"Believe in magic yet?" - Zatanna Match-Up Discussion thread

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I'm gonna say it's odd to see Bane there. Feels 5-5, but I've only played ONE Bane with her, so I'm making the judgement based mostly on the tools each of them have. Can you elaborate on that matchup?

Also, what do you consider a problematic matchup?

As a Lex main, I don't consider anything that is 4-6 to be problematic, they're just natural in any fighting game- not unless it is 3-7 do I feel the difficulty of the matchup to have a palpable influence on how many mistakes I can afford to make.

Well i think any problematic match up is any lossing one 4-6, a 7-3 is something almost impossible...
& I have played like 2 Banes... First he defeats every of our wak ups :c imcluding teleport... He has armor... He can neutral jump with body smash if we teleport & don't MB it... We can't zone him... Those are the points that i found more difficult

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

What did you think about Killer Frost and Catwoman from our set last night? I feel like Z really get's overwhelmed when rushed down. Also I think Zatanna's trait is useless against Frost.

Yes! I forgot them two... Frost really is a bad match up... We can't build much meter at full screen or zone her because of her iceberg... Frost punishes her not MB tele... So we must wait till have meter to teleport and that's not soemthing good because you can just block & one of oir bars is gone... Well.. I think this is a problematic match up...

Catwoman... I fought you & Akro yesterday... Pff... Aother bad match up... We can't zone Catwoman because of her miau, catwoman can punish our backwards teleport with MB Cat dash at full screen... Catwoman has a stronger 50/50 catwoman is the hell with meter... When she cas no meter we can use that to keep teleporting backwards & build some meter... She can punish teleport with standing 1 as well... In our pros is that we can ounish cat dash, 1,1,2 is our only fast string... Her overhead & low are pretty slow...

Both are bad match ups as well

 

[Tony at Home]

Well, I've been using her online in experimental ways. I've found I can very reliable about 50 % of the time get the match to timeout no matter which character i'm up against (I lose though, of course, but by timeout), by back tele, back tele, back tele, MB tele behind them when they get close, maybe hit a few times, then backwards tele again and again. Characters who can't deal with her projectiles I would back tele till I had enough meter, than stall with a slow fireball in front while I just farmed more meter.

She might have a very strong turtle game.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Well, I've been using her online in experimental ways. I've found I can very reliable about 50 % of the time get the match to timeout no matter which character i'm up against (I lose though, of course, but by timeout), by back tele, back tele, back tele, MB tele behind them when they get close, maybe hit a few times, then backwards tele again and again. Characters who can't deal with her projectiles I would back tele till I had enough meter, than stall with a slow fireball in front while I just farmed more meter.

She might have a very strong turtle game.

Lol exactly, pretty much this. But i still feel at disadvantage in those match ups i mentiones... I still gotta play other match ups yet... S far the only match up that i've played & i felt in advantage was Lobo. Harley & Joker feel even

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Wait. What high level execution are you guys talking about?
Is there something that hasn't been posted that I'm missing?

 

[Tony at Home]

^ oh crap, I just encouraged a Hawk Girl player that Zatanna is the best awesome at 'hit and RUN' tactics (emphasis on the "RUN" part of that).

Gonna be allota ticked off players online

And I actually played a Lobo too. Odd how I only see a Lobo in 1 out of 1000000 matches, but one popped up when I was using Zatanna.

I actually won that one even with my crappy tactic. That is a really, really, really bad matchup for Lobo. He can't do ANYTHING once that fireball is out, except take chip and let me get meter with trait. No joke, it might be the first 10-0 in this game....

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Wait. What high level execution are you guys talking about?
Is there something that hasn't been posted that I'm missing?

No, but her gameplay, all her moveset, her performance takes time to master. Or well... Will take time

 

[Tony at Home]

Wait. What high level execution are you guys talking about?
Is there something that hasn't been posted that I'm missing?

I think by "high execution" most people mean:
Playing this character for more than 5 matches in a row will give you a bad case of carpal tunnel....

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

^ oh crap, I just encouraged a Hawk Girl player that Zatanna is the best awesome at 'hit and RUN' tactics (emphasis on the "RUN" part of that).

Gonna be allota ticked off players online

And I actually played a Lobo too. Odd how I only see a Lobo in 1 out of 1000000 matches, but one popped up when I was using Zatanna.

I actually won that one even with my crappy tactic. That is a really, really, really bad matchup for Lobo. He can't do ANYTHING once that fireball is out, except take chip and let me get meter with trait. No joke, it might be the first 10-0 in this game....

