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"Will you not listen to reason?!" Martian Manhunter discussion thread!

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
OK, so started fishing around with some tech for MMH. Nothing revolutionary though. Probably even discovered too.

#1) the d3 part of f2 d3 is actually a really damn good move. It's got great range on it and is really safe for a slide. The frame data says something like -10, but if done from a distance is actually safe. Superman can't punish it from max distance.

#2) Because of the way people rise, if your opponent doesn't roll after a bf3, you get a free left/right mixup on the opponent. there is a window where when they are getting up, they lean forward before standing, while still vulnerable. If MMH hits at this time with his overhead teleport, it can be a crossup. You will be super mad punishable if it whiffs, but doing it too early makes you land infront, as well as waiting too long.

#3) Definitely not new but Trait + 3 at the start of a match is way too damn good.
 
STB Shujinkydink

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
Espio said:
Is anyone doing cross up jump 3, standing 3? Haven't been doing this personally...yet, but standing 3 is safe on block and it could be a decent cross up into a normal, if it hits you do like 19% and can place an orb.

Not anything special or ground breaking.




Wait...are you serious or trolling? I actually think he's around 12 or so currently.

If trolling, I'm dumb, if serious why?
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I just do t think he has the tools to beat the top tier
 
Rickyraws

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
Espio said:
Is anyone doing cross up jump 3, standing 3? Haven't been doing this personally...yet, but standing 3 is safe on block and it could be a decent cross up into a normal, if it hits you do like 19% and can place an orb.

Not anything special or ground breaking.




Wait...are you serious or trolling? I actually think he's around 12 or so currently.

If trolling, I'm dumb, if serious why?
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uumm....he's.....trolling...........
 
Clark

Clark

Hides behind armor
MMH is easily top 10. I put him at 7 or 8. Excellent meterless damage, every combo leads into multiple different setups, with trait activated he has some of the best midranged footsies in the game, and builds meter faster than almost anyone. And if you're on point with instant air teleports, you can punish almost anything from full screen.
 
Zero-Shift

Zero-Shift

B-List Hero
I don't like the top whatever train of thought but to suggest MMH isn't a viable character to compete with is just absurd. He may not be top but he easily has the tools to compete and we're already seeing them being put into practice.

Time will tell but at the moment I don't see how he could possibly be considered any worse than upper mid tier based on what he has and what we've seen done with him in the short time he's been out.
 
Colonel-Gilgamesh

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
MMH is powerful because of how effective he is at all ranges. If he pins you down a max screen, Alien Pillar and the meteor are both excellent projectiles/space controllers, not to mention MB Pillar nets a combo. His trait has great control ofmid range with select moves, 3 being one ofthe most notable. He does lack that control without it, but that's more than most characters who control 2 ranges max. Up close his moves are mostly safe(And a few massively + on block like the orbs) and he has good highs and lows as well as a great wakeup game. Almost makes me wonder why we even bother to teleport when we're perfectly comfortable wherever we are on the screen.
 
FrozenG3oX

FrozenG3oX

<3 gimmicks
Why did everyone say that MMH has no wake ups and whatever...he has one of the best wake ups in Injustice, if not the best....
 
Zero-Shift

Zero-Shift

B-List Hero
FrozenG3oX said:
Why did everyone say that MMH has no wake ups and whatever...he has one of the best wake ups in Injustice, if not the best....
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His wake-up isn't god awful but it's far from the best. His only wake-up worth mentioning from my experience is Push since it actually has some invulnerability frames and can afford you some breaking room. Still by itself it's just not a very scary move mostly because you can't seem to convert into good damage off it like, say, Killer Frost and Black Adam can theirs.

I think people were only saying he has no wake-up in the early days when we were trying to teleport out of the corner. We quickly learned that was a bad idea since teleport is generally a terrible wake-up attack.
 
FrozenG3oX

FrozenG3oX

<3 gimmicks
Zero-Shift said:
His wake-up isn't god awful but it's far from the best. His only wake-up worth mentioning from my experience is Push since it actually has some invulnerability frames and can afford you some breaking room. Still by itself it's just not a very scary move mostly because you can't seem to convert into good damage off it like, say, Killer Frost and Black Adam can theirs.

I think people were only saying he has no wake-up in the early days when we were trying to teleport out of the corner. We quickly learned that was a bad idea since teleport is generally a terrible wake-up attack.
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its a very good " get off" move and safe as hell :| what mroe do you want ?
 
Zero-Shift

Zero-Shift

B-List Hero
FrozenG3oX said:
its a very good " get off" move and safe as hell :| what mroe do you want ?
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Being able to convert it into a combo for 20%+ damage. His wake-up game is perfectly serviceable. I just think saying it's one of the best is a bit much.

I'm honestly having a hard time finding any serious weaknesses with J'onn but at the same time, no tremendous strengths either. Like Green Lantern he's super well rounded but unlike GL he's not a two-dimensional flowchart character. I think that's why he's so fun and rewarding to play. He's got the tools to hang with everybody but you need to earn that win and play smart. God I love playing this guy.
 
FrozenG3oX

FrozenG3oX

<3 gimmicks
Zero-Shift said:
Being able to convert it into a combo for 20%+ damage. His wake-up game is perfectly serviceable. I just think saying it's one of the best is a bit much.

