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Suggestions before balance patch as of 07/30

M-Aran-X

Mortal
I'm explaining what a mix up is. Because apparently blocking low completely destroys Superman and his family.
blocking low makes you able to react every overhead he has because they are so slow that you can see them coming, even the air dash cross up. Oh an jd3 can only be done after a b3 d2 so if you don't see that coming you deserve to be punished.
 

Lex Luthor II

Lord of Lightning
Is there any word as to Wonder Woman changes in this next patch?

Someone said her otg divepunch is going byebye. Anyone know?
 

M-Aran-X

Mortal
Sorry but they won't nerf f23 string. If GL can have a 9 frame low with way more reach than f2 then forget it(and pls don't dare to say that you can jump b1 on reaction because that's impossible). Your best bet is breath nerf, but f23? no way, take that away and supes become useless. He has no 50/50 mixup, his only fast string aside f2 is 1 with 8 frames but is HIGH not mid, so again blocking low and you will destroy his whole game. The cheap damage zoning nerf is acceptable so is the breath but f2? come on, batman has a 6 frame string. Also, if people cannot see how blocking low cuts away most of supes game then they don't know the matchup. Every overhead is reactable and his jd3 flying ground smash is predictable. Of course with no 50%/50% mixup the only way he can gets in is with wiff punish and after breath gets nerfed it will be his only way because the loop will be long gone.

List of every supes overhead and how reactable they are:
Air dash cross up: I mean really? who can't see this coming? he lacks a proper cross-up like batman or nightwing.
f3: regular slow overhead
223: regular slow overhead that even my granny can block, so no 50/50 with scoop
112: can't combo and is slow too
f2d13: if 2 gets blocked 3 won't come out so that makes it an useless overhead. What where they thinking?
jd3 flying ground smash: if you are a scrub you won't know that the only way to do that mixup is after a b3 d2. the other way is with f2d13 and thats way to easy to miss. You see one of this two things and you know is coming.
1 frame super: This overhead only works as wiff punish. is 34% and if you wiffed you deserved this. Only valid complain is that supes builds too much meter with zap but that will get nerfed so stop criying.
Air heat vision, heat vision: if he shoots this you know you have to block mid. If you don't do it you deserve the hit.

List of valid complains:
breath pushing too much on block
building meter too fast with zoning
some Corner combos are way too high, don't dare to say his trait midscreen are high because that's not true.
trait negates other traits(fix this only for trait armors but screw you if you wan't to take the ability to break regular armor)

How I would fix supes:
making 2 an 8 frame move
making 223 and 22 scoop a true 50/50 mixup with scoop and 3 having the same frame-startup.
reducing breath push back on block and retain the 0 frame properties so that way d1 can reach it.
reducing Heat Zap and Heat Vision chip damage on block and reducing damage with trait.
reducing meter build with zoning.
making f2 into a 10 frame string.
making f2d13 work even if the opponent blocks it, but with less recovery time if it gets blocked.
making Trait negate every armor aside the Trait armors (example, if doomsday use his trait supes can't negate it).

This are my suggestions.

Also, I will fix the frame and damage data on the command list menu and add a freaking dash cancel. Also I will fix de damage scaling of every character because some moves deals nothing and other deals too much.
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
really? I mean really? complaining about 223 and air dash mix up? one of the most predictable things ever? I really think you are starting to show the few knowledge about fighting games
Are your reading comprehension skills that shitty? Did you even watch the video I posted? Where in the world am I complaining about 223? Are you really that stupid? These 2013 posters maaang, we get it, you play superman and you feel threatened, you feel he's not op because you get destroyed, since you play it at a very low level, we get it, please stop. Almost every post you have in other threads is you saying "superman shouldn't get nerfed" and "I mean... really?".
 

M-Aran-X

Mortal
Are your reading comprehension skills that shitty? Did you even watch the video I posted? Where in the world am I complaining about 223? Are you really that stupid? These 2013 posters maaang, we get it, you play superman and you feel threatened, you feel he's not op because you get destroyed, since you play it at a very low level, we get it, please stop. Almost every post you have in other threads is you saying "superman shouldn't get nerfed" and "I mean... really?".
Actually if you did your research you would have realized that I was one of the only superman mainers complaining about his loop and his zoning. I want that thing to get away so bad that it's not even funny, but no, you have to keep bitching. Also, I hate f23 and zoning and try to use everything I can aside from that. Also why I'm gonna bother watching a video who doesn't prove any of your points? I posted a whole list of his overheads, what arguments did you give aside bitching? also Lol at you for believing 223/scoop is a mixup when his overhead is clearly reactionable by blocking low all the time.
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
Actually if you did your research dumbass you would have realized that I was one of the only superman mainers complaining about his loop and his zoning. I want that thing to get away so bad that it's not even funny, but no, you have to keep bitching. Also, I hate f23 and zoning and try to use everything I can aside from that.

 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
and there we have and idiot with no arguments aside some stupid gifs. Pls try harder.
FT10 me.
I want to see if you're even the bare minimum good enough to be making claims here.

Also, the facepalm was because you try so hard to convince everyone how superman loses to crouching, and how his strings are so bad, and then you say "I was complaining about that!".

Typical keyboard warrior.
 

M-Aran-X

Mortal
FT10 me.
I want to see if you're good enough to be making claims here.

