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Guide Dealing with breath loop - strategies for the whole cast (WIP)

YOMI Reno_Racks

YOMI Reno_Racks

I have a dream...
Batgirl can d1xxbatwheel or d1xxbf3 and MB into 30% vortex

She can also df2 and mb into vortex but it's risky

Back dashing and whiff punishing with b12 is usually best but it obviously doesn't work if your cornered
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Warrior
I'm pretty sure everybody can backdash out, or at least back dash safely. Before certain characters got punished by f23 for trying to back dash after breathe and that shouldn't be the case anymore. There are definitely characters that backdash but get stuck in pressure again(probably all the characters that got punished for backdashing before - Ares, Deathstroke, Lex, Raven, Doomsday, Green Lantern, Hawkgirl).

MB b3/f3 probably isn't universal. I haven't tested since the patch, but Ares used to be unable to MB B3. It'd get stuffed by the second hit of f23. I'm sure other characters have similar issue.

D1 is not universal. Bane can't d1. Ares d1 will whiff and he'll get punished. It may be possible to time it correctly with Ares so that the d1 will hit but it's difficult and you definitely can't just d1 the second you come out of blockstun. There may be others that don't work.


Edit: Ares is still unable to MB B3. As far as I know Ares only options are MB F3, pushblock, standing 1(trades or whiffs), or d1(usually whiffs). A backdash forces you to block the end of f23~breathe, MB b3 gets stuffed, and d1 is his only normal faster than 8 frames.
 
Axel_Redd

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
i was wondering tho...couldn't u just block the f23 and then let the breath hit you? especially if ur using a character like Zod, Sinestro or Deathstroke, who'd probably play the MU better from further away?
 
WannabePlayer

WannabePlayer

Apprentice
DownfouralitY said:
Ares really has no other options then the universal punishes. If he tries to go for the MB godsmack after the breath he can be hit out of it trying to input it.
Click to expand...
What about a well timed d1, b1, or a teleport? Teleport can really change Superman's game. Wanna test this out in an online practice session sometime? If we can find a way to punish it/get around it online, it should definitely work offline.
 
DownfouralitY

DownfouralitY

Master
WannabePlayer said:
What about a well timed d1, b1, or a teleport? Teleport can really change Superman's game. Wanna test this out in an online practice session sometime? If we can find a way to punish it/get around it online, it should definitely work offline.
Click to expand...
yes definitely, how about tomorrow?
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Warrior
Scorpion can d3 or teleport punch.

I'm pretty sure Flash's d2 doesn't go under f2, the frame data on it is just wrong and his d2 is a 6 or 7 frame move that flat out beats f2

THTB said:
If GL can backdash out, I'm sure everyone else can, lol.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about that. GL's dash is miserably slow, but it actually covers an ok distance. Some characters barely move when they backdash, and that's something to take into account. Can GL punish a follow up f23 if he backdashes after breathe, or at least back up out of pressure? Some characters definitely can't - they just end up block f23~breathe again.
I'm also not completely sure that every character can even backdash without getting punished. Ares has a pretty awful backdash and he can do it, but there are a few characters that might have slightly worse backdashes and actually still get blown up

WannabePlayer said:
What about a well timed d1, b1, or a teleport? Teleport can really change Superman's game. Wanna test this out in an online practice session sometime? If we can find a way to punish it/get around it online, it should definitely work offline.
Click to expand...
Not to discourage you from testing stuff, but b1 and teleport are both way too slow and are easily stuffed by f23. d1 is his best bet, but it whiffs. Mess around with d1, maybe you'll get better results than me. It's hard to test with 1 person

Axel_Redd said:
i was wondering tho...couldn't u just block the f23 and then let the breath hit you? especially if ur using a character like Zod, Sinestro or Deathstroke, who'd probably play the MU better from further away?
Click to expand...
That works and puts you fullscreen, I used to do it sometimes when breathe was +1. Problems is it involves taking damage, doesn't work in the corner, and if Supes catches on he might be ballsy enough to start randomly MB'ing breathe(although I suppose that gets you out one way or another). He can also dash twice and almost be in again by the time you get up. It's probably an option to be aware of though
 
Axel_Redd

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
4x4lo8o said:
Scorpion can d3 or teleport punch.

