Match-up Discussion Hawkgirl Matchup Discussion

[TrulyAmiracle]

Whats your opinion on the lex matchup? I played 10 games today and lost 9 of them. I have 0 experience against Lex and just couldn't figure out a way to win.

Lex can go very badly if you give him the room to start his bs. He has multiple ways to check her flight (mainly the probe and hidden missiles) and his trait can give her hawkgirl alot of trouble as most of her moves are 1 hitters.
Corp charge is very annoying and you need to punish that shit hard for Lex to stop doing that garbage, always be aware of it as its really quick and covers alot of range vertically and horizontally. He can also do it in the air which can knock HG from flight easy as instant air corp charge will hit you even if you're at max height.
His j3 is also really stupid and has insane range which makes anti-airing it really hard. His upclose shenanigans are not that good from what I've experienced unless he has trait up. He has some wonky looking overheads and a quick low, so block low then high block when you see his overheads.

Basically try to be on his ass and pressure him while being careful of the corp charge, dont fly too much in this MU as upclose he has j3, air corp charge and a couple of high reaching normals to knock you out of it, fullscreen he also has the tracking laser/missiles and the probes.
Try to stay on his grill as much as you can coz thats where she's better than him (upclose), give him space and/or time and he'll start doing shit with his trait on and probes/mines behind him and it'll get stupid really quick.

It takes a bit to learn the MU but its managable imo, 5.5-4.5 lex favor. You can also bust out a pocket DS/Cyborg if needed and the lex wont even get to move

 

[TurboTaco]

Lex can go very badly if you give him the room to start his bs. He has multiple ways to check her flight (mainly the probe and hidden missiles) and his trait can give her hawkgirl alot of trouble as most of her moves are 1 hitters.
Corp charge is very annoying and you need to punish that shit hard for Lex to stop doing that garbage, always be aware of it as its really quick and covers alot of range vertically and horizontally. He can also do it in the air which can knock HG from flight easy as instant air corp charge will hit you even if you're at max height.
His j3 is also really stupid and has insane range which makes anti-airing it really hard. His upclose shenanigans are not that good from what I've experienced unless he has trait up. He has some wonky looking overheads and a quick low, so block low then high block when you see his overheads.

Basically try to be on his ass and pressure him while being careful of the corp charge, dont fly too much in this MU as upclose he has j3, air corp charge and a couple of high reaching normals to knock you out of it, fullscreen he also has the tracking laser/missiles and the probes.
Try to stay on his grill as much as you can coz thats where she's better than him (upclose), give him space and/or time and he'll start doing shit with his trait on and probes/mines behind him and it'll get stupid really quick.

It takes a bit to learn the MU but its managable imo, 5.5-4.5 lex favor. You can also bust out a pocket DS/Cyborg if needed and the lex wont even get to move

Thanks for the reply, so I just played like 30 games with the guy and he won nearly all of them. I think it was a case of me not knowing the matchup at all and also the fact he was way better than me. After a good few games the matches starting getting closer. I found MB mace throw to be a good way to get in. Lex has some really annoying trap with the MB missiles, if he gets you and spends the meter he can hit you like 3 times in a row. I dont think there is a way for HG to get out of it.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Okay...so...this was my FIRST severely competent Doomsday. I will admit I was taken by surprise and quite frankly am unaware of Doomsday's strings/frame traps/etc., etc., He completely bodies me in some matches and then I start to figure some shit out...but Idk...maybe I had an off night but I'm def. thinking this is 5-5...at least. I completely froze when he did his teleport punch thingy...lol

Metzos Boodendorf Espio Eternal Blaze @AsphyxiaDyslexia

 

[Metzos]

RunwayMafia, once you get used blocking his ES mix ups it gets much better. Against Nova front dash it when DD leaves the screen, not before. It needs a bit timing, but once you ve got the hang of it, DD gets punished with a full combo. Also from what i ve seen from your matches HG can even evade it with that aerial dash move she has. Could you pm if HG has any frame traps?