Yes! Inthe Hawkgirl match up if we have the life leat running is godlike! But good luck if she has the life lead :/! Also ye slol also teleports are the hell for lobo, he can't even punish them imo

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

No, but her gameplay, all her moveset, her performance takes time to master. Or well... Will take time

Not really. Her combos and specials aren't hard to get down, and as for the performance, that isn't a part of execution, and depends on players affinity for that playstyle.

 

[Tony at Home]

Not really. Her combos and specials aren't hard to get down, and as for the performance, that isn't a part of execution, and depends on players affinity for that playstyle.

Wait.... what character has a more difficult time landing a ji2 after a MB kicks to b3? Can you give an example?

No one is saying she is super-horribly-difficult to learn. But compared to the rest of the cast, she is easily one of the most difficult to get her timing down.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Wait.... what character has a more difficult time landing a ji2 after a MB kicks to b3? Can you give an example?

No one is saying she is super-horribly-difficult to learn. But compared to the rest of the cast, she is easily one of the most difficult to get her timing down.

Not trying to sound like a dick, but I learnt that in 1 min, it isn't difficult at all.
Black adam bnbs, some hawkgirl combos, and bane's optimal damage combos are harder.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Not really. Her combos and specials aren't hard to get down, and as for the performance, that isn't a part of execution, and depends on players affinity for that playstyle.

Well... She has a lot of gimmicks! She is a hard level umm... Not execution... Performance character... She has no easy match ups atm... She takes risks sometimes... We must get used to that... She has a lot of variety of mixups with her tools... A lot of set ups

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Well... She has a lot of gimmicks! She is a hard level umm... Not execution... Performance character... She has no easy match ups atm... She takes risks sometimes... We must get used to that... She has a lot of variety of mixups with her tools... A lot of set ups

Oh, so you were tryin to saying she doesn't have easy match-ups. I can understand that

 

[Tony at Home]

I learnt that in 1 min, it isn't difficult at all.
Black adam bnbs, some hawkgirl combos, and bane's optimal damage combos are harder.

Ok, that's only three examples.

That still makes her one of the hardest, assuming she's not as difficult as any of those. (And that's a big assumption, given there is no way Bane's optimal damage combos are harder than Zatanna's)

You need to remember to scale how good you are with controls to reflect the actual character. If you are really good at controls, (and if you learned it in one minute, you are), what is easy for you is not going to be easy for the rest of the players.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Ok, that's only three examples.

That still makes her one of the hardest, assuming she's not as difficult as any of those. (And that's a big assumption, given there is no way Bane's optimal damage combos are harder than Zatanna's)

You need to remember to scale how good you are with controls to reflect the actual character. If you are really good at controls, (and if you learned it in one minute, you are), what is easy for you is not going to be easy for the rest of the players.

You asked for only one

I guess I should change what I'm trying to say, now that I get where you're coming from. Zatanna may be difficult for people that haven't played fighting games long enough (in the future you'll be able to do that in your sleep). Injustice is a low execution game in general, besides a few execptions like Black Adam's 1frame link combo. Compared to the current fighters out right now, Zatanna is a low execution character.

B23 B23 12 command is one of his optimal combos. It's harder that zatannas. You were probably thinking o another combo since barely any Banes use combos outside the standard.

 

[badb]

back tele, back tele, back tele, MB tele behind them when they get close, maybe hit a few times, then backwards tele again and again.

That is the only game plan I came up with too, it is safe to say Zattana isn't making it to top 8 of a major or most minors due to match ups. I don't think her tool kit was well thought out compared others...most of the cast have very strong stuff. She needs to meter burn everything to be average. Zattana is on the far left of the "has faults---well rounded" spectrum. She is fun though.

------------------

Execution would be instant air stance to air teleport, air stance is instant so rides on you to input it fast followed by the teleport into whatever, I can air stance teleport 5 times before dropping( she should be able to levitate permanently) - need to improve and getting MB 100% if you ever go offensive, and if she messes up or does it at the wrong time gets killed, also j2 air stance j2 stuff...like the infinite vs. bane which makes the bane matchup free if you can land 2 MB puppets, isn't easy and will be patched out. Zat is towards the bottom of the tier list so requires more execution to compete and also her stance requires reaction to everything so more execution.

Her teleports are tight controlled so takes more execution compared to other fighting games with lenient inputs.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Execution would be air stance to air teleport, air stance is instant so rides on you to input it fast followed by the teleport into whatever and MB if you ever go offensive, and if she messes up or does it at the wrong time gets killed, also j2 air stance j2 stuff...like the infinite vs. bane which makes the bane matchup free if you can land 2 MB puppets, isn't easy and will be patched out. Zat is towards the bottom of the tier list so requires more execution to compete and also her stance requires reaction to everything so more execution.

