Match-up Discussion Nightwing Matchup Discussion

[NightwingDayZero]

Walking is a thing get comfortable doing it. You will be amazed at how effective it is in some matchups. Raven especially. Killer Frost, Deathstroke, Black Adam, Cyborg, Superman also come to mind.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Getting in on Cyborg is a nightmare, mostly because no one plays him and his zoning is Marvel 3 level ridiculous

No, it's really not lol. He has to spend meter if he wants to cover more angles than just straight in front of him. That's less meter he has to pushblock you once you're in his face. Like, what is Cyborg going to do when you get in and turn on the staff pressure? Die, pretty much.

Sent from the Batcave

 

[KombatNerd]

Walking is a thing get comfortable doing it. You will be amazed at how effective it is in some matchups. Raven especially. Killer Frost, Deathstroke, Black Adam, Cyborg, Superman also come to mind.

Against KF, I use WingDings to check her slide..

 

[Evid3nts]

I been having problems as of late dealing with GL. The GL's in my local scene play so Damn lame and brain dead(ex. Back dash full screen, jump rocket, meter burn rocket) if they assume that I may jump I get hit with a lantern car. They know once I'm in it's ball game. How do my fellow nightwings deal with his BS fullscreen. Also is there any way to punish a max range lift in trait while in escrima. B2 tends to fall short. Most of the other natural zoners don't pose a problem because they tend to lack a very strong mid range game. GL on the other hand is the mid range king and can zone. Lets not forget that brokenASS reset/vortex if done correctly. Thoughts on destroying the Lantern Corps?

 

[NightwingDayZero]

I been having problems as of late dealing with GL. The GL's in my local scene play so Damn lame and brain dead(ex. Back dash full screen, jump rocket, meter burn rocket) if they assume that I may jump I get hit with a lantern car. They know once I'm in it's ball game. How do my fellow nightwings deal with his BS fullscreen. Also is there any way to punish a max range lift in trait while in escrima. B2 tends to fall short. Most of the other natural zoners don't pose a problem because they tend to lack a very strong mid range game. GL on the other hand is the mid range king and can zone. Lets not forget that brokenASS reset/vortex if done correctly. Thoughts on destroying the Lantern Corps?

I've played this matchup every other day for at least 3 hours a day for the last 4 months against a Green Lantern second only in tournament standings to DJT. Take it from me, when GL knows the matchup, it's 7-3.

I've seen every argument that the Nightwing community can throw at this claim. Every button Nightwing has is beaten by GL's b1. I have witnessed my d2 clip through GL's b1 hitbox AND what I THOUGHT was his hurtbox. It's non-existant.

"You can backdash his only pressure starting string!" - yeah. Until he makes the read on your backdash with b1 rocket or b1 trait lift or b1 jump back oa's rocket.

Nightwing can play projectile footsies! Except GL can make the read on wingdings and punish with turbine or MB Oa's Rocket. Air Oa's rocket shuts down any ground sparking.

Nightwing has only one wakeup to get him out of GL's reset and it's in staff - any smart GL player is not letting you anywhere near him in staff stance.

If you respect his Lantern's Might wakeup - you're eating B13 pressure. Nothing Nightwing has can beat B1, so why would GL risk Lantern's Might anyways?

How do you beat GL? I'm hoping someone comes up with something incredible because at the present moment with my current understanding of the matchup, Nightwing loses outright.

Nightwing isn't likely to be receiving any buffs. Green Lantern isn't likely to be receiving any nerfs. I'm giving it until the next big patch before I make my decision, but it's considered tournament suicide to be playing a 7-3 without a counter. As much as I would love to be a character loyalist, I'm thinking Batgirl is going to be my pocket character specific only to that matchup.

 

[LEGEND]

I've played this matchup every other day for at least 3 hours a day for the last 4 months against a Green Lantern second only in tournament standings to DJT. Take it from me, when GL knows the matchup, it's 7-3.

