General/Other Suggestions for fixes and changes in the New Patch.

[BoricuaHeat]

Probably known to be the last big patch to be released to our bread and butter Injustice, we should get some changes posted to make sure the Flash can stay at a good niche of balance.

EDIT: Generally agreed so far changes so far: No changes to any of the utility of his moves, damage, trait damage and dash. Fixes would involve RMS 1 and 2 whiffing and uppercut whiffing straight through the opponent.

Right now he's almost there, but these are following problems I believe should be addressed:

Remove any chance of jailing standing opponents with Lighting Charge (BF2) MB and less push back off normal Charge. This move should only be used to punish brain dead zoning mistakes that are usually not possible with Flash's normals (Like a Killer Frost using Ice Pillar at starting round distance). Not a get in for free on many characters randomly and if they block the normal charge, Flash should get full combo punished, so yeah closer to the opponent if they block it so everyone can get in on that scarlet ass.

Less damage after combos from Lighting Charge MB. We shouldn't be getting 32% off one little mistake from our opposition, or 26% into a free 50/50 mix up with reversed inputs. Increase scaling after MB charge so the basic BnB's, all do less damage (at least 6%).

The most crucial fix in my opinion is balancing his charge, he already got a dash buff, an over the top one at that, so this should not affect his game plan on getting in and applying pressure.

Other Changes would be suggestions from all your posts, then we can all agree on a list of fixes and make a thread about it, if this is the last patch for a long while, we gotta make sure they get it right.

My other suggestions (Not confident in them, some are dream suggestions which would have to be huddled up with damage nerfs to even have them pass by). Also adding more suggestions as the thread goes by

EDIT: REALIZE these are not changes just topics to choose from and explain your reasoning behind the suggestion like say; I want his trait damage nerfed but I would also like extra time in trait for more mix ups and better footsie game.

Nerf Trait damage?
Nerf his Damage?
Nerf his Forward Dash back to pre patch and give his new forward dash after canceling from Lighting Kick?
Increase Start up frames of Charge?
Nerf Distance Normal Lighting Charge can travel?
Make only RMS charge Meter Burnable?
Safer moves of RMS (Ground Pound -9 on block instead of -17) and fixed whiffing of RMS pound.
Allow 112 follow up after RMS Ground Pound.
Fix B22 whiffing on most of the cast from certain ranges, fix his mid's. You know what just fix everyone's mid's or have them listed as high's. mid's should hit mid dammit.
Fix all trait glitches (Getting back down to zero after losing clash while not in trait)
Faster Recovery off RMS cancel like 2 frames ( I WANT KABAL PRESSURE PUHWEASE).
Raw F2 to combo into RMS Charge(F1).
Longer Duration of trait (an extra 3 seconds minimum)
B3 faster (decrease start up frames by 3 or more) or more forward momentum (Ala Batman/MMH), preferably both. Man universal F3/B3 buff haha.
Fix RMS Charge whiffing at any distance (F1).
Remove Invincibility frames off of Charge on wake up and maybe add them to his phase dodge (db1), if you get knocked down as the Flash your options for getting them off you should be a yolo uppercut or just blocking. Charge on Wake Up allows for flash players to just get out.

Well that's all my crap, discuss to agree or disagree on what needs fixing with Flash. Would love to have everyone chip in their opinions on the matter.

AK Harold
Zyphox
LEGEND
SaJa
Solo_
SEV
Xenrail
brizzle
SidTheHaze
Hiltzy85
AYSAMO
Carcass_br
Moiravus
xFriction_Burnx

If I miss anyone my bad, find your way to thread and post up!

 

[Doombawkz]

Honestly its nice to see someone saying that MB charge needs to not hit only some of the cast on crouch block.
I wouldn't mind seeing his trait last a little longer but scale a bit harder, I'm a little sad only seeing its use in combos and would enjoy some good footsie play based around it.
Fix the mids would be great, imo his damage off of MB charge is fine for its cost (1 bar for 33% isn't much).
I feel like his tatsu should be just a little bit faster, but that's just me.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Honestly its nice to see someone saying that MB charge needs to not hit only some of the cast on crouch block.
I wouldn't mind seeing his trait last a little longer but scale a bit harder, I'm a little sad only seeing its use in combos and would enjoy some good footsie play based around it.
Fix the mids would be great, imo his damage off of MB charge is fine for its cost (1 bar for 33% isn't much).
I feel like his tatsu should be just a little bit faster, but that's just me.

Yeah trait has a lot of potential to really open up flash's footsie game, 3 extra seconds with harder scaling would make everyone happy. adding to suggestions

As for tatsu (b3) couldn't think of much since F3 is so good, maybe more forward movement to allow a frame trap, compensate for the slow start up? adding to suggestions.