 

[Boodendorf]

Or you can mb b3 it on reaction, unless the DD has his trait on, in that case forward dash.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Or you can mb b3 it on reaction, unless the DD has his trait on, in that case forward dash.

Bood...my jewish ass is very stingy when it comes to meter usage...isn't there a way to take him out of the teleport WHILE in flight?

 

[Boodendorf]

Bood...my jewish ass is very stingy when it comes to meter usage...isn't there a way to take him out of the teleport WHILE in flight?

You could try flight 2. Or you could just d2 him as he fall down if you really don't want to use meter, timing isn't very hard.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Hey guys i found out that on the Doomsday MU WE~1 beats his supernova! But the timing is a bit difficult!!
Also... The Wonder Woman vs Hawkgirl MU is not 4-6, it's 5-5 well.. In my personal experience, and i actually play that MU with a great WW player so often

 

[Espio]

Doomsday versus Hawkgirl is one of my favorite match ups in the game so I'm very excited checking this set out. I have it as 5-5. It's one of the few match ups where I feel she goes even despite flight being a non-factor for the most part.

I feel like Hawkgirl's rushdown/upclose game is solid enough to hang with him in that regard, it's all a matter of guarding his mix ups like earthshaker right and I think you can punish non-meter burn venom for full combo with forward 1, wing evade 2 into whatever you want as well as up venom.

Uppercut blows up body splash really well too into combo of choice, down 1 seems to be very good for checking trait too. Might also be able to uppercut super nova as well if timed correctly.

Versus Doomsday the main thing is to not feel overwhelmed by him when he gets in, get comfortable with the match up and definitely don't be afraid to go on the offensive and pressure him.

You seemed to have adjusted really well to him later on in the set, I liked how you used wing evade 3 to go through him with his trait on .

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Guys i have been having problems connecting F1~WE ;_; can anybody help me?

 

[RunwayMafia]

Guys i have been having problems connecting F1~WE ;_; can anybody help me?

Yeah its weird at first...it's fast.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Yeah its weird at first...it's fast.

Ohh thanks! I'm finally getting it

 

[nuttyAFA]

Hey guys i found out that on the Doomsday MU WE~1 beats his supernova! But the timing is a bit difficult!!
Also... The Wonder Woman vs Hawkgirl MU is not 4-6, it's 5-5 well.. In my personal experience, and i actually play that MU with a great WW player so often

I completely disagree with your WW assessment. i think that matchup is easily 4-6 in her favor, and once that character is fully unlocked it will probably get worse.

You can completely ignore her sword stance and the fact she can bash your face in with the shield and then out d1 you to death, and this fight is still completely in her favor.

All of this is in whip stance:
-her b2 completely shuts hawkgirl down on the ground. approaching her is extremely difficult as this move just beats everything. it even stuffs pretty much all wakeup options, this move is insane
-going to the air provides nothing here. her d2 is very very good, so trying to divekick as an approach is foolish. she can parry your mace tosses ON REACTION and then the best part is if you think you can mb shoulder to punish her, nope. she recovers so fast that not only will she ALWAYS be able to block it, she can actually hit d2 and get a punish on you for even thinking you could try that
-her mid screen damage is far greater than hawkgirl
-her corner game is better than hawkgirl
-she has air mobility and can do instant air demi goddess charge
-her 50/50 game is much more brutal than HG's b22/b23
-lasso spin also spits on a lot of HG's stuff and is only like -9 on block (which is ridiculous to me but oh well)

I really can't see this as an even matchup. Hawkgirl's only chance is to get a knockdown early and push her ass to the corner, you cant dance in the middle, you can only stand toe to toe for so long

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I completely disagree with your WW assessment. i think that matchup is easily 4-6 in her favor, and once that character is fully unlocked it will probably get worse.

You can completely ignore her sword stance and the fact she can bash your face in with the shield and then out d1 you to death, and this fight is still completely in her favor.

