game because once he does open you up you're toast.

There are other good setups vs VU except J2 and you'd be surprised just how easy it is to hit you with them.

Crowbar oki setups are not threatening, they set stuff up but by themselves they are not threatening.

We have more damage than you when you're not willing to spend 2 bars or go lvl 2-3, we have better space control and we have solid counters to most of your things while you got good rushdown and armour as well as setups, just like us. Dead even and I will prove it to any Bane on XBL. Soon I'll be getting some sets in with Mustard.

Yes, teeth and gunshots somewhat control distance, but they aren't walls. Even I can get around them from good Joker players.

You should care because we don't need to make reads to take your entire lifebar, we do it just casually. Once you get knocked down, you don't get back up, and your idea of "I need only a single bad read to blah blah" is laughable. How are you going to force us to read anything? We just blow up all of your options and stay in, we don't need to make reads so much as inputs.

VU is safe, and I'm sure you did "make a video" and I look forward to poking holes in in relentlessly. You don't even have combos that do half my life in damage unless I'm on some wicked cooldown, and you likely won't be able to sink them anyways because you'll either be waiting for the drop kick and miss the normal punish, or expect the bait and get smacked by the drop kick.

I'm sure I would be, Quark. I would be equally surprised if someone would actually be able to do such things, since right now you make the match sound quite lopsided for it being a 5-5. Perhaps calm down and think more logically, for example, "How do I avoid being knocked down the entire match?".

They are the most threatening thing you have against us, and I play some good Jokers myself.

You have more damage than us when you can land a solid set-up, something you are unlikely to do as often as we are to land hits when your laying on your broken spine. For all your "zone control" is worth, its a temporary solution to a permanent problem, and it does eventually fall. Your shortcomings outside of it become apparent past that point. You don't have any "solid" counters to anything we have, you only have potential temporary solutions to persistent actual "solid" problems.

You'll have to make at least 5 or 6 reads to kill us, while we only need to make 2 or 3 at the most, and our 2 or 3 guesses have much more lenient answers and openings than your 5 or 6 do. Its a matter of a character who requires set-ups and lacks the tools to do so consistently against someone whose entire game revolves around shutting down said options. Its 5.5-4.5 at BEST. I'd wager it a 6-4, but I respect the joker community enough to pity them on having the worst in the game. We were there once, so I can understand your struggle.

 

[PND_Ketchup]

Yes, teeth and gunshots somewhat control distance, but they aren't walls. Even I can get around them from good Joker players.

You should care because we don't need to make reads to take your entire lifebar, we do it just casually. Once you get knocked down, you don't get back up, and your idea of "I need only a single bad read to blah blah" is laughable. How are you going to force us to read anything? We just blow up all of your options and stay in, we don't need to make reads so much as inputs.

VU is safe, and I'm sure you did "make a video" and I look forward to poking holes in in relentlessly. You don't even have combos that do half my life in damage unless I'm on some wicked cooldown, and you likely won't be able to sink them anyways because you'll either be waiting for the drop kick and miss the normal punish, or expect the bait and get smacked by the drop kick.

I'm sure I would be, Quark. I would be equally surprised if someone would actually be able to do such things, since right now you make the match sound quite lopsided for it being a 5-5. Perhaps calm down and think more logically, for example, "How do I avoid being knocked down the entire match?".

They are the most threatening thing you have against us, and I play some good Jokers myself.

You have more damage than us when you can land a solid set-up, something you are unlikely to do as often as we are to land hits when your laying on your broken spine. For all your "zone control" is worth, its a temporary solution to a permanent problem, and it does eventually fall. Your shortcomings outside of it become apparent past that point. You don't have any "solid" counters to anything we have, you only have potential temporary solutions to persistent actual "solid" problems.

You'll have to make at least 5 or 6 reads to kill us, while we only need to make 2 or 3 at the most, and our 2 or 3 guesses have much more lenient answers and openings than your 5 or 6 do. Its a matter of a character who requires set-ups and lacks the tools to do so consistently against someone whose entire game revolves around shutting down said options. Its 5.5-4.5 at BEST. I'd wager it a 6-4, but I respect the joker community enough to pity them on having the worst in the game. We were there once, so I can understand your struggle.

Considering you both play on Xbox live, may as well have some games to test out your theories etc.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

With the MB B3 buffs she can deal with him in any venom now. Teleport punishes charges, MB B3 beats most of his pressure options, and when he is on debuff he pretty much has to sit there and take pillars, which builds more meter for the first two options.

Blind_Man maybe you can explain it better.

The mb b3 buff helps a lot except at level 3 venom. I doubt that it changes the mu number. We'll see eventually. Yeah during debuff banes fucked and Raven might actually build more meter because he takes more chip I think or something.

 

[Doombawkz]

Considering you both play on Xbox live, may as well have some games to test out your theories etc.

I'm the hottest kind of ass on the default d-pad, it wouldn't even be a challenge for Quark.
That and the connection from FL to Greece isn't too good.

 

[Qwark28]

Yes, teeth and gunshots somewhat control distance, but they aren't walls. Even I can get around them from good Joker players.

You should care because we don't need to make reads to take your entire lifebar, we do it just casually. Once you get knocked down, you don't get back up, and your idea of "I need only a single bad read to blah blah" is laughable. How are you going to force us to read anything? We just blow up all of your options and stay in, we don't need to make reads so much as inputs.

VU is safe, and I'm sure you did "make a video" and I look forward to poking holes in in relentlessly. You don't even have combos that do half my life in damage unless I'm on some wicked cooldown, and you likely won't be able to sink them anyways because you'll either be waiting for the drop kick and miss the normal punish, or expect the bait and get smacked by the drop kick.

I'm sure I would be, Quark. I would be equally surprised if someone would actually be able to do such things, since right now you make the match sound quite lopsided for it being a 5-5. Perhaps calm down and think more logically, for example, "How do I avoid being knocked down the entire match?".

They are the most threatening thing you have against us, and I play some good Jokers myself.

You have more damage than us when you can land a solid set-up, something you are unlikely to do as often as we are to land hits when your laying on your broken spine. For all your "zone control" is worth, its a temporary solution to a permanent problem, and it does eventually fall. Your shortcomings outside of it become apparent past that point. You don't have any "solid" counters to anything we have, you only have potential temporary solutions to persistent actual "solid" problems.

You'll have to make at least 5 or 6 reads to kill us, while we only need to make 2 or 3 at the most, and our 2 or 3 guesses have much more lenient answers and openings than your 5 or 6 do. Its a matter of a character who requires set-ups and lacks the tools to do so consistently against someone whose entire game revolves around shutting down said options. Its 5.5-4.5 at BEST. I'd wager it a 6-4, but I respect the joker community enough to pity them on having the worst in the game. We were there once, so I can understand your struggle.

VU is not safe. MB version is. I don't know how to feel about your arguements when I have to teach you on your own move.

I'm sorry but if you're beating Joker players with only 2-3 reads an entire game then either you or they suck. You can't autopilot bane on wakeup, it's always a guessing game, I'm gonna wait until someone reasonable comes with something other than "were designed to break that, this unsafe move is safe" and ' it doesnt matter to us" to discuss this.

My gamertag is Qwark28, feel free to play me and I will show you why this is 5-5

 

[Doombawkz]

Its cute how you only punished it once you had no more room to stagger back, which is part of what makes it safe.

Punish it midscreen and show me.

 

[Qwark28]

You will never be hit by the MB version because you can simply wait. If you do VU then you MUST meterburn it to make it safe vs most moves, if you can only escape shit when you have bars and still not really escape most of our shit then ok.

D1 special punishes it btw.