I just believe we shouldn't be getting 30% off a lucky charge into free mix ups which avoid wake ups but eh, that's just me.

 

[_xFriction]

fix the mids. fix wakeups and rms LC going through opponents.

other than that i think he's fine.

but an instant air LC where the MB version travels downwards would be tight.

 

[Doombawkz]

Yeah trait has a lot of potential to really open up flash's footsie game, 3 extra seconds with harder scaling would make everyone happy. adding to suggestions

As for tatsu (b3) couldn't think of much since F3 is so good, maybe more forward movement to allow a frame trap, compensate for the slow start up? adding to suggestions.

I just believe we shouldn't be getting 30% off a lucky charge into free mix ups which avoid wake ups but eh, that's just me.

To be fair, if you guess wrong on the "lucky charge" then you get punished for more. If you are making the read, spending 1 bar to get 33% is no different than doing the same for a MB b.3.

My logic with Tatsu is that his combos all revolve around the same central point of trait = damage. Making it a bit faster would allow his combos to diversify a bit and give him options outside of the usual 3 or 4.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

fix the mids. fix wakeups and rms LC going through opponents.

other than that i think he's fine.

but an instant air LC where the MB version travels downwards would be tight.

RMS LC is pretty buggy will add, instant air LC sounds so much like a dive kick we don't need, do want haha.

 

[Rampage254]

That character is fine. Adapt.

 

[doomfarmer]

Nerf the Flash? The fuck outta here with that.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

To be fair, if you guess wrong on the "lucky charge" then you get punished for more. If you are making the read, spending 1 bar to get 33% is no different than doing the same for a MB b.3.

My logic with Tatsu is that his combos all revolve around the same central point of trait = damage. Making it a bit faster would allow his combos to diversify a bit and give him options outside of the usual 3 or 4.

I was thinking more along the lines of Tatsu adding extra options for pressure, Flash already gets around 30 to 40% off any combo involving his Tatsu, but more diversity does sound nice.

Yeah reading the opponent and getting a successful charge after he just keeps jumping back is satisfying, but to be fair its full screen and its on the same level of Cat Dash, while MB B3 armor can be hit through with MB charge if mistimed. I gotta play around with charge more to really justify a damage nerf I suppose.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

doomfarmer Minor fixes bro, Charge is ridiculous in its current state and only a couple of members of the cast can't punish it consistently, besides with this thread we can get all the right changes instead of NRS going nuts with nerfs or buffs.

Rampage254 No he's too fine, needs some fixes on his charge so everyone can punish it and maybe a damage nerf on his charge (or his overall damage).

 

[Hellion_96]

Make MB Flying uppercut useful fix his b22f3 so it always hits and doesn't randomly whiff. That's about it I say leave him as is if anything

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Make MB Flying uppercut useful fix his b22f3 so it always hits and doesn't randomly whiff. That's about it I say leave him as is if anything

MB Flying Uppercut did you mean his Charge Meter Burned?

Mid's getting fixed gotta be a priority for the entire cast.

 

[AK Harold]

fix the mids. fix wakeups and rms LC going through opponents.

other than that i think he's fine.

but an instant air LC where the MB version travels downwards would be tight.

Flash with any air move at all would be fairly ridiculous. I would like his speed dodge MB changed to have some type of application at all. Longer trait with different scaling would be pretty sick, but would hurt on time out concerns.
His B3 is good as is for his tool set, making it any better would make him do godly chip damage since he is a frame trap character.
Damage - his average damage is on par with the line up as is. His specialty being 50/50 and close up only is acceptable as others can meterless 40% or 1meter 50% no trait in addition to having a ranged attack.

 

[Hellion_96]

doomfarmer Minor fixes bro, Charge is ridiculous in its current state and only a couple of members of the cast can't punish it consistently, besides with this thread we can get all the right changes instead of NRS going nuts with nerfs or buffs.

Rampage254 No he's too fine, needs some fixes on his charge so everyone can punish it and maybe a damage nerf on his charge (or his overall damage).

His charge is fine. It's full combo punishable MB or not and it acts like a deterrent against backdashing and just walking back. Also it's designed to punish careless zoning why is it fair for killer frost to have a safe far advancing move a 50/50 vortex and zoning punishment anywhere on the screen but flash can't have similar unsafe tools?

 

[Hellion_96]

MB Flying Uppercut did you mean his Charge Meter Burned?

Mid's getting fixed gotta be a priority for the entire cast.