I've seen every argument that the Nightwing community can throw at this claim. Every button Nightwing has is beaten by GL's b1. I have witnessed my d2 clip through GL's b1 hitbox AND what I THOUGHT was his hurtbox. It's non-existant.

"You can backdash his only pressure starting string!" - yeah. Until he makes the read on your backdash with b1 rocket or b1 trait lift or b1 jump back oa's rocket.

Nightwing can play projectile footsies! Except GL can make the read on wingdings and punish with turbine or MB Oa's Rocket. Air Oa's rocket shuts down any ground sparking.

Nightwing has only one wakeup to get him out of GL's reset and it's in staff - any smart GL player is not letting you anywhere near him in staff stance.

If you respect his Lantern's Might wakeup - you're eating B13 pressure. Nothing Nightwing has can beat B1, so why would GL risk Lantern's Might anyways?

How do you beat GL? I'm hoping someone comes up with something incredible because at the present moment with my current understanding of the matchup, Nightwing loses outright.

Nightwing isn't likely to be receiving any buffs. Green Lantern isn't likely to be receiving any nerfs. I'm giving it until the next big patch before I make my decision, but it's considered tournament suicide to be playing a 7-3 without a counter. As much as I would love to be a character loyalist, I'm thinking Batgirl is going to be my pocket character specific only to that matchup.

Three things every player needs to know about the GL MU

1. you can backdash out of B1(here)2 and B1(here)3 (in NW's case i assume this isn't possible in Staff)

2. B1 by itself is punishable on block (-12 iirc) and the only non-interruptable followups to B1 are punishable on block. You HAVE to set up this meta game

3. his 50/5o is blockable on reaction, once you know how to recognize the F3's start up all you need to do is hold down then switch to holding back once you see it. So you really shouldn't be taking risks trying to escape the resets
-
Also as a bit of a side note, You can MB B3 cancel through some air rockets or just straight MB B3 through others that are done closer to the ground. Not the best or most reliable tactic but it is something, specially if it grants you the life lead

 

[SilverKeyMan]

Do you guys feel the Superman-Nightwing match is 7-3 or 6-4 in favor of Supes?

I give it a 7-3. On the rare occasion that I beat a Superman, it's clear that it's because I was MUCH better than him.

 

[Evid3nts]

I've played this matchup every other day for at least 3 hours a day for the last 4 months against a Green Lantern second only in tournament standings to DJT. Take it from me, when GL knows the matchup, it's 7-3.

I've seen every argument that the Nightwing community can throw at this claim. Every button Nightwing has is beaten by GL's b1. I have witnessed my d2 clip through GL's b1 hitbox AND what I THOUGHT was his hurtbox. It's non-existant.

"You can backdash his only pressure starting string!" - yeah. Until he makes the read on your backdash with b1 rocket or b1 trait lift or b1 jump back oa's rocket.

Nightwing can play projectile footsies! Except GL can make the read on wingdings and punish with turbine or MB Oa's Rocket. Air Oa's rocket shuts down any ground sparking.

Nightwing has only one wakeup to get him out of GL's reset and it's in staff - any smart GL player is not letting you anywhere near him in staff stance.

If you respect his Lantern's Might wakeup - you're eating B13 pressure. Nothing Nightwing has can beat B1, so why would GL risk Lantern's Might anyways?

How do you beat GL? I'm hoping someone comes up with something incredible because at the present moment with my current understanding of the matchup, Nightwing loses outright.

Nightwing isn't likely to be receiving any buffs. Green Lantern isn't likely to be receiving any nerfs. I'm giving it until the next big patch before I make my decision, but it's considered tournament suicide to be playing a 7-3 without a counter. As much as I would love to be a character loyalist, I'm thinking Batgirl is going to be my pocket character specific only to that matchup.