Also, the facepalm was because you try so hard to convince everyone how superman loses to crouching, and how his strings are so bad, and then you say "I was complaining about that!".

Typical keyboard warrior.
nope, I said that by blocking low you can easily react to every overhead or mixup he has. The only thing he has over you is his f23 breath loop, but that will be gone soon so who cares? Also I understand your hate for the character I mean almost everything you hate aside the super I hate it too. About the strings, aside from f23 what good string he has? as I said every other string is 10 or more frames and his other 8 frame is 111 and thats high hit so as I said just block low and it can't hit you. Imagine this: Superman with less meter build less chip damage with heat zap/vision and breath -3 less pushback. Would still be a problem for you?
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
nope, I said that by blocking low you can easily react to every overhead or mixup he has. The only thing he has over you is his f23 breath loop, but that will be gone soon so who cares? Also I understand your hate for the character I mean almost everything you hate aside the super I hate it too. About the strings, aside from f23 what good string he has? as I said every other string is 10 or more frames and his other 8 frame is 111 and thats high so as I said just block low and it can't hit you. Imagine this: Superman with less meter build less chip damage with heat zap/vision and breath -3 less pushback. Would still be a problem for you?
The loop is a non-issue.
8f safe advancing launcher that punishes shit the rest of the cast can't is.

FT10 me.
 

Cossner

King of the Jobbers 2015
what about b1 low from green lantern? is 9 frames and nobody is bitching about that.
B12 / 3 is one of the best strings in the game. It makes GL a great ass character, and EVERYONE agrees with that. But on block, GL doesn't have as many options as Superman.

This is the third time I write it, and you're just avoiding it, which is very telling.
FT10 me.
 

masuhdunkillyall

Aht Aht Aht!
thats character complaining no string complaining. If people are gonna bitch about a string you have to consider every single string.
Along that logic, if your going to consider a string, you must consider every string the character has, along with the specials the character has that they can use to cancel out of those strings, along with the specials the character has to get him in position to use those strings, along with all the characters tools etc etc... one string was never the entirety of the problem. The point is Superman either dominates or goes even (at worst) everywhere. He needs to be slightly weaker somewhere...maybe not f23, but somewhere. I like your ideas for "normalizing" him, but I would also prefer his projectile game to be a bit weaker as well in order to create smart zoning plays from Superman players.
 

M-Aran-X

Mortal
Along that logic, if your going to consider a string, you must consider every string the character has, along with the specials the character has that they can use to cancel out of those strings, along with the specials the character has to get him in position to use those strings, along with all the characters tools etc etc... one string was never the entirety of the problem. The point is Superman either dominates or goes even (at worst) everywhere. He needs to be slightly weaker somewhere...maybe not f23, but somewhere. I like your ideas for "normalizing" him, but I would also prefer his projectile game to be a bit weaker as well in order to create smart zoning plays from Superman players.
pls see my huge post up. I stated that the chip damage on blocking with zoning, the fast meter build with zoning and the high damage trait zoning need to be gone forever.
 

masuhdunkillyall

Aht Aht Aht!
pls see my huge post up. I stated that the chip damage on blocking with zoning, the fast meter build with zoning and the high damage trait zoning need to be gone forever.
I know, at the end of my post I agreed with you. I just want it to go one further. For example, slightly longer startup on lazers, a bit more recovery as well, frame data changes here or there to make his projectile game not so brain dead good against much of the cast.
 

Solid

The Longbow Hunter.
ji2, f23xtrait, f2xMB breath, b3, ji3, 22xlow scoop, 3xflying punch or breath. It deals 47% dmg i think, not 50% (my bad). My point is, that it deals above good damage and has an excellent wall carry which leads the opponent in the corner and after that he must guess and block right the OTG. If he guesses wrong, round is over. And all that starts from F2.
There is no guess. You guys are misinformed. If he dashes once it is a fake cross up and if he dashes twice it is a real cross up. If he mistimes it the OTG, which isn't a Marvel OTG and is very easy to mistime, it will whiff. Block it and punish. Just look at how many dashes Superman does. There is no guessing involved. Many characters can do the same with a jumping cross up. Superman can't do a jumping cross up without air dashing which you can react to. That is why the dive punch is used instead of the air dash.

Edit: The fake/real cross up set up with 1/2 dashes is after a F2D13 knockdown. After the B3, D2 knockdown just hold back to block. There is no cross up there.
 

@MylesWright_

I'll be back 3ing
Superman's breath is 0 on block and people are still being put in loops. L ow l
I don't think they can make Killer Frost any worse, ow yeah make slide -15 because people complain about having to block low and then think that because they blocked low they are entitled to a full combo punish for that hard read
 

Kiko

Face it, you're done.
what about b1 low from green lantern? is 9 frames and nobody is bitching about that.

Your posts are annoying .. Why aren't you getting what everyone is saying?


Besides if you're defending one string, you need to consider all strings, not only that but there are characters that have what you're saying "superman" (slow strings, bad mixups) and they do just fine. They don't even have other epic options that superman has.

Think about the fact that when you play someone like flash, raven, or Wonder Woman; your gameplan is for the most part the same against certain characters but with Supes you can literally do whatever you want because he has soooo many options that I'm almost sure you have no idea to fully capitalize on him.