General/Other Suggestions for fixes and changes in the New Patch.

[Zyphox]

also they will not be fixing the trait reset stuff from what i heard nor these pseudo mids.

 

[AYSAMO]

I think Flash is fine for the most part. I think that his traitless BnBs should scale more though, because you can easily get 30-45% without trait. I think his trait damage is absolutely fair, because how often do you get to use it? Maybe twice a match, if you're really lucky.

Realistically, you're going to get a trait combo in round 1 or 2, but once they get to their second healthbar they will almost never clash until they see you activate trait. Now they're at a huge advantage even if they lose the clash. They will take less damage from Clash then you're traitless BnB, and if they win you now don't have a trait to even the odds for 20 seconds. That's HUGE.

Also, two of his specials need to be looked at.

1 - Flying uppercut is total ass. I have no idea what the hitbox on this move is. It goes through your opponent almost 90% of the time you try to use it, or just flat out whiffs because the hitbox is awful. This move needs to be actually reliable outside of really specific punishes. Give me Batgirl's DP.

2 - Running Man Stance. Why is this even a move? All it's good for is making d12 a pain in the ass to hit confirm into LK.


Wouldnt mind b2 being faster either, I could actually use it as a footsies tool instead of getting blown up on whiff every time by the whole cast who have much better options. I dont care if they nerf everything else about him as long as b2 gets some sort of buff.

 

[Doombawkz]

With LC as good as it is there is little reason to consider using upper. I dunno how to balance Flash really, he can take so much damage before he gets in some match ups so taking away the tools from those matches would hurt a lot. But then there are some MU he can dominate, BUT to this day I have yet to hear any player say that their worst matchup is Flash never not ever. Yes they hate playing a good one, but they never say their nightmare matchup is Flash. I think he is in a good spot upper tier.

Bane's worst MU is Flash, so let me be the first to say it.
BA has lightning, but we can at least fish him out of wake-up and he can't really pressure us outside of that lightning and dive kicks.
Flash can rush us down and we can't do anything about it, we can't pressure him on wake-up, and we can't duck MB lightning charge.

Its a 2-8 in Flash's favour, and the only reason BA is even considered a 2-8 is because we can never get in on him.

 

[SEV]

BoricuaHeat Buffing his meterless damage would probably make his standing vortex too strong in my opinion and I think his meter'ed damage is fine as some of the cast can get similar damage meterless. 32% off LC is fine I think and people just have to learn not to do unsafe things within LC range and duck on reaction to punish it, after all he is considered a punish character. Maybe make Flying Uppercut meter burnable with less recovery so that you can get a D1D2 LK follow up(can currently do this off a Flying Uppercut AA for 20%); very small damage for 1 meter so I think it is a fair trade off. His B3 is fine the way it is in my opinion. I would like to see some viability for MB Speed Dodge as it currently works against you but to change it in anyway so that it's viable would probably break his balance; maybe allow Speed Dodge to be used in combo to allow for its spacing off of the MB for the cost of 1 meter or to catch people pressing buttons after a block string. Also to fix his "mids" would make him way too strong unless if frame data is changed considering 11 is an 8 frame start up that leaves you +8 which would mean he has a block infinite off of one string, lol.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

dude trust me they will not nerf the flash, lets just say i have an inside source, but lets talk about MB LC. there are three possibilities when you use this move. either a) it hits and you get a full combo into oki set up b) its blocked high (or low on bigs) and now the flash is +3. the opponent has a couple of options, if they read a d1d2 the entire cast can backdash and even whiff punish sometimes. they can backwards jump it also and certain characters like BA and GL get a rocket or divekick punish for it. if they read you will try to b22 or f21 to catch a backdash they can MB b3. option c) they duck and full combo punish you, this is self explanatory, you just spent a bar of meter to get full combo'd but yeah lets nerf this move. give me an example of a move that when MB on block in this game gives you opponent a full combo punish? every single character in this game can full combo punished a ducked MB LC, if done on big characters outside a certain range they to can punish. it just doesn't make sense that you want to nerf this move man.

Only reason for nerfing is so its uses would be limited to punishing poor zoning mistakes, and dumb backwards jumping. Flash at +3 can frame trap with his 9 frame d2 and trade with say BA and still get a combo off a trade and if they back dash your d2 you can still block because it recovers so fast (I still haven't tested d2 versus mb3) and I am aware certain characters can punish a whiffed raw charge with some of their special moves but that's to be expected with the move set they have (BA's Dive Kick to name one), other characters don't have that luxury.

