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General/Other Suggestions for fixes and changes in the New Patch.

Changes sound good?

  • Yeah

    Votes: 7 38.9%
  • No scrub, leave Flash nerfs out of here, he needs buffs.

    Votes: 13 72.2%
  • D

    Votes: 2 11.1%

  • Total voters
    18

Xenrail

Noob
disagree with most of the changes. i'll list why.

-Remove any chance of jailing standing opponents with Lighting Charge (BF2) MB and less push back off normal Charge.
+Enemy can already crouch bf2 mb and punish it with impunity. A lot of characters have normals that can full combo punish lightning charge. Seeing as flash has no pragmatic answer to ridiculous zoning, bf2 is one of his best chances on closing the distance. It can be treated like BA's divekick to punish it (jb1, jb2, jb3) on top of punishing on block.

-Less damage after combos from Lighting Charge MB.
+3 zoning specials with no meter and that's usually the equivalent of a bf2 mb combo. And most of the time when you're using bf2 mb it's to try to get in because of the average player brain dead spamming. These players deserved to be punished, while more adept players can react appropriately. Not to mention bf2 mb doesn't have armor, so a bf2 from batman can negate the lightning charge. Essentially any small mistake with the execution of lightning charge will result in negative ramifications -- similarly to zoning specials except lightning charge goes a little further than mid screen.

-Nerf Trait damage
+His trait has a cooldown of 20 seconds, which can be negated by any form of attack, pushblock, clash. It's also the only reason which makes choosing the flash attractive. In the average match, you can only activate 2 traits per round with the second trait in second round being negated by clash as opposed to comparable traits. Most of the time, the damage extension that flash gets with trait is only up to around 55%~ on average. Superman can do 54% in the corner easily 72% being optimal with his trait. Grundy can do 60% with his grab if you're buffed for damage, and batman doing 52% in the corner with his trait, etc. Many other classes have even more complex & reliable resets as well that can exceed 55%. Flash just has his corner setup with df3 mb and the 32 setup midscreen, which i don't find reliable at confirming most of the time.

-Nerf his Damage
+On top of the reasons above, why nerf his damage. His strings without meter are already ass bad and the only way to deal optimal damage is by utilizing meter. Other characters can utilize their trait multiple times in the course of a fight and deal comparable damage. His trait is also limited to launches, which is a special mb launch the majority of time in matches.

Everything else i don't feel the need to address since i don't think they're egregiously pertinent to the state of flash, but for the most part he feels balanced right now. To reinforce my statement, i will also like to state i'm not a one trick pony. I've played the majority of the characters in injustice extensively, which is why i'm confident in my postulation.
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
Alright so far everyone besides me seems to agree that Flash is fine so here's the list of changes:

He's fine no changes
Buff everyone's walk speed(Flash's back wards walk speed too).....okay that's just me
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
disagree with most of the changes. i'll list why.

-Remove any chance of jailing standing opponents with Lighting Charge (BF2) MB and less push back off normal Charge.
+Enemy can already crouch bf2 mb and punish it with impunity. A lot of characters have normals that can full combo punish lightning charge. Seeing as flash has no pragmatic answer to ridiculous zoning, bf2 is one of his best chances on closing the distance. It can be treated like BA's divekick to punish it (jb1, jb2, jb3) on top of punishing on block.

-Less damage after combos from Lighting Charge MB.
+3 zoning specials with no meter and that's usually the equivalent of a bf2 mb combo. And most of the time when you're using bf2 mb it's to try to get in because of the average player brain dead spamming. These players deserved to be punished, while more adept players can react appropriately. Not to mention bf2 mb doesn't have armor, so a bf2 from batman can negate the lightning charge. Essentially any small mistake with the execution of lightning charge will result in negative ramifications -- similarly to zoning specials except lightning charge goes a little further than mid screen.

