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Mass shootings and drugs

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
IMO its not the drugs, but the misuse of the drugs.

Basically that summarizes the main point, right?
 

Relaxedstate

PTH|RM Relaxedstate
But like alcohol, drugs have side effects. Thoughts of suicide and aggression are some of them. Regardless of who posted this info I still think drugs played a factor in those cases. The media only talks about games, guns and music but they won't dare go after the drug lobby.

I do see your point though. The only argument I have is that these drugs do have side effects that can make things worse.
You are right, Drugs do play a role, in the same way that many other complex environmental factors do. (I just dislike when people try to persuade one cause over an other, whilst missing the important discussion to be had haha)

Is should be noted though that the popular media does actually like to blame drugs as much as they do guns or violent video games.

I might have a million dollars for every time after a shooting someone said , "Wow, they must be OFF their meds", and even the opposite, "They should be ON medications." It can't be both, because it is not. As if being medications had some role to play.

Drug withdrawal can be very intense. The main qualities of being off medication are increased agitation, strong desire to reach homeostasis by taking the drug again, (most drugs, not the bipolar drug lithium). Increased suicidal ideation and agitation are however very far removed from picking up a weapon and murdering a lot of people. That would be one sick withdrawal symptom.

The sucky part is that while I can tell people that it is not X,Y, or Z that causes these monstrosities. I can't propose a solution either. That is where we are stuck as a society. But we will only be more stuck if we keep arguing over oranges and apples.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
rev0lver: I agree with you on over prescribing, I believe part of the mental illness issues in the US is that often times we see children at too young of an age being diagnosed with some form of mental illness, I was even told by our doctor, that my 6 year old son suffers from ADD and needed Ritlain, this is a M.D. not a psycologist, 6 years old is way too young to even consider diagnosis of a mental illness and by placing him under a heavy prescription of drugs will only further damage is brain development as he grows. So, therefore I do see you point 100% at what you mean, but I do not feel this is the main reason we have this strong emaphasis on heavy gun violence in the US.

Relaxedstate and Doombawkz: You are also correct gentilmen, there has been countless atrocities committed by the human race that do not involve drugs or any kind of mind altering substance, but at the same time there has been plenty of cases reported as well, but not enough to support the claims being made by the OP.

Scoot Magee: I am not going to insult you here, but the issue here is not guns, drugs, video games, movies, music, or even mental illness, it is just plain old human nature. These scapegoats are a socity's of way not wanting to accept responsibility for its actions. People do not want to believe that a person is capable of doing said things, which is why we tend to call these people monsters. By dehumanizing a person its makes it easier on us to criminalize and punish them, same goes with using scapegoats, it is people not wanting to accept what has occurred. A good example is the attacks on 9/11, we don't refer to the perp.s as bad people or humans, we call them terrorists or Islam extremists, it is only a form of dehumanization that is all. Back in older days before people understood mental illness, it was then referred to as demonic possesion, but now today it is better understood and there are drugs and substances to use that help to take care of these problems.

I know a very large amount of poeple with PTSD, Bipolar-Disorder, and other crazy mental illnesses, mainly due to my time in the military, heck due to an incident that happened to me in the Ukraine while my time in the military I now have flashbacks of being beaten by a crowd of people when I see large groups running in my direction. The list of names you put out make a very small percentage of the population that has and lives with mental illness in the US and I do agree. For all those on this list there is a much larger degree of people who are on the same exact medications as them that live day in and day out and do just fine with them. For those that are more volitale it is different and these cases are unique in their own right, those people may be alchahol users as well, any and all those medications are not to be mixed with that kind of substance, also though in the initial treament of these diseases a person is more unstable until they adjust to that medication, the person has lived so long out of whack that they do not understand what normal is suppose to feel like. Hell I went through strange issues when I was initially treated for Type-1 Diabetes and discovered that feeling normal wasn't that normal to me and I had to re-adjust myself to it, now when my Blood Sugar is high I feel out of whack.

The other problem here is the gun control issue, it cannot be trully enforced unfortunately and if we allow our government to circumvent the Constitution of the US then they can continue to take more rights away from us, for instance, after taking the 2nd Admendment what is next the 1st or our freedom of religion. Consider what your saying here, for unfortunately there is just not enough evidence to prove these claims and please stay away from the tin-foil hat folks that come up with strange conspiracies.
 

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
I am so glad SOMEONE finally made a post (which the list is could be much larger) of the correlation between "drugs" and these mass shootings. Before I post my views and opinions, you should know that politically speaking, I'm somewhere in the middle because I'm huge on gay/equal rights and I'm huge on the 2nd amendment and gun rights. ;)

Regardless of how you "feel" about guns, the 2nd amendment is the fundamental right that truly allows for freedom. There is a reason why throughout history, dictators and their governments have taken the guns away from the people...it's because they can't rule the people if they had firepower in their homes. Talk to anyone currently living in the Philippines or North Korea.