I just want these changes so MB LC is used exclusively for a)Punishing moves outside of flash's range and b)Successfully punishing back dashes (maybe if you catch someone back dashing MB Charge should jail), and yeah Grundy's meter burn cleaver gives the same advantage as Flash's charge and can't be ducked, but again a full screen random get in for free card is just unnecessary in my opinion, even with these changes they still fear the charge and would have to scout and be ready to duck at anytime, it would still be effective while removing the random properties of it jailing from time to time.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

also they will not be fixing the trait reset stuff from what i heard nor these pseudo mids.

Ah c'mon, that's just dumb ah well no biggie.

AYSAMO Flash is a monster at the first round no fear go for the damage, unclashable trait tech is hard to use in match with how much limited time we have in trait so its kind of underwhelming, uppercut fix yes, mid's fix yes and RMS has its uses but not many still too soon to judge tho.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

BoricuaHeat Buffing his meterless damage would probably make his standing vortex too strong in my opinion and I think his meter'ed damage is fine as some of the cast can get similar damage meterless. 32% off LC is fine, I think and people just have to learn not to do unsafe things within LC range and duck on reaction to punish it, after all he is considered a punish character. Maybe make Flying Uppercut meter burnable with less recovery so that you can get a D1D2 LK follow up(can currently do this off a Flying Uppercut AA for 20%); very small damage for 1 meter so I think it is a fair trade off. His B3 is fine the way it is in my opinion. I would like to see some viability for MB Speed Dodge as it currently works against you but to change it in anyway so that it's viable would probably break his balance; maybe allow Speed Dodge to be used in combo to allow for its spacing off of the MB for the cost of 1 meter or to catch people pressing buttons after a block string. Also fix his "mids" would may him way too strong unless if frame data is changed considering 11 is an 8 frame start up that leaves you +8 which would mean he has a block infinite off of one string, lol.

Uppercut should get a fix to were it stops whiffing randomly. Charge damage can go unchanged I won't mind, actually 11 is +7 so even if its fixed, might not even cause a block infinite (adapt push block haha), meterless damage is fine too and speed dodge mb should be an untechable knockdown.

If what Zyphox's source says is legit then we might not get any fixes but it's nice to hope and discuss with all of ya!

 

[Zyphox]

Only reason for nerfing is so its uses would be limited to punishing poor zoning mistakes, and dumb backwards jumping. Flash at +3 can frame trap with his 9 frame d2 and trade with say BA and still get a combo off a trade and if they back dash your d2 you can still block because it recovers so fast (I still haven't tested d2 versus mb3) and I am aware certain characters can punish a whiffed raw charge with some of their special moves but that's to be expected with the move set they have (BA's Dive Kick to name one), other characters don't have that luxury.

I just want these changes so MB LC is used exclusively for a)Punishing moves outside of flash's range and b)Successfully punishing back dashes (maybe if you catch someone back dashing MB Charge should jail), and yeah Grundy's meter burn cleaver gives the same advantage as Flash's charge and can't be ducked, but again a full screen random get in for free card is just unnecessary in my opinion, even with these changes they still fear the charge and would have to scout and be ready to duck at anytime, it would still be effective while removing the random properties of it jailing from time to time.

yeah i feel you, but using moves in exclusivity is kinda pointless, look at d2? its supposed to be the universal anti right? what if they made it to where d2 only hit air born opponents? kinda dumb right? so just because ther are other uses for MB LC doesn't mean you should just get rid of his options from it. MB LC was designed to give flash a choice, thats why they buffed it to where it came out on block. you try to get in with it and if read you will be punished. so let all the noobs that spam that move get punished for over using it, thats fine. if you are using it smartly than more power to you and all the ones who you it, but nerfing it is pointless, we want a character with options, sometimes dashing up or walking forward isn't an option, like against batman, good luck getting chips out by trait + batarangs + MB batarangs + b23. if it weren't for charge having invincibility on wake up or the ability to jump a batarang that wasn't MB when he didn't have a trait bat out flash would never get in. just the threat of MB LC after a jumped batarang will leave batman ducking for a few seconds where the flash player can now make a read and dash up to get in or MB LC and take a risk. but if you nerf it now batman will never have to sit still and he can whiff b23 all day knowing that if the flash player doesn't properly time his MB LC that i can just duck because it doesn't jail and i get a full 40%+ meterless, meter building combo. i say leave MB LC the way it is, its not hurting anyone, and if it is then they need to adapt and learn the MU and if flash players spam it out and get punished for it then they need to adapt and learn as well.