These are the same problems I deal with every week. I too want to only main NW but this match up is just not in NW favor. I know about dashing out b1 but it's a risk every time you do it. There have been times when I back dash and get clipped by the overhead. I'm aware that there is a gap in between b12(I think that's the overhead notation) where you can 113 into bnb but is it worth it? B3mb rocket sounds good on paper but I haven't been able to due much following the dash due to it's recovery. By the time your dash animation ends GL has already recovered. Or out of b2 range.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

These are the same problems I deal with every week. I too want to only main NW but this match up is just not in NW favor. I know about dashing out b1 but it's a risk every time you do it. There have been times when I back dash and get clipped by the overhead. I'm aware that there is a gap in between b12(I think that's the overhead notation) where you can 113 into bnb but is it worth it? B3mb rocket sounds good on paper but I haven't been able to due much following the dash due to it's recovery. By the time your dash animation ends GL has already recovered. Or out of b2 range.

Straight from the GL forums.

Night wing should not be getting anywhere near you. He has no answer for well placed air rockets in either stance but especially staff.

This forces him to either attempt to out-lame you in escrima (which is difficult) or to try and get a knockdown with wingdings or EX wingdings and charge in.

If he does get to you, push block immediately which will put you back to the perfect range to control him with air rockets. Always save a bar for this reason.


It's easily in lanterns favor, all of NWs best tools are negated by air rocket

Should any Nightwing player find the tech to completely change this matchup - I'll buy you a pitcher of whatever beer you like at EVO next year.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

I give it a 7-3. On the rare occasion that I beat a Superman, it's clear that it's because I was MUCH better than him.

I was playing with my GF's bro online, we did a ranked match and we saw a dude who had 1100 wins and 200 losses. So her bro gave me the sticks because he didn't want to play him.

He picked Superman, I picked Nightwing.

For some reason, I always prepare to block F23 so I won't get punished right away. I thought he was going to be a good Superman player.

Instead, he went full screen to the left, Laser spamming madness. When I got close, he did a good job in surprising with that BF3 move Superman does with the MB that sends you back full screen for Supes convinience.

Well, I got raped the first round, but the 2nd round I finally got him the corner and man it was a beat down.

Cross over J3's, MB Flip kicks, throws before he could do a wake up. I took his whole first bar without him touching me.

But then I drop the combo that would of ended the fight. He went back full screen and began chipping my life away with the laser spam. So I lost.

I wasn't mad at him. You gotta do what you gotta do to win. It's always a struggle for NW against Superman and this time I didn't use staff because mobility is limited and he was very dedicated to spamming the lasers...I didn't play so great either.

The struggle continues, but we love it because it can only make us better players.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

Straight from the GL forums.



Should any Nightwing player find the tech to completely change this matchup - I'll buy you a pitcher of whatever beer you like at EVO next year.

This is what I try to do. It's not really ground breaking tech, just strategy.

I practice fuzzy blocking against GL's B12 and his other B1. The main focus is that I don't want to freeze and stand still for GL to work his gayness. If I am successful at avoiding his combo, I quickly punish with a B2 combo starter and throw a wing ding out of his Lantern's Might hit box(which is huge so it takes smart spacing because GL players are desperate to land that LM).

From there I go full screen and increase my meter ball with ground spark. He can do air rockets all day and those will get block. If he gets closer, he's so open for a Flying Grayson. If he doesn't use air rockets and does an air dash with his turbine move, B2 immediately before he drops down on the floor and chain a combo of your choice from there.

Your goal is to stay back, fuzzy block his B1 string and just punish him. It'll get to the point he'll lose his patience and he'll make mistakes of his own because he'll be close to losing. You may get hit with Lantern's Might or B1 once or twice, but don't let it happen 5-6 times...obviously the game would be over, but that combo string is avoidable with strong defense and spacing. Lantern has to take risk to punish you, and with those risk he takes his own punishment in return.

Sorry if this isn't detail enough, I'm not a tournament player....I just play a lot of NW online and GL happens to be a match I get more than Superman or Batman. I'd say for Lantern matchup, I'd normally win 6 out of 10. I normally play solid level Lantern players. Then again, there are Lantern players who don't rely on the B1 and Lantern's might for victories so those are harder to match up since their style is more dynamic than a regular Lantern player.