All of this is in whip stance:
-her b2 completely shuts hawkgirl down on the ground. approaching her is extremely difficult as this move just beats everything. it even stuffs pretty much all wakeup options, this move is insane
-going to the air provides nothing here. her d2 is very very good, so trying to divekick as an approach is foolish. she can parry your mace tosses ON REACTION and then the best part is if you think you can mb shoulder to punish her, nope. she recovers so fast that not only will she ALWAYS be able to block it, she can actually hit d2 and get a punish on you for even thinking you could try that
-her mid screen damage is far greater than hawkgirl
-her corner game is better than hawkgirl
-she has air mobility and can do instant air demi goddess charge
-her 50/50 game is much more brutal than HG's b22/b23
-lasso spin also spits on a lot of HG's stuff and is only like -9 on block (which is ridiculous to me but oh well)

I really can't see this as an even matchup. Hawkgirl's only chance is to get a knockdown early and push her ass to the corner, you cant dance in the middle, you can only stand toe to toe for so long

Well! Hawkgirl has the air control on this match up! Straight mace toss makes impossible to do any air move, including jump for Wonder Woman!, up close! We have great pressure, and Wonder Woman has good frame traps that actually only give her a free D1! I donk know why we would be flying up close against Wonder Woman ! Actually we can't stay in the air so much time on tis match up! If you are using flight you must stop doing it! And even worse, using flight being up close with her! Hawkgirl's wake ups are useless because Wonder Woman can easily get close to you after Lasso grab and use air downward punch which defeats every of our wake ups, or air dash for full combo punish! Once you know Wonder Wman's corner game it's easy to know what's next and there is nothing that you can't push block! The MB Mace tosses of course will hit her if we use them at the right distance! It's a 5-5 Hawkgirl wins the air/ full screen game while Wonder Woman wins up close, and actually her frame traps once you know her also you will know how to react, maybe because i use both characters i know what to do and not against her. But it's 5-5

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

I agree that WW-HG is definitely in WW's favor, dunno by how much but definitely not a 5-5, she has too many tools to negate flight and she's alot better on the ground and has better damage and mixups. I dont see how this is 5-5 at all.


@Aspyxia: how does HG control the air in this MU? WW has airdash, air charge move, tiara toss (upwards and the air straight one), b2, d2, uppercut and parry to negate mace tosses.
And plz dont say straight mace toss coz if you whiff any mace toss she gets a free instant air charge.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I agree that WW-HG is definitely in WW's favor, dunno by how much but definitely not a 5-5, she has too many tools to negate flight and she's alot better on the ground and has better damage and mixups. I dont see how this is 5-5 at all.


@Aspyxia: how does HG control the air in this MU? WW has airdash, air charge move, tiara toss (upwards and the air straight one), b2, d2, uppercut and parry to negate mace tosses.
And plz dont say straight mace toss coz if you whiff any mace toss she gets a free instant air charge.

If we straight mace toss zone her! She wont be able of do ANY of that moves! Of course we won't be doing it on flight! If we use flight and be in the air so happy at any part of the screen she will blow us up! Zone her with instant air straight mace toss in jump! Never, never, never fly against her! She does not get a free air demigodess if you are not flying lol! I don't know why the hell we would be flying at B2 distance against her, that's a point that i don't understand! Also she has a gread D2 but ours is better, the only difference is that she can get more damage from a successful D2 than us! And Wonder Woman has no good mix ups! The good thing of her are her frame traps, which include 33 and B2 but as what i said in my last post, if you know her frame traps you will know how to react

 

[nuttyAFA]

If we straight mace toss zone her! She wont be able of do ANY of that moves! Of course we won't be doing it on flight! If we use flight and be in the air so happy at any part of the screen she will blow us up! Zone her with instant air straight mace toss in jump! Never, never, never fly against her! She does not get a free air demigodess if you are not flying lol! I don't know why the hell we would be flying at B2 distance against her, that's a point that i don't understand! Also she has a gread D2 but ours is better, the only difference is that she can get more damage from a successful D2 than us! And Wonder Woman has no good mix ups! The good thing of her are her frame traps, which include 33 and B2 but as what i said in my last post, if you know her frame traps you will know how to react

no way, straight mace toss on the ground is a terrible idea, she has too many answers for it. sure you can defend against her, but nothing you are saying is any different then what every other character can do to defend against WW. HG d2 is not better at all. WW's hits behind her to such a ridiculous degree you cant be anywhere above her no matter what character.