 

[SEV]

If what Zyphox's source says is legit then we might not get any fixes but it's nice to hope and discuss with all of ya!

I doubt he will be buffed or "fixed" in any way. He is currently in a good spot tier wise(I have him as #11 but somewhere between 8-12 is where he belongs imo) and with the potential nerfs/"fixes" being made to other characters he could potentially make his way to top 5 if he goes unchanged so to improve him in anyway would break him.

 

[PANDA]

Make his super 1 frame.
He needs it

 

[Zyphox]

Bane's worst MU is Flash, so let me be the first to say it.
BA has lightning, but we can at least fish him out of wake-up and he can't really pressure us outside of that lightning and dive kicks.
Flash can rush us down and we can't do anything about it, we can't pressure him on wake-up, and we can't duck MB lightning charge.

Its a 2-8 in Flash's favour, and the only reason BA is even considered a 2-8 is because we can never get in on him.

can you please tell every dumb bane player and even the flash players that said this is a 5-5 MU here in a post to see you say that? i've been saying it all along. the flash murders bane. if i read your wake up Mb B3 for 53% with trait, i get a free wake up everytime no consequence, i beat you armor out with standing 2, 112, j2, d1d2 if done correctly and i can phase you charge for full combo on reaction, plus get caught in de buff and your eating 70+% one bar and trait easy.

 

[SEV]

i say leave MB LC the way it is, its not hurting anyone, and if it is then they need to adapt and learn the MU and if flash players spam it out and get punished for it then they need to adapt and learn as well.

Good players that know the MU don't get hit by random LC, case and point.

 

[Doombawkz]

can you please tell every dumb bane player and even the flash players that said this is a 5-5 MU here in a post to see you say that? i've been saying it all along. the flash murders bane. if i read your wake up Mb B3 for 53% with trait, i get a free wake up everytime no consequence, i beat you armor out with standing 2, 112, j2, d1d2 if done correctly and i can phase you charge for full combo on reaction, plus get caught in de buff and your eating 70+% one bar and trait easy.

Haha most Banes in the Bane Character Council know it fully well. We remark how it used to be easier because your dash couldn't get deep enough to prevent us from poking you, and the charge was unsafe, but now we are on lock down and we need to make all perfect reads or we lose out instantly.

I will say this : If they make it possible to duck your MB charge, then the MU doesn't become as bad for us because by that point we can at least set up some poke and play with our armor a bit more. You breaking our armor comes from our need to respect your options, but if you remove that and give us even an inch to set up our own poke game, then the MU shifts because now we can abuse your lack of safe reaching options.

As it is now though, its not even fair. I do know though that on wake-up we can phase through you with b.2 and get a free punish if you do a wake-up lightning upper or something.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

yeah i feel you, but using moves in exclusivity is kinda pointless, look at d2? its supposed to be the universal anti right? what if they made it to where d2 only hit air born opponents? kinda dumb right? so just because ther are other uses for MB LC doesn't mean you should just get rid of his options from it. MB LC was designed to give flash a choice, thats why they buffed it to where it came out on block. you try to get in with it and if read you will be punished. so let all the noobs that spam that move get punished for over using it, thats fine. if you are using it smartly than more power to you and all the ones who you it, but nerfing it is pointless, we want a character with options, sometimes dashing up or walking forward isn't an option, like against batman, good luck getting chips out by trait + batarangs + MB batarangs + b23. if it weren't for charge having invincibility on wake up or the ability to jump a batarang that wasn't MB when he didn't have a trait bat out flash would never get in. just the threat of MB LC after a jumped batarang will leave batman ducking for a few seconds where the flash player can now make a read and dash up to get in or MB LC and take a risk. but if you nerf it now batman will never have to sit still and he can whiff b23 all day knowing that if the flash player doesn't properly time his MB LC that i can just duck because it doesn't jail and i get a full 40%+ meterless, meter building combo. i say leave MB LC the way it is, its not hurting anyone, and if it is then they need to adapt and learn the MU and if flash players spam it out and get punished for it then they need to adapt and learn as well.

D2 like that would give me the chills. Good point, I use Bane as a secondary and charge jails most of the time and it gets quite annoying to establish a pressure game. Even with the changes suggested it won't stop noobs from spamming it and the fear of charge will still be there (If it doesn't get changed I will find which characters it consistently jails on). And as for batman I can't really elaborate on that since I have not played a Batman who can manage his trait properly through out the whole match and punish my block strings after dashing in. But we can all agree if he even get's one justifiable nerf it should just be his charge that takes the hit and not his pressure or oki game and all the new tech that is being discovered. Still believe charge should be modified to just jail back dashers if that's even possible.