However, I don't have enough time to fully relay my point of view on this topic, but it is absolutely ridiculous that whenever a shooting occurs, people like Feinstein are already pointing their fingers at "guns" and their owners. Law abiding citizens/gun owners have nothing to do with these types of incidents. They should be raising awareness on the prescription drugs that all of these gunman are loaded up on. OR...if you wanna have REAL TALK...the truth is that the government just wants to disarm the citizens because they are authoritarians and want to have full control. Just my .02 ;)
 

xWildx

What a day. What a lovely day.
Remember when there were less shootings back in the day when less drugs were available? My parents do.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
The problem with these issues is that there are many multiple contributing facorts outside of guns and drugs or violent media. Its parenting for one if parents were raising there kids andpaying attention to them this can help to prevnt these actions, but that is a small factor.

Another factor is bullying, many of the listed cases the OP made are victims of horrid bullying, the two Columbine kids is a big example, bullying has been linked multiple times to suicide and many cases of murder, but again only a tiny factor, let us look at a case that is very outside this spectrum.

Recently in LA a 9 year old kid shot his grandmother in the head witha weapon and its mainly being blamed on his playing GTA 4. Her is the questions to ask rather than claim the game made this kid do it.
1. Why was the child able to have access to a deadly weapon in the first place.
2. Why weren't the parents properly teaching this child about safe handling of a weapon, for the child did claim he though it was a toy.
3. Why is a 9 year old being allowed to play a video game meant for people baove the age of 17.
This case did not involve drugs, but the child still committed murder.

We are focused too much on facet of the problem when we need to view the larger picture.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
There is no human nature. Our behavior and actions are controlled by neurological processes. When something changes the neurological processes themselves, like with pharmaceutical drugs, it is significant.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
There is no human nature. Our behavior and actions are controlled by neurological processes. When something changes the neurological processes themselves, like with pharmaceutical drugs, it is significant.
Your correct! You would know better than me as well being that you are a psychology major, but I have to ask as well, what of those that do legitimately live witha mental illness that requires a medication. I know many that take meds and without those meds they get absolutely insane. What of those that do suffer from PTSD, which is many almost every soldier and sailor I have worked with or vet. I worked with all suffer from it ranging from the extreme and the minor. I believe over prescribing is an issue, but I also believe that these drugs do as well help thos ethat actually do need them.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I just don't see how people can argue the side effects of these drugs. They are advertised at the end of commercials even.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
GGuy your not paying attention this is not the main factor withinacts of violence
It's not the only factor, I understand people being exposed to fucked up shit is a factor. What I'm saying is the drug issue is not talked about and it is a factor even if not the main factor. Drugs may be mentioned at times but its never the focus like guns, games and music are.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
On the issue of bullying. How do we know meds needed to be prescribed to the kids being bullied? Columbine is a good example. The blame for that shooting was put on doom. As of doom turned these kids crazy and made them shoot up a school.

I'll tell you one thing. Those meds didn't stop them from shooting up the school and I think one could argue that they may not have done it if they weren't medicated. How about controlling the bully? Schools do not handle that shit well.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
It's not the only factor, I understand people being exposed to fucked up shit is a factor. What I'm saying is the drug issue is not talked about and it is a factor even if not the main factor. Drugs may be mentioned at times but its never the focus like guns, games and music are.
The others are typically mentioned because it gathers readers and viewers, remeber the media and the news get paid when you click and you read so the use of buzz words and odd news stories will get attention.

You have to view this though at the big picture you cannot view the problem at only pointing to one aspect of it. There are so many different contributing factors of these problems that its unreal and they have to all be addressed.

For example another contributing factor of gun violence is the media, if you ever noticed when thing atrocious occurs and the media posts a story on it the suddenly there is this rash outburst of similar instances,, take school shootings for example, how many sudden reports through the US were there about another scholl shooting incident after the events of Sandy Hook, how many crazy people screaming they have guns in movie theaters after Aura, CO happened. The media sensationalizes things and then then poeple start to repeat incidenst for their 15 min. of fame or shame. Then more hits and clicks are genrated when those are covered.
 

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
Blaming drugs is an easy "solution" to a much more complex problem. However, people who have had psychiatric treatment, especially those cases that warranted drugs, should not be allowed to buy guns without having to submit to a background check. I can't believe this is still a discussion.

You can blame any scapegoat you like. How many people have to die so that you can fast-track a gun or not have to change your clip as often?

