Match-up Discussion Post-patch Match up List and Discussion

[JDM]

Lex gets bodied by lantern in my opinion. Lanterns fireballs are too good. Once full screen lex is seriously screwed.

I main both so I think I know the matchup pretty well.

 

[afrozilla86]

After playing emperor shaolin and a few other hi level ravens I am leaning toward even. Once the raven player sees all my resets and otgs, it tends to be about a 50/50 based on hard reads and wiff punishing. Since its online neither me or my opponent were doing d1 lift, which is an option that destroys her ground teleport as well as green lantern's b13 cancels except for 2 options. All in all both have tools for a fun even match IMO. Still need to battle blind man and a few more before I attempt to go in debt on how to approach the match

 

[sgZick]

After playing emperor shaolin and a few other hi level ravens I am leaning toward even. Once the raven player sees all my resets and otgs, it tends to be about a 50/50 based on hard reads and wiff punishing. Since its online neither me or my opponent were doing d1 lift, which is an option that destroys her ground teleport as well as green lantern's b13 cancels except for 2 options. All in all both have tools for a fun even match IMO. Still need to battle blind man and a few more before I attempt to go in debt on how to approach the match

I think that is 100% correct, but only for the part of the match where she is not in Demon Stance, once she pushes 4, GL is at a big disadvantage.

 

[afrozilla86]

Techniquely g.l can just stay still and crouch. If she pillar spams, you can hard read dash forward and continue crouch blocking to avoid extreme chip damage. From the matches I had, Your goal is to always punish her for going demon mode with mb oa rocket. If she is on the ground keep button close to square to d1 lift punish on reaction to on ground tele if she jumps in air keep hand close to triangle to d2 on reaction to teleport. Always block low on raven and react to overheads. But i want to complete analysis before creating the guide. Match depends on who can control dark raven. "I can't control it"
I will also mention the results will not be based on how well or not well I do against the person, but rather on how well each character deals with the other and what options are available to each other during the matches. Won't post count unless the raven player gives consent. On that note blind man is the last raven I got left Sick of almost 100 raven fights. Jk its a "fun" matchup.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

so ive been thinking about using lantern against the flash since i personally think thats an unwinnable matchup for deathstroke. can someone go into detail how that match is supposed to be played?

 

[G4S KT]

so ive been thinking about using lantern against the flash since i personally think thats an unwinnable matchup for deathstroke. can someone go into detail how that match is supposed to be played?

Zone him with air rockets. It's really all you need to win that match. Flash has no answer for it.

Add in space control of Chaingun and fear of getting caught by a standing rocket into a 42% combo really slows his game down to a crawl.

Even if he's closer to you, b1 murders him in footsies and all his jump ins lose to d2.


He can punish chaingun on block from too close so you need to end blockstrings with EX chaingun or just don't do anything. Headbutt will also punish lift and a whiffed standing rocket from too close so you have to be careful with those. but really you want to spend 70% of the time pelting him with air rockets and the rest of the time punishing his attempts to advance with combos into vortexes.

 

[Crimson Panther]

OP updated

Sent from my SCH-R830 using Tapatalk 2

 

[GGA Wafflez]

Zone him with air rockets. It's really all you need to win that match. Flash has no answer for it.

Add in space control of Chaingun and fear of getting caught by a standing rocket into a 42% combo really slows his game down to a crawl.

Even if he's closer to you, b1 murders him in footsies and all his jump ins lose to d2.


He can punish chaingun on block from too close so you need to end blockstrings with EX chaingun or just don't do anything. Headbutt will also punish lift and a whiffed standing rocket from too close so you have to be careful with those. but really you want to spend 70% of the time pelting him with air rockets and the rest of the time punishing his attempts to advance with combos into vortexes.

it seems flash can just use ex headbutt to get past GL's zoning. i played dizzy in a long set today, and after the first 5 games, i was zoning maybe 20% of the match. and when flash gets in (within range of his normals being able to hit, which isnt hard w/ ex headbutt), it comes down to a mean 50/50 game... of course when you guess right you are either neutral or at slight advantage (him being less than -6). another problem i was having was backdashing out of 22 or w/e his chop string is that leaves him at +3. you are able to back dash out of the low starter, but his overhead will catch you (lantern's backdash isnt strong enough to avoid the 50/50 all together). obviously i need to run this MU more often, and i still think it's in lantern's advantage, because he pretty much wins everywhere EXCEPT point blank, and in b1 range (which in this case, is any range in which flash has to just block or jump because he is out of range for his 50/50) he dominates.

so basically, if the flash player you are playing is getting zoned out, IMO he is playing it completely wrong. yes the ex headbutt is punishable, BUT no1 is ducking 3/4 screen away looking for that punish. also... his forward dash is ridiculous.

 

[afrozilla86]

A competent flash should not get zoned out cause of his insane dash and ability to phaze. and the mb version of that charge is plus on block, but you could just use your meter to push block and be at your footsie spacing baiting his downfall for advantage you.

 

[G4S KT]

so basically, if the flash player you are playing is getting zoned out, IMO he is playing it completely wrong

When I say zoning I mean all space control, not just 1/2 screen keep away and farther. Even though Flash can't do a god damn thing until you whiff a rocket from 1/2 screen away

Yea he's quick with dashes and headbutt goes far but if you're placing your air rockets just right they'll hit him in the feet if he walks back and if he tries to dash or headbutt he'll just run into it.