No good mixups? she has a low starter that goes into big combo damage, and b2 is an overhead. you keep saying dont fly, but that was my point, you have no reason to be in the air. HG does not win full screen, she does not have better air control then WW. b2 blows you up touching the ground as well, not just flying low. this is a bad matchup once you fight a real WW player who knows even just half her tools.

edit: actually i will say straight mace toss with the meterburn shoulder is usefull in this matchup, just not a naked mace toss

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

oh so you do them w/o flight and drop straight down? that i can kiiiinda see, I'll have to try it out to see i guess. I just assume MTs are always done from flight lol.

her b2 is just there to mention in case you're flying and she gets close enough to use it.

See you saying "never ever fly" and saying its 5-5 doesnt make sense lol, if she completely negates one very important tool in our arsenal then there's no way that this shit's even >__>

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

no way, straight mace toss on the ground is a terrible idea, she has too many answers for it. sure you can defend against her, but nothing you are saying is any different then what every other character can do to defend against WW. HG d2 is not better at all. WW's hits behind her to such a ridiculous degree you cant be anywhere above her no matter what character.

No good mixups? she has a low starter that goes into big combo damage, and b2 is an overhead. you keep saying dont fly, but that was my point, you have no reason to be in the air. HG does not win full screen, she does not have better air control then WW. b2 blows you up touching the ground as well, not just flying low. this is a bad matchup once you fight a real WW player who knows even just half her tools.

What? I never meant the ground mace toss! The air ones! And yes hawkgirl has the same reach of Wonder Woman's D2 but it's faster.
That's my point? What the hell we would be above her? OMG of course if you fly up close against Wonder Woman you will get blown ip and Soooo hard, she takes out Every WW air move! How she wouldn't have better air control, and flying low, high or wherever is a horrible idea! My point is that if you fly at any distance she will reach you, never ever tougch trait against her, but defent your air control! And actually i play this match up with the easily best WW on PSN if you want search him, he is the best Wonder Woman on PSN soooo far! We always have pretty close matches! Add him xFadedMist And i also use Wonder Woman. I prefectly know the character. And maybe that's one of the reasons why i know how to fight her idk.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

oh so you do them w/o flight and drop straight down? that i can kiiiinda see, I'll have to try it out to see i guess. I just assume MTs are always done from flight lol.

her b2 is just there to mention in case you're flying and she gets close enough to use it.

See you saying "never ever fly" and saying its 5-5 doesnt make sense lol, if she completely negates one very important tool in our arsenal then there's no way that this shit's even >__>

Lol yes, a point on this is that you can't do the straight mace tosses so high too! With instant straight mace toss you will be completely safe! And no! The only case where WW is supposed to hit you with B2 is on pressure! She will never catch you on flight, since we are not supposed to use it <3
And lol ik! But Wonder Woman is not taking out her air control, she is just taking out the flight. The reason why you can't fly is because if you send a mace toss, you will keep in the air, and she will blow you up with an instant air demigodess which is fast as hell. But if you don't use flight, you will fall down safely.

 

[nuttyAFA]

Lol yes, a point on this is that you can't do the straight mace tosses so high too! With instant straight mace toss you will be completely safe! And no! The only case where WW is supposed to hit you with B2 is on pressure! She will never catch you on flight, since we are not supposed to use it <3
And lol ik! But Wonder Woman is not taking out her air control, she is just taking out the flight. The reason why you can't fly is because if you send a mace toss, you will keep in the air, and she will blow you up with an instant air demigodess which is fast as hell. But if you don't use flight, you will fall down safely.