IMO, it's a 5-5 matchup. I can see why people say it's 4-6 or 3-7 in favor of Lantern...it's totally understandable. This is a match up you just really need a lot of confidence in.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Should any Nightwing player find the tech to completely change this matchup - I'll buy you a pitcher of whatever beer you like at EVO next year.

If I get top 8 at Summer Jam do I still get the beer?

 

[Evid3nts]

This is what I try to do. It's not really ground breaking tech, just strategy.

I practice fuzzy blocking against GL's B12 and his other B1. The main focus is that I don't want to freeze and stand still for GL to work his gayness. If I am successful at avoiding his combo, I quickly punish with a B2 combo starter and throw a wing ding out of his Lantern's Might hit box(which is huge so it takes smart spacing because GL players are desperate to land that LM).

From there I go full screen and increase my meter ball with ground spark. He can do air rockets all day and those will get block. If he gets closer, he's so open for a Flying Grayson. If he doesn't use air rockets and does an air dash with his turbine move, B2 immediately before he drops down on the floor and chain a combo of your choice from there.

Your goal is to stay back, fuzzy block his B1 string and just punish him. It'll get to the point he'll lose his patience and he'll make mistakes of his own because he'll be close to losing. You may get hit with Lantern's Might or B1 once or twice, but don't let it happen 5-6 times...obviously the game would be over, but that combo string is avoidable with strong defense and spacing. Lantern has to take risk to punish you, and with those risk he takes his own punishment in return.

Sorry if this isn't detail enough, I'm not a tournament player....I just play a lot of NW online and GL happens to be a match I get more than Superman or Batman. I'd say for Lantern matchup, I'd normally win 6 out of 10. I normally play solid level Lantern players. Then again, there are Lantern players who don't rely on the B1 and Lantern's might for victories so those are harder to match up since their style is more dynamic than a regular Lantern player.

IMO, it's a 5-5 matchup. I can see why people say it's 4-6 or 3-7 in favor of Lantern...it's totally understandable. This is a match up you just really need a lot of confidence in.

I normally don't tun into trouble online when I play GL it's the ones I play offline that actually play the match up correctly and spam those dumb ass rockets. Thank you for your input though. It pointed out some tactics to take in consideration. I still think offline where there is little to no input lag it's 7-3 maybe 6-4

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I don't see GL as a 5-5, its 7-3 maaaybe 6-4. I run sets w gdlk rebelo all the time and GLs footsie range is just too strong for NW. In escrima I get b1 before I get in. Just shuts down all of escrimas good footsie tools. Lanterns might on jump ins. If I switch to staff I get zoned out w air rockets, turbine beats flying grayson damn near 100% of the time. Lanterns might will catch flip kick mix ups, if u reverse inputs for GL on wake up, he will get gatling gun and still beat flip kick. NW has no answers for Hal, sad to say. I love NW but against supes and GL I have to play MMH. theres nothing to do.

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

I don't see GL as a 5-5, its 7-3 maaaybe 6-4. I run sets w gdlk rebelo all the time and GLs footsie range is just too strong for NW. In escrima I get b1 before I get in. Just shuts down all of escrimas good footsie tools. Lanterns might on jump ins. If I switch to staff I get zoned out w air rockets, turbine beats flying grayson damn near 100% of the time. Lanterns might will catch flip kick mix ups, if u reverse inputs for GL on wake up, he will get gatling gun and still beat flip kick. NW has no answers for Hal, sad to say. I love NW but against supes and GL I have to play MMH. theres nothing to do.

It takes a lot of reading and patience into the match up with GL.
If you're going to Flying Grayson when he does Turbine, then you can't win that of course...but you can read combine first and do a 1F1 Flying Grayson string in response to that.

Theres an answer for everything I believe, the game is young and I'm sure people will discover new things within this match up.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

It takes a lot of reading and patience into the match up with GL.
If you're going to Flying Grayson when he does Turbine, then you can't win that of course...but you can read combine first and do a 1F1 Flying Grayson string in response to that.