I meant is move called Flying uppercut lol it's actually called that. His 6 frame anti air looking move

 

[_xFriction]

yeah, the angle needs changed on either d2 or LU. both are the same.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Hellion_96 hah my bad man got a terrible memory. Uppercut is fine as it is maybe fix it from whiffing up close.

Also the problem with that comparison would be that is all Killer Frost's got as much as I know besides her F3 and b1 to also leading vortex set up she doesn't have any other noteworthy tools that I know off as of now. Flash on the other hand has a barrage of set ups off anything he hits you with and his charge is even better than KF's at punishing careless zoning mistakes and can sometimes jail standing opponents and that should not be the case we should get punished for them properly avoiding an 11 frame full screen punisher, these changes won't affect its ability to punish good read on them back dashing too.

AK Harold I got some tech with phase meter burned that I'll be posting. As for a fix make it untechable knockdown? Not really sure.

B3 being better would be a good change if he gets a damage nerf, which likely won't happen just throwing suggestions out there for discussion. His damage is fine with meter but if they do nerf it, they would have to give him better pressure tools to compensate and overall a lot more fun and engaging to play.

Agreed fixes so far are fixing his mid's (universal), uppercut whiffing, and RMS Charge Whiffing up close.

 

[AK Harold]

With LC as good as it is there is little reason to consider using upper. I dunno how to balance Flash really, he can take so much damage before he gets in some match ups so taking away the tools from those matches would hurt a lot. But then there are some MU he can dominate, BUT to this day I have yet to hear any player say that their worst matchup is Flash never not ever. Yes they hate playing a good one, but they never say their nightmare matchup is Flash. I think he is in a good spot upper tier.

 

[AK Harold]

Hellion_96 hah my bad man got a terrible memory. Uppercut is fine as it is maybe fix it from whiffing up close.

Also the problem with that comparison would be that is all Killer Frost's got as much as I know besides her F3 and b1 to also leading vortex set up she doesn't have any other noteworthy tools that I know off as of now. Flash on the other hand has a barrage of set ups off anything he hits you with and his charge is even better than KF's at punishing careless zoning mistakes and can sometimes jail standing opponents and that should not be the case we should get punished for them properly avoiding an 11 frame full screen punisher, these changes won't affect its ability to punish good read on them back dashing too.

AK Harold I got some tech with phase meter burned that I'll be posting. As for a fix make it untechable knockdown? Not really sure.

B3 being better would be a good change if he gets a damage nerf, which likely won't happen just throwing suggestions out there for discussion. His damage is fine with meter but if they do nerf it, they would have to give him better pressure tools to compensate and overall a lot more fun and engaging to play.

Agreed fixes so far are fixing his mid's (universal), uppercut whiffing, and RMS Charge Whiffing up close.

If they nerf metered damage, then they have to give him more meterless damage. He has baby dick damage without meter or trait. Maybe make RMS 1 2 3 combo extenders naturally would be very cool looking and useful.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

If they nerf metered damage, then they have to give him more meterless damage. He has baby dick damage without meter or trait. Maybe make RMS 1 2 3 combo extenders naturally would be very cool looking and useful.

RMS 2 looks like it was meant to be a combo extender man, if they nerf meter damage then meterless would have to be an average of 22 to 30% off anything really, but right now he gets 28% off his d2 and 27% off a jump in meterless. For now lets see where this thread's agreed suggestions leads to.

 

[Zyphox]

BoricuaHeat am sorry but i have to disagree about nerfing the flash, i don't even think that superman should be nerfed to heavily tbh. i hate nerfing characters, buff the weak one's and have them compete. think about this for a second why on earth does regular LC need to be so punishable? he gets nothing off it, except a hard knock down and 9%. MB LC you are spending a bar dude, for the flash to get a bar in this game he needs to either do damage to you or take damage from you, or LK cancel dashing which is risky in certain MU's. why on earth would it be ok to remove the jailing on it? i am spending a bar, and putting full combo potential risk just to get in or do 31%, were not trying to make another scorpion here dude. also if they do fix his mids then we just got a buff, i don't see a reason why you ask for these nerfes or fixes. his damage is fine off of trait, why? because i only have access to those combos every 20 seconds, and in the 2nd half of life, if they clash, transition or super it resets, so thats balanced. i am really interested in knowing why you want the flash nerfed? pls reply.