I'm assuming that you're replying to me. Please quote next time. I wouldn't have seen this if I wasn't still in here.
Air stance to air teleport isn't difficult, risk doesn't have anything to do with execution. Tier list placement and reactions to opponents moves have nothing to do with execution, and isn't it to early to be placing zatanna as low tier?
The j2 air stance j2 is difficult for injustice standars, but as for require alot of execution. Not really.

 

[badb]

I'm assuming that you're replying to me. Please quote next time. I wouldn't have seen this if I wasn't still in here.
Air stance to air teleport isn't difficult, risk doesn't have anything to do with execution. Tier list placement and reactions to opponents moves have nothing to do with execution, and isn't it to early to be placing zatanna as low tier?
The j2 air stance j2 is difficult for injustice standars, but as for require alot of execution. Not really.

I edited, but the inputs are tight....all other fighting games have lenient inputs so is safe to say she is the most execution character to play out of any recent fighting games, and isn't hard. Just harder than Cammy's old non EX TK DK, which was also tight because zattana has 4 variations. Edit: Maybe MvC3 jill valentine or Kabal cancels are harder but for this game.

No - she is ling or dhalsim w/o zoning tools.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

I edited, but the inputs are tight....all other fighting games have lenient inputs so is safe to say she is the most execution character to play out of any recent fighting games, and isn't hard. Just harder than Cammy's old non EX TK DK, which was also tight because zattana has 4 variations.

I'm assuming you made a typo, because you contradicted yourself.

No, they aren't I use the combo, and it isn't hard at all compared to stuff in other fighters. It's not even as difficult as bnbs for characters in other fighters.
You have no idea what you're talking about. What other fighters do you even play?

 

[badb]

I'm assuming you made a typo, because you contradicted yourself.

No, they aren't I use the combo, and it isn't hard at all compared to stuff in other fighters. It's not even as difficult as bnbs for characters in other fighters.
You have no idea what you're talking about. What other fighters do you even play?

Combos are timing, if you can hit combos 100% of the time should be able to beat everyone as 70% seems to be average in top 8 of any major so you would do more damage and get punished less. However, for inputs it is hard because of multiple versions and strict inputs like I said.

Say something easy like street fighter, C viper's FfF or Gens hands...they are 100% when you get them down compared to much lower for stuff that must be timed. Same principle applies to her TP.

Is harder than tekken, sf4, mvc3, doa - similar to ayane's shenanigans, BB, and MK9 stuff. IDK maybe you play virtual fighter or street fighter 1 - yeah those games are hard.

 

[PoweredbyProtein]

Combos are timing, if you can hit combos 100% of the time should be able to beat everyone as 70% seems to be average in top 8 of any major so you would do more damage and get punished less. However, for inputs it is hard because of multiple versions and strict inputs like I said.

Please stop talking. I'm trying not to be rude and your making it hard. Are you even reading what you're typing?

Say something easy like street fighter, C viper's FfF or Gens hands...they are 100% when you get them down compared to much lower for stuff that must be timed. Same principle applies to her TP.

I have no idea what you're trying to say

Is harder than tekken, sf4, mvc3, doa - similar to ayane's shenanigans, BB, and MK9 stuff. IDK maybe you play virtual fighter or street fighter 1 - yeah those games are hard.

You're telling me Zatanna is harder than Ewgf, 1 frame links, FRCs and GG bnbs in general, zero, jill etc. combos, arakune and carl stuff, certain BB combos, nomad dash canceling consistently and kof bnbs?
You are talking out of your ass. Don't reply, because I'm not going to bother to check. It's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about or you're trolling.

 

[JustPressingButtons]

^ oh crap, I just encouraged a Hawk Girl player that Zatanna is the best awesome at 'hit and RUN' tactics (emphasis on the "RUN" part of that).

Gonna be allota ticked off players online

And I actually played a Lobo too. Odd how I only see a Lobo in 1 out of 1000000 matches, but one popped up when I was using Zatanna.

I actually won that one even with my crappy tactic. That is a really, really, really bad matchup for Lobo. He can't do ANYTHING once that fireball is out, except take chip and let me get meter with trait. No joke, it might be the first 10-0 in this game....

Bait teleports and fish for low chains in your trait. MB Charge to close the distance.

No way it's 10-0.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

No... Wth Zatanna vs Lobo is not 10-0 o.o it is like 7-3 or 8-2

 

[JustPressingButtons]

When Lobo is in your face? GGs. We get oki dokey land, but I'm not sure on teleport on wake up. Looks easy to blow up.