He'll eventually close the gap but he has to do it slowly otherwise he just runs into lantern's projectiles. And even then like you said he gets murdered in b1 range. Really his best normal is his overhead slap because it's much faster than the chops but neither of them compete with the range or speed of b1 which either forces him to jump at you to start offense or get blown up for trying to walk forward or dash into a distance where he can actually touch you.

If he does get in trying to back dash is just suicide. It's pretty much suicide all the time with lantern because it sucks so bad. I almost never even try. I would just push block (especially if it's the chop string) and just go back to zoning. You build tons of meter with air rockets

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I got to briefly play the flash matchup against DrFlash44 some, and it seemed to be GL favor. My main goal was to use air rocket to make him try and dash in at me, and once he started dashing, b1. Typical lantern stuff. However, he wasn't trying head butt, so I will have to let him and Ermacio know about that to see if they can get it work, and if I can stop it. I should be able to play it with them in the next few days.

 

[KingHippo]

I think the one other thing to remember against Flash is GL punishes the f21 very badly because he gets to duck the three fist flurry after the overhead and can do b1 xx ex rocket or something similar.

 

[Endeavor]

Afrozilla what otgs are you using online just out of curiosity.

 

[afrozilla86]

223 it disrupts raven even if not perfect timed after dash under

 

[G4S KT]

I think the one other thing to remember against Flash is GL punishes the f21 very badly because he gets to duck the three fist flurry after the overhead and can do b1 xx ex rocket or something similar.

f21 is his overhead string right?

 

[Endeavor]

223 it disrupts raven even if not perfect timed after dash under

So it disrupts her wake up too?

 

[plagueburial]

I played a Zod last night for a few hours. Still not quite sure what to do. Ground zoning left trading with his projectiles and air rockets get stuffed by his air grab. Once I got in it want too bad, but fighting through those slow/fast balls and not bring able to dash because of his grab is a pain in the ass. Any tips?

 

[LEGEND]

f21 is his overhead string right?

yes F2 is, but no good flash is going to be doing F2(1) so its a moot point

 

[afrozilla86]

So it disrupts her wake up too?

Yea if timed remotely right all wakeups except teleport in dark raven. There is crossover j3 d1 for her though

 

[Endeavor]

So after getting completely destroyed by @Emperor_Dark I would like to know simply this...what in gods name does GL do about Joker, once I got knocked down, I could not get up...it was freer than New-York city condoms....

 

[afrozilla86]

Back dash his teeth j3 reset if i remember right you may have to roll on that one. And you can control spacing with oa rocket and air oa. do not get in the corner. Online that means praying he mistimes for you to push block or not quite sure never happened to me. Emperor dark is good though no shame in that lol.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

afrozilla86 Ravens reflect makes those rockets useless in most situations in this match up. Cool you can dodge both versions of the mb reflect by jumping and firing and air one but when that one is reflected I believe its a 50/50 between either one or both are unavoidable, I'm not sure. This is similar to fighting kenshi online with Kitana, lui kang, etc. It changes the mu significantly because the option to reflect is almost not there. It is easier to do online in injustice than mk but I still get hit half the time and it causes me to get hit by things I'd block and punish like the turbine which gets punished by soul crush on block or air turbine which gets whiff punished by lift. When Raven is in demon stance the rockets can be used to mess her zoning up a bit as long as you make the correct read. If she does pillar you just trade damage and I'm not sure who wins that because I don't know the damage of GL's rocket. If you trade with soul crush you win because the first hit of soul crush is like 1%. If you trade with pull you eat a 38%-41%. Air rocket is suicide unless spaced right so it trades with pillar otherwise you eat a 39% combo. The minigun + trait gives you a little chip sure but also gives me a chance to get into trait and if I already am in trait you get pulled in and eat a 35%(?) combo. If you are within the ridiculous range of lanterns might you can easily punish blocked soul crushes. GL needs to get in on Raven and stay in and do whatever up close stuff you guys do. From a distance you get bum fucked. This match up is 6-4 Raven.

 

[afrozilla86]

While i respect your opinion you failed to mention the stages we went to, under tourney settings you wouldnt get 6 chances to pick your stage and not allow your opponent to choose 2 times. In that scenario if you double countered I would wait to see your mb and dash back and eat the terrible 8% for two bars. I expected you to counter both and wanted to bait you to waste meter for no combos. Pretty sure both of us are better offline so I will ignore that. In the end they were still good matches and are greatly appreciated. I still feel 5/5 but will agree to disagree. Also did you see me trait mini gun while you were in dark raven. not that stupid lol, though I did foolishly mis space 2 costly air oa rockets. And I only did ground turbine after conditioning you to counter everything its all about hard reads in the matchup

 

[Blind_Ducky]

While i respect your opinion you failed to mention the stages we went to, under tourney settings you wouldnt get 6 chances to pick your stage and not allow your opponent to choose 2 times. In that scenario if you double countered I would wait to see your mb and dash back and eat the terrible 8% for two bars. I expected you to counter both and wanted to bait you to waste meter for no combos. Pretty sure both of us are better offline so I will ignore that. In the end they were still good matches and are greatly appreciated. I still feel 5/5 but will agree to disagree. Also did you see me trait mini gun while you were in dark raven. not that stupid lol, though I did foolishly mis space 2 costly air oa rockets. And I only did ground turbine after conditioning you to counter everything its all about hard reads in the matchup

I'm not talking about stages. Ill type up stuff about stages in a minute. You never said anything to me about stage rules so I just went with whatever was there except when I picked hall of justice. I know you didn't trait minigun during that time. I'm just talking about what would happen in that situation.

 

[YOMI DJT]

Raven only beats GL from far. Up close Gl gets in that ass. Mid range I think gl is better imo.