 

[AK Harold]

BoricuaHeat am sorry but i have to disagree about nerfing the flash, i don't even think that superman should be nerfed to heavily tbh. i hate nerfing characters, buff the weak one's and have them compete. think about this for a second why on earth does regular LC need to be so punishable? he gets nothing off it, except a hard knock down and 9%. MB LC you are spending a bar dude, for the flash to get a bar in this game he needs to either do damage to you or take damage from you, or LK cancel dashing which is risky in certain MU's. why on earth would it be ok to remove the jailing on it? i am spending a bar, and putting full combo potential risk just to get in or do 31%, were not trying to make another scorpion here dude. also if they do fix his mids then we just got a buff, i don't see a reason why you ask for these nerfes or fixes. his damage is fine off of trait, why? because i only have access to those combos every 20 seconds, and in the 2nd half of life, if they clash, transition or super it resets, so thats balanced. i am really interested in knowing why you want the flash nerfed? pls reply.

Nope nerf him !

 

[Zyphox]

Nope nerf him !

 

[BoricuaHeat]

BoricuaHeat am sorry but i have to disagree about nerfing the flash, i don't even think that superman should be nerfed to heavily tbh. i hate nerfing characters, buff the weak one's and have them compete. think about this for a second why on earth does regular LC need to be so punishable? he gets nothing off it, except a hard knock down and 9%. MB LC you are spending a bar dude, for the flash to get a bar in this game he needs to either do damage to you or take damage from you, or LK cancel dashing which is risky in certain MU's. why on earth would it be ok to remove the jailing on it? i am spending a bar, and putting full combo potential risk just to get in or do 31%, were not trying to make another scorpion here dude. also if they do fix his mids then we just got a buff, i don't see a reason why you ask for these nerfes or fixes. his damage is fine off of trait, why? because i only have access to those combos every 20 seconds, and in the 2nd half of life, if they clash, transition or super it resets, so thats balanced. i am really interested in knowing why you want the flash nerfed? pls reply.

Not much of a nerf really just a quick fix, the suggestions in the opening post are just there for people to choose from and elaborate on what they think.

The point of nerfing normal charge is so the cast can actually consistently punish it if they block it (some punishes are finicky), hard knock down is already huge for me in many match ups (Supes Match up especially). As for MB jailing, there is no full combo risk if it jails +3 on block and a free get in card from more than half the screen when we already have the best dash in the game just doesn't seem right to me, the damage nerfing on charge is something I have been thinking about because mb lighting charge should be a secondary tool and not a main source of damage but I am still considering if the damage nerf is justified give me some time and I'll give my final opinion on that.

Damage modification on trait is again another suggestion, if they do nerf the damage then we need at least a couple of seconds or more during trait to get more mix ups and footsie tools instead of just an access to corner carry. Besides they should fix trait getting reset after transitions and supers so it doesn't go back to zero when we are almost done charging up the last bolt that should not be intended.

So yeah man don't worry bout it! I really just want some little fixes for the patch (walk speed buffs!) and an agreed consensus to possibly make sure NRS doesn't go nuts with either nerfing or buffing the Flash.

 

[Zyphox]

Not much of a nerf really just a quick fix, the suggestions in the opening post are just there for people to choose from and elaborate on what they think.

The point of nerfing normal charge is so the cast can actually consistently punish it if they block it (some punishes are finicky), hard knock down is already huge for me in many match ups (Supes Match up especially). As for MB jailing, there is no full combo risk if it jails +3 on block and a free get in card from more than half the screen when we already have the best dash in the game just doesn't seem right to me, the damage nerfing on charge is something I have been thinking about because mb lighting charge should be a secondary tool and not a main source of damage but I am still considering if the damage nerf is justified give me some time and I'll give my final opinion on that.

Damage modification on trait is again another suggestion, if they do nerf the damage then we need at least a couple of seconds or more during trait to get more mix ups and footsie tools instead of just an access to corner carry. Besides they should fix trait getting reset after transitions and supers so it doesn't go back to zero when we are almost done charging up the last bolt that should not be intended.

So yeah man don't worry bout it! I really just want some little fixes for the patch (walk speed buffs!) and an agreed consensus to possibly make sure NRS doesn't go nuts with either nerfing or buffing the Flash.

dude trust me they will not nerf the flash, lets just say i have an inside source, but lets talk about MB LC. there are three possibilities when you use this move. either a) it hits and you get a full combo into oki set up b) its blocked high (or low on bigs) and now the flash is +3. the opponent has a couple of options, if they read a d1d2 the entire cast can backdash and even whiff punish sometimes. they can backwards jump it also and certain characters like BA and GL get a rocket or divekick punish for it. if they read you will try to b22 or f21 to catch a backdash they can MB b3. option c) they duck and full combo punish you, this is self explanatory, you just spent a bar of meter to get full combo'd but yeah lets nerf this move. give me an example of a move that when MB on block in this game gives you opponent a full combo punish? every single character in this game can full combo punished a ducked MB LC, if done on big characters outside a certain range they to can punish. it just doesn't make sense that you want to nerf this move man.