I'm honestly having a hard time finding any serious weaknesses with J'onn but at the same time, no tremendous strengths either. Like Green Lantern he's super well rounded but unlike GL he's not a two-dimensional flowchart character. I think that's why he's so fun and rewarding to play. He's got the tools to hang with everybody but you need to earn that win and play smart. God I love playing this guy.
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that wouldn't be fair. if you ask me, every wake up in a fighting game should be: safe- low reward
unsfafe-high reward
and MMH's push is fuckin' safe yo....is you MB it, its ok damage i think
 
Zero-Shift

Zero-Shift

B-List Hero
FrozenG3oX said:
that wouldn't be fair. if you ask me, every wake up in a fighting game should be: safe- low reward
unsfafe-high reward
and MMH's push is fuckin' safe yo....is you MB it, its ok damage i think
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You're missing my point. I was never debating you that his wake-up is bad. Just that it isn't the best. I'm well aware it's safe and has a good hit-box and all that jazz. I main him after all. Regardless of your personal design mentality, it just doesn't apply in this game. Black Adam and Killer Frost both have invincible wake-up attacks that are safer on block and can be converted into painful combos on hit. MMH's is fair which is why I don't think it's among the best.

Now if teleport was an invincible wake-up attack, this would be a whole new conversation entirely. :D
 
FrozenG3oX

FrozenG3oX

<3 gimmicks
Zero-Shift said:
You're missing my point. I was never debating you that his wake-up is bad. Just that it isn't the best. I'm well aware it's safe and has a good hit-box and all that jazz. I main him after all. Regardless of your personal design mentality, it just doesn't apply in this game. Black Adam and Killer Frost both have invincible wake-up attacks that are safer on block and can be converted into painful combos on hit. MMH's is fair which is why I don't think it's among the best.

Now if teleport was an invincible wake-up attack, this would be a whole new conversation entirely. :D
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name ur top five 5 wake ups...MMH's push is top 5
 
Zero-Shift

Zero-Shift

B-List Hero
FrozenG3oX said:
name ur top five 5 wake ups...MMH's push is top 5
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I won't make a top 5 because I haven't played enough to be confident in which the best are but I can at least mention a few moves that make me second guess rushing down the other guy when he's knocked down more so than MMH. Just remember, I'm no expert.

-BA's Lightning Cage
-KF's Slide
-Superman's Super
-Doomsday's MB Venom
-HQ's Tantrum Stance into Cartwheel
-Grundy's Walking Corpse and MB Chain grab
-Bane's trait buffed Double Punch and Body Press

Not like my opinion really matters in the grand scheme of things. MMH's at least has an invincible wake-up attack that can stop pressure. That in and of itself is good enough for it to be a viable alternative to blocking on wake-up. It's just in my opinion at the time is that an 8% damage wake-up attack that knocks the enemy clear away as far as they can go from you isn't quite as threatening as ones that result in big damage or a knockdown where you're close enough to work your own oki game. It's good, just not the best in my opinion.

Even though we disagree I can still where you're coming from though. Considering the primary way to deal with wake-up is bait and punish, having a wake-up with a hitbox that good that's also safe is pretty sweet. Reduces their option to bulldozing though it with armor.
 
Treadmill

Treadmill

Champion
Being full screen against mmh is a bad situation. His wake up is great as far as how it compliments his game.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk 2
 
Zero-Shift

Zero-Shift

B-List Hero
Treadmill said:
Being full screen against mmh is a bad situation. His wake up is great as far as how it compliments his game.
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I completely agree, but does that warrant the claim J'onn's wake-up is among the in the game? If multiple people say yes I'll have to try being more liberal with it and see how I do. :)
 
FrozenG3oX

FrozenG3oX

<3 gimmicks
Zero-Shift said:
I won't make a top 5 because I haven't played enough to be confident in which the best are but I can at least mention a few moves that make me second guess rushing down the other guy when he's knocked down more so than MMH. Just remember, I'm no expert.

-BA's Lightning Cage
-KF's Slide
-Superman's Super
-Doomsday's MB Venom
-HQ's Tantrum Stance into Cartwheel
-Grundy's Walking Corpse and MB Chain grab
-Bane's trait buffed Double Punch and Body Press

Not like my opinion really matters in the grand scheme of things. MMH's at least has an invincible wake-up attack that can stop pressure. That in and of itself is good enough for it to be a viable alternative to blocking on wake-up. It's just in my opinion at the time is that an 8% damage wake-up attack that knocks the enemy clear away as far as they can go from you isn't quite as threatening as ones that result in big damage or a knockdown where you're close enough to work your own oki game. It's good, just not the best in my opinion.

Even though we disagree I can still where you're coming from though. Considering the primary way to deal with wake-up is bait and punish, having a wake-up with a hitbox that good that's also safe is pretty sweet. Reduces their option to bulldozing though it with armor.
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super counts ? its not like you can wake up with it eveytime...its a one time deal.You can intrerupt doomsday venom before he MB it...depends when he does it.I still think u can put MMH's push up there
 
Zero-Shift

Zero-Shift

B-List Hero
FrozenG3oX said:
super counts ? its not like you can wake up with it eveytime...its a one time deal.You can intrerupt doomsday venom before he MB it...depends when he does it.I still think u can put MMH's push up there
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Fair enough. Bottom line is it does the trick and at least he has a wake-up game worth mentioning.. I'm sure we can at least agree the initial sucky wake-up claims were from people trying to wake-up with teleport, right? :D

And yeah, I was hesitant to put the super in there but I think it bears special mention because a good Supes builds meter so easily and the damn move just shuts down pressure of any kind really badly.
 
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