-Nerf Trait damage
+His trait has a cooldown of 20 seconds, which can be negated by any form of attack, pushblock, clash. It's also the only reason which makes choosing the flash attractive. In the average match, you can only activate 2 traits per round with the second trait in second round being negated by clash as opposed to comparable traits. Most of the time, the damage extension that flash gets with trait is only up to around 55%~ on average. Superman can do 54% in the corner easily 72% being optimal with his trait. Grundy can do 60% with his grab if you're buffed for damage, and batman doing 52% in the corner with his trait, etc. Many other classes have even more complex & reliable resets as well that can exceed 55%. Flash just has his corner setup with df3 mb and the 32 setup midscreen, which i don't find reliable at confirming most of the time.

-Nerf his Damage
+On top of the reasons above, why nerf his damage. His strings without meter are already ass bad and the only way to deal optimal damage is by utilizing meter. Other characters can utilize their trait multiple times in the course of a fight and deal comparable damage. His trait is also limited to launches, which is a special mb launch the majority of time in matches.

Everything else i don't feel the need to address since i don't think they're egregiously pertinent to the state of flash, but for the most part he feels balanced right now. To reinforce my statement, i will also like to state i'm not a one trick pony. I've played the majority of the characters in injustice extensively, which is why i'm confident in my postulation.
Whoops didn't reply, thanks for this really detailed write up man! Nerfing his damage at any corner would hurt him and they would have to give us a large sum of buffs to compensate so we can enjoy knowing they won't do that. Charge was the only change I could understand the developers to take, but as time goes on there will be a detailed explanation to shutting down this move I just know it. And damage after charge would just add to the nerf. Overall there is just so much to discover that nerfing his charge wouldn't even affect him a month or two from now. I also try to use every member of the cast but so far I can reliable only use half off them.
 

Xenrail

Noob
Whoops didn't reply, thanks for this really detailed write up man! Nerfing his damage at any corner would hurt him and they would have to give us a large sum of buffs to compensate so we can enjoy knowing they won't do that. Charge was the only change I could understand the developers to take, but as time goes on there will be a detailed explanation to shutting down this move I just know it. And damage after charge would just add to the nerf. Overall there is just so much to discover that nerfing his charge wouldn't even affect him a month or two from now. I also try to use every member of the cast but so far I can reliable only use half off them.
you should learn all the characters in the game if you want to even remotely understand all facets of the flash and his potential advantages and weaknesses. i played several mirrors today vs other flashes and they did lightning charge wakeups every time. sometimes raw lightning charges other times meterburned. i'll tell you what i did to full combo punish them.

crouch block | b22 xx sp (mb) for raw lightning charges
crouch block | d12 xx sp/lk (mb) for meterburned lightning charges.

hit them every time. also for charge if you're using it as a setup for the +3 advantage, not only are you expending meter there, but you're also expending meter and possible trait for the follow up d12 xx sp/lk (mb). That's two meters for a confirm. if they block your d12 follow up because they recognize the setup, then you've lost that meter with no way to make up for it but a footsies game
 
I would like to, the trait lasted more time, and a cup of recovery much more rapid. that would make much more viable flash. I clarified that he is viable as is.
 

BoricuaHeat

PSN:KrocoCola
Updating front post with generally agreed changes.

Xenrail you on PSN? Would love to play some matches. I always try to make sure my friend thats learning flash get 58% for just throwing charge out there, makes em learn when to use it.

Only really wanted the changes so charge wouldn't affect other characters experiences against the match up because of one little tool, but I will take your word for it! You obviously have more knowledge of the game and its cast.
 

Solo_Is_The_Name

Flash In Training.
idk what opinion I should give on this topic. I don't want to say something that will be like "No that's dumb he will be to godlike and OP or NRS will probably do that, but too many people will cry about it".
 
So who can't punish regular LC? I hadn't played anyone that couldn't. MB for a chance at safety is fair compared to the rest of the cast that make their moves safe.
 