she can just parry the air straight mace toss, its completely useless that way, doesn't matter if its safe, you have to have the life lead, which you probably dont. you have no choice but to close the distance on the ground, but HG isnt a fast dash character so she is exposed to b2 on her approach no matter what she uses (dash, WE3, MC, etc). WW controls the pace of this match completely unless she is down on life by a significant margin

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

she can just parry the air straight mace toss, its completely useless that way, doesn't matter if its safe, you have to have the life lead, which you probably dont. you have no choice but to close the distance on the ground, but HG isnt a fast dash character so she is exposed to b2 on her approach no matter what she uses (dash, WE3, MC, etc). WW controls the pace of this match completely unless she is down on life by a significant margin

Well why probably not? You fear so much B2 my friend! If you know how to deal with her B2 is not a deal to get in! Of course if you don't dash & block she will get you, but i don't get why you would dash to her being at B2 distance! You have mace charge at that distance! And if we have the life lead Wonder Woman's only ways to get in is on sword stance (which makes less chip) or with an Ir demigodess which is -14 on block

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Ohh and i forgot to write! That the air straight mace toss is to take out all her air moves, it can hit her, it can whiff sometimes, but she won't be able to jump.

 

[RunwayMafia]

I agree with Dyslexia. Some of the points being made in favor of WW could also be made for the HG player.
A.) People forget that a good HG player can instant air straight mace...so no, she doesn't lose from full screen.
B.) HG's d2 has incredible range...it goes behind her shoulders.
C.) HG can wing evade out WW's 33
D.) Hg can punish her demigoddess air superman move if baited.
E.) HG is fast with better mobility on the ground.

I play Akromaniac's WW a lot (he is a day 1 WW player and is a beast) and it can be argued it's an even 5-5. Just my two cents.

 

[Tiger Wong]

About MU with WW......

- How the hell is she gonna parry air straight mace toss? Do you know what you're talking about?
- She can parry the mace toss and block the MB? Good. HG is at + 4 if you block the MB of an air MT and +15 off a ground one.
- Who in their right mind would try to dive kick as an approach? Yeah, it's foolish, because only a moron would do it. The only time to really do it is when you properly place it to hit the opponentswaist and lower so it's safe.
- WW's D2 beats HG dive kick? Yeah, if HG does it from the top of the screen and is ready for it. Good luck beat it after a MC MB~trait or after a d1. Honestly, WW's D2 is really beating HG's retarded ass jump and her being at the top of the scren when she does the dive kick more than she's beating her actual dive kick.
- And speaking of air stuff...... good luck trying to do all that air dashing stuff around HG's D2. It's probably the 2nd best in the game after Aquaman's D2.
- IADG is like -15 or more on block. What's she gonna do? Do it on reaction to seeing an MC? Good luck with that.
- Lasso spin is only good for a wakeup. And HG has got the 3~WE/3MC tech to totally shit on that. And it's -9. HG can punish that.
- WW's corner game is better than HG's. So? Is this supposed to mean anything? HG's got a goopd corner game too. Damn near everybody has a good corner game. What is that statement supposed to mean. When you're in the corner vs HG do you say to yourself.......

"Whew! Good thing WW has a better corner game than HG. Knowing this will surely get me out of the corner."

(BTW, HG can MC out of a B2 on wakeup in the corner. WW has to change her timing so it hits her on the way up. Not when she usually does it.)

It's 5-5. Maybe even 5.5-4.5. Even if you wanna say its 6-4 WW favor, it's fine because the MU can go either way. WW can deal more damage than HG mid screen. Duh. So does nearly the entire roster. You wanna talk life leads? WW sucks with the life lead unless she's in SS. And vs HG, WW wouldn't want to go there. B2 is a great move. But she has to throw it out early to beat MC. It's not like she can react to it and then B2 it. She's better off doing neutral/backward jumps and punishing the whiff or doing random D3s and trying to whiff punish.

She can't control the matchup with just her B2, D2, and Lasso Parry. That's crazy talk. Her B2 is not Lantern's Might. THAT move can control HG.
Batgirl's Smoke Bomb can control HG.