God I love discussing with ya and the other users on the Flash, breath of fresh air instead of just posting tech!

 

[SEV]

I will say this : If they make it possible to duck your MB charge...

Unsure whether or not they should change this to be universally punishable because there are other moves that exist that are punishable but not by the whole cast. To make the point that it should be punishable would be like saying, "That character can punish that move so I should be able to too!" which is kind of nonsensical.

 

[Zyphox]

D2 like that would give me the chills. Good point, I use Bane as a secondary and charge jails most of the time and it gets quite annoying to establish a pressure game. Even with the changes suggested it won't stop noobs from spamming it and the fear of charge will still be there (If it doesn't get changed I will find which characters it consistently jails on). And as for batman I can't really elaborate on that since I have not played a Batman who can manage his trait properly through out the whole match and punish my block strings after dashing in. But we can all agree if he even get's one justifiable nerf it should just be his charge that takes the hit and not his pressure or oki game and all the new tech that is being discovered. Still believe charge should be modified to just jail back dashers if that's even possible.

God I love discussing with ya and the other users on the Flash, breath of fresh air instead of just posting tech!

yeah man, but i think MB LC is balanced enough, for big characters, you use bane just venom armor through his follow up, backdash, NJ, if he does a d1 it will anti air you but can't follow up on it, if he does d2 though you gonna eat 41%

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Unsure whether or not they should change this to be universally punishable because there are other moves that exist that are punishable but not by the whole cast. To make the point that it should be punishable would be like saying, "That character can punish that move so I should be able to too!" which is kind of nonsensical.

Now that's just bad on there part (NRS), if a move is punishable up close by one character it should be punishable by another. This move is rather delicate to balance, one little screw up in changing it and could be a waste of meter as time goes on if they apply some ridiculous modification.

 

[Doombawkz]

Unsure whether or not they should change this to be universally punishable because there are other moves that exist that are punishable but not by the whole cast. To make the point that it should be punishable would be like saying, "That character can punish that move so I should be able to too!" which is kind of nonsensical.

We can duck KF daggers which literally phase through our bodies, but its not so much a "if they can we should too" so much as a "why can't we when we would be the ones most disadvantaged since we are universally slower and moves with similar hitboxes already whiff on us"

 

[BoricuaHeat]

yeah man, but i think MB LC is balanced enough, for big characters, you use bane just venom armor through his follow up, backdash, NJ, if he does a d1 it will anti air you but can't follow up on it, if he does d2 though you gonna eat 41%

Ah the trials of learning Bane at a high level, seriously tho if venom level 2 gave one special move two hits of armor this would elevate most of the problem I have with charge in the match up, but give Bane that and it screws up other characters match ups! Damn theory's

 

[Doombawkz]

yeah man, but i think MB LC is balanced enough, for big characters, you use bane just venom armor through his follow up, backdash, NJ, if he does a d1 it will anti air you but can't follow up on it, if he does d2 though you gonna eat 41%

41%? I'll make you eat 66% instead D:<

 

[Zyphox]

Ah the trials of learning Bane at a high level, seriously tho if venom level 2 gave one special move two hits of armor this would elevate most of the problem I have with charge in the match up, but give Bane that and it screws up other characters match ups! Damn theory's

yeah true man, they should give him that buff i like bane

 

[Doombawkz]

Real talk, the only reason I main Bane over Flash is because my execution window is hella low.
After playing him, I wouldn't main Flash now but I wish more than anything that I could second him because he is by far my favorite DC character. Dat charisma doe.

 

[BoricuaHeat]

Real talk, the only reason I main Bane over Flash is because my execution window is hella low.
After playing him, I wouldn't main Flash now but I wish more than anything that I could second him because he is by far my favorite DC character. Dat charisma doe.

I would gladly help ya in any way I can in playing Flash to your full potential and beyond man! But Bane needs you, Hump YEEEEEEEEEEEEEAH! Zyphox We know nothing of strength till we explore Bane, he is such an interesting character with all the tech they have discovered so far. I just had a thought if sonic pound was a true cross up midscreen. Whoa scary.

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

Flash is fine as this. he does not need anything, just level up, because he already has good buff.

 

[SAREDODEVIL]

Flash is fine as this. he does not need anything, just level up, because he already has good buff.