SEV

Noob
So who can't punish regular LC? I hadn't played anyone that couldn't. MB for a chance at safety is fair compared to the rest of the cast that make their moves safe.
I'm pretty sure it's just the large characters. Not exactly sure what the issue is though.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I'm pretty sure it's just the large characters. Not exactly sure what the issue is though.
Biggies can punish regular LC fine, but MB LC clips us on low block so we have to take that 50/50 even when we should be able to avoid it lol
 

SEV

Noob
Biggies can punish regular LC fine, but MB LC clips us on low block so we have to take that 50/50 even when we should be able to avoid it lol
Gotcha, that's what I figured. You on xbox? I'd like a good Bane to play to learn the MU.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Gotcha, that's what I figured. You on xbox? I'd like a good Bane to play to learn the MU.
I'm not a good Bane and its like a 8-2 in your favour, on top of me being like 4x worse on xbox because the default d-pad is ass...
But yeah, the tag is sabbical. I'm up to get bodied for free.
 

SaJa

FH_FenriR
Bane's worst MU is Flash, so let me be the first to say it.
BA has lightning, but we can at least fish him out of wake-up and he can't really pressure us outside of that lightning and dive kicks.
Flash can rush us down and we can't do anything about it, we can't pressure him on wake-up, and we can't duck MB lightning charge.

Its a 2-8 in Flash's favour, and the only reason BA is even considered a 2-8 is because we can never get in on him.

You forgot about Speed dodge which can whiff punish Bane's charges on reaction pretty easly :D

Anyway, the problem isn't flash, the problem is bane being too crap. Not our fault.
 

SEV

Noob
I'm not a good Bane and its like a 8-2 in your favour, on top of me being like 4x worse on xbox because the default d-pad is ass...
But yeah, the tag is sabbical. I'm up to get bodied for free.
Haha, I'll add you but it's alright if you aren't a Bane main, I'm down to play some time though. But 8-2 is what I hear, but I only play trash Banes with the exception of BiPolarExxpress and everytime I go against his Bane I get bodied because I don't know his stuff at high level play.
 

SaJa

FH_FenriR
Bane isn't crap, he is just painfully average in a game run by bullshit xD

Talking about bullshit, can Bane not punish Flash's charges with his Venom ?

The good part is that Flash needs to get in to fight Bane, no zoning issues here.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Talking about bullshit, can Bane not punish Flash's charges with his Venom ?

The good part is that Flash needs to get in to fight Bane, no zoning issues here.
As I said, we can punish normal charge just fine. MB charge breaks out 1 hit of armour, and we tend to phase through your uppercut for some reason more often than not lol...
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Haha, I'll add you but it's alright if you aren't a Bane main, I'm down to play some time though. But 8-2 is what I hear, but I only play trash Banes with the exception of BiPolarExxpress and everytime I go against his Bane I get bodied because I don't know his stuff at high level play.
I am a Bane main, but as far as the hierarchy of Banes go I'm mostly just the tech guy. I know more tech than anyone and it'd make your head spin to see some of it, but I'm so damn terrible at the game I never get to use any of it.
 

SaJa

FH_FenriR
As I said, we can punish normal charge just fine. MB charge breaks out 1 hit of armour, and we tend to phase through your uppercut for some reason more often than not lol...

Venom x2 x3 can eat 50 hits you'll still have your armor.
 

SEV

Noob
I am a Bane main, but as far as the hierarchy of Banes go I'm mostly just the tech guy. I know more tech than anyone and it'd make your head spin to see some of it, but I'm so damn terrible at the game I never get to use any of it.
I'm pretty sure I am the equivalent to the Flash community, or at least I too cannot perform any of the tech that I've found comfortably yet, kind of saddening. :(
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I'm pretty sure I am the equivalent to the Flash community, or at least I too cannot perform any of the tech that I've found comfortably yet, kind of saddening. :(
I invited you.
I would recommend joining my KotH since I'm bringing all the banes into it :p