Theres an answer for everything I believe, the game is young and I'm sure people will discover new things within this match up.

I don't flying grayson his turbine, sometimes I go to stuff an air rocket and he turbines instead. I understand what you're saying, just IMO the MU is not in NWs favor at all.

 

[Sajam]

Snip

The problem is that no good GL player is going to do half of what you mentioned here. He has no reason to take risks, no reason to do b13 when you are out of range, and no reason to try and rush you down. GL just needs solid spacing, and an understanding of how terrible NW's footsie tools are, and this matchup is very simple for him to win.

Online GL's don't stack up to high level players using the character in an offline environment.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

If you're talking about punishing B13 without making the guess on 1. rockets 2. minigun 3. lift - you're playing bad Green Lanterns.

In every situation. In every place on screen. Nightwing has to be making the right reads.

 

[G4S KT]

I've played this matchup every other day for at least 3 hours a day for the last 4 months against a Green Lantern second only in tournament standings to DJT.

Who is second behind DJT that's not me Arturo or Chef?

I have 3rd at 2 Northeast tournaments losing only to Brady & REO and KDZ & REO respectively and top 16 at ECT

AFAIK the only other 2 who have tourney records against top competition are Chef or Arturo

Or are you playing chef lol

EDIT: I agree nightwing gets bodied by lantern

 

[Sajam]

Who is second behind DJT that's not me Arturo or Chef?

I have 3rd at 2 Northeast tournaments losing only to Brady & REO and KDZ & REO respectively and top 16 at ECT

AFAIK the only other 2 who have tourney records against top competition are Chef or Arturo

Or are you playing chef lol

He's talking about Michaelangelo, I think.

I've played Chef a bunch, and can't stand the GL matchup. If the spacing on his rockets is on point, NW doesn't have that many options.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Who is second behind DJT that's not me Arturo or Chef?

I have 3rd at 2 Northeast tournaments losing only to Brady & REO and KDZ & REO respectively and top 16 at ECT

AFAIK the only other 2 who have tourney records against top competition are Chef or Arturo

Or are you playing chef lol

KT Smith

Michaelangelo.

By "2nd only in tournament standings" I was referring to EVO. Excuse my ignorance outside of that.

 

[Dasblackman]

I might have accidentally found some new tech that might help with some matchups. If you Flying Grayson at the right time when a character MB B3, you don't get hit and they eat the damage. The hit causes the b3 to whiff I guess, kind of like Grundy's armored grab. Works on Batman and Superman (haven't tested many others) but the timing is different. This puts you behind them and allows you to either flying grayson back in, or ground pound to apply pressure. Can get you out of situations and allows you to punish. Hope this might help some guys

 

[Dasblackman]

Also, no matter what I do I still get bodied by hawkgirl. Crazy fast attacks with no opening to attack

 

[David Sawyer]

Thanks for all the tips against grundy! I'm starting to do better in that match up. But what should I do at the very start. Do I attack with something like 112, immediately dash back or try and hit him off interactable ( if he goes for it)

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Call me crazy but I really don't think GL is 7-3. 6-4 at worst. Like Staff just shits on him imo. Sure, the GL can play really, really safe and come out on top, but that's just how the matchup works, that's how the character is designed. It's one of those matchups you have to play over and over to work on and get comfortable in, like Superman. GL has really good ways to keep you off him while you have great ways of staying in (notice I did not say getting in, that can be a chore). But, the dude has no real mixup until he actually hits you with the 50/50 reset between b1 or f3 off a confirm. Like so many of NW's matchups against spacing/zoning/keepaway characters, it's one of those "get into Escrima until you're in, push your advantage with Staff" situations. You will have to take risks and make reads, but hey, welcome to fighting games.

Idk why everyone's set on backdashing b1 either. He doesn't get great advantage on it unless he does MB bf1. At least according to the frame data that's the case. Even MB gatling is apparently -2 on block.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not picking up other characters to "solve" bad matchups. The only thing that truly solves them is you becoming better as a player. Different characters may cushion learning the matchup, but they by no means solve them.