Other countries have shown that this type of legislature works fine. All this "WE'RE MURICA FUCK THE GOV'MENT WE NEED OUR GUNS" rhetoric is not helping anything when mass shootings are becoming a common occurrence. The NRA is a lobbying group devoted to making the arms industry as much money as possible. They, like pretty much every other corporate lobbying group, are not in it for you; they are in it for themselves, and they are a detrimental force in the nation.

As an aside, yes, the pharmaceutical industry is out of control. To be honest, very few industries are not out of control. But it is not the lone reason for gun violence in this country, and background checks are an effective way to weed out crazies packing heat.
 
Reactions: PPJ

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
On the issue of bullying. How do we know meds needed to be prescribed to the kids being bullied? Columbine is a good example. The blame for that shooting was put on doom. As of doom turned these kids crazy and made them shoot up a school.

I'll tell you one thing. Those meds didn't stop them from shooting up the school and I think one could argue that they may not have done it if they weren't medicated. How about controlling the bully? Schools do not handle that shit well.
what didn't stop the kids in CO was not Doom or drugs what didn't stop them was their parents not giving a damn about what their kids were up to in their basments. The issue with Doom and Marilyn Manson was nothing more tha a scapegoat, whcih if you do more research you will find that when they blamed Manson on the shootings, it was later discovered the kids didn't even listen to his music, also you will find when the victums' parents tried to sue the enterainment companies that produced the music, games, and movies, the judge dismissed it imeadiatly. The blaming of games and enterainment media is all on THE MEDIA itself not and conpiracies behind it, there is no fals flag operations. they blamed ENTERAINMENT MEDIA on those killings alone. They rarely ever even spoke out on the mental health or problems the two were having at the school.
 

GhosT

Dojo Trainee
Blaming drugs is an easy "solution" to a much more complex problem. However, people who have had psychiatric treatment, especially those cases that warranted drugs, should not be allowed to buy guns without having to submit to a background check. I can't believe this is still a discussion.

You can blame any scapegoat you like. How many people have to die so that you can fast-track a gun or not have to change your clip as often?

Other countries have shown that this type of legislature works fine. All this "WE'RE MURICA FUCK THE GOV'MENT WE NEED OUR GUNS" rhetoric is not helping anything when mass shootings are becoming a common occurrence. The NRA is a lobbying group devoted to making the arms industry as much money as possible. They, like pretty much every other corporate lobbying group, are not in it for you; they are in it for themselves, and they are a detrimental force in the nation.
Shut up you are extremely unintelligent. This is a discussion about whether medications affect shootings. Everyone knows there is always a gun involved.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
 

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
Shut up you are extremely unintelligent. This is a discussion about whether medications affect shootings. Everyone knows there is always a gun involved.

The OP says magazine restrictions/gun bans aren't the solution; I'm arguing that. And I'm arguing that being prescribed medication indicates having mental or emotional issues, and those people shouldn't be given guns readily. You're missing my point, so maybe don't be so aggressive?

Also, if you're gonna call me unintelligent, probably don't do it in a run-on sentence, son :p
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
Shut up you are extremely unintelligent. This is a discussion about whether medications affect shootings. Everyone knows there is always a gun involved.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2
Unfortunately its not as you say we cannot discuss just this one aspect and his staements actually have some valid concepts involved, I do not agree with them 100%, but he has some good points worth discussing.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
The OP says magazine restrictions/gun bans aren't the solution; I'm arguing that.

Also, if you're gonna call me unintelligent, probably don't do it in a run-on sentence, son :p
I agree that crazies shouldn't be getting guns and banning guns will just ensure more insanity will occur in the future if someone wants a gun they will get one.
 
Nice work Scoot. If you look at the insert of these drugs/vaccines it makes you wonder why people put this toxic shit in their system.

You get scurvy because you lack vitamin C.

You're not depressed because you lack Zoloft.

And another thing, good luck getting off this shit once you're dependent on it. People say it's worse nicotine.
 

Groove Heaven

Jobber-baron
I agree that crazies shouldn't be getting guns and banning guns will just ensure more insanity will occur in the future if someone wants a gun they will get one.
"People will just break a law" is not a compelling or logically sound argument to not have that law. I'm not saying "ban guns." I'm saying "end the fact that people with emotional/mental issues can walk into a store and walk out with a burner." I'm sure some will turn to black market dealers, but it will be a minority.

The whole field of psychiatry needs an overhaul, and the pharmaceutical industry needs to have less of a hand in it. Issues need to be worked out with therapy, and chemical imbalances need to have medication prescribed carefully (which is not the case today). I know some shooters were pushed over the edge by their medication, but a psychological issue is the underlying problem, and most are not given the help they truly need.