I'm pretty sure Flash's d2 doesn't go under f2, the frame data on it is just wrong and his d2 is a 6 or 7 frame move that flat out beats f2



I'm not sure about that. GL's dash is miserably slow, but it actually covers an ok distance. Some characters barely move when they backdash, and that's something to take into account. Can GL punish a follow up f23 if he backdashes after breathe, or at least back up out of pressure? Some characters definitely can't - they just end up block f23~breathe again.



Not to discourage you from testing stuff, but b1 and teleport are both way too slow and are easily stuffed by f23. d1 is his best bet, but it whiffs. Mess around with d1, maybe you'll get better results than me. It's hard to test with 1 person



That works and puts you fullscreen, I used to do it sometimes when breathe was +1. Problems is it involves taking damage, doesn't work in the corner, and if Supes catches on he might be ballsy enough to start randomly MB'ing breathe(although I suppose that gets you out one way or another). He can also dash twice and almost be in again by the time you get up. It's probably an option to be aware of though
Click to expand...
well with zoning characters its at least better than being stuck in pressure.
 
DownfouralitY

DownfouralitY

Master
4x4lo8o said:
Scorpion can d3 or teleport punch.

I'm pretty sure Flash's d2 doesn't go under f2, the frame data on it is just wrong and his d2 is a 6 or 7 frame move that flat out beats f2



I'm not sure about that. GL's dash is miserably slow, but it actually covers an ok distance. Some characters barely move when they backdash, and that's something to take into account. Can GL punish a follow up f23 if he backdashes after breathe, or at least back up out of pressure? Some characters definitely can't - they just end up block f23~breathe again.
I'm also not completely sure that every character can even backdash without getting punished. Ares has a pretty awful backdash and he can do it, but there are a few characters that might have slightly worse backdashes and actually still get blown up



Not to discourage you from testing stuff, but b1 and teleport are both way too slow and are easily stuffed by f23. d1 is his best bet, but it whiffs. Mess around with d1, maybe you'll get better results than me. It's hard to test with 1 person



That works and puts you fullscreen, I used to do it sometimes when breathe was +1. Problems is it involves taking damage, doesn't work in the corner, and if Supes catches on he might be ballsy enough to start randomly MB'ing breathe(although I suppose that gets you out one way or another). He can also dash twice and almost be in again by the time you get up. It's probably an option to be aware of though
Click to expand...
If you whiff the d1 and do another one, would it connect?
 
Mr. Mileena

Mr. Mileena

Champion
THTB said:
Looooool there's no way GL avoids it, while Raven doesn't.
Click to expand...
Against a Superman that loops it yes, but walking back gets the job done as well since she has really good movement.

It's also not ideal to use because if you run across a superman that actually knows what he's doing, the backdash is going to kill you.
 
THTB

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Mr. Mileena said:
Against a Superman that loops it yes, but walking back gets the job done as well since she has really good movement.

It's also not ideal to use because if you run across a superman that actually knows what he's doing, the backdash is going to kill you.
Click to expand...
Not ideal? It deals with repeated f23s. Just because it has a counter itself doesn't make it any less useful lol.

The entire thing is reads, and there are characters who punish Supes's options in the f23 loop pretty hard...harder than he can if he's not in the corner.
 
Zoidberg747

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Axel_Redd said:
i was wondering tho...couldn't u just block the f23 and then let the breath hit you? especially if ur using a character like Zod, Sinestro or Deathstroke, who'd probably play the MU better from further away?
Click to expand...
This is a good idea if he doesnt have meter. If he does he can cancel into MB Breathe for a full combo.

Good thought though
 
Mr. Mileena

Mr. Mileena

Champion
THTB said:
Not ideal? It deals with repeated f23s. Just because it has a counter itself doesn't make it any less useful lol.

The entire thing is reads, and there are characters who punish Supes's options in the f23 loop pretty hard...harder than he can if he's not in the corner.
Click to expand...
The thing that sucks though is that sometimes the 3 will catch you as you backdash (on block) with Raven
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
AK Reno_Racks said:
Batgirl can d1xxbatwheel or d1xxbf3 and MB into 30% vortex

She can also df2 and mb into vortex but it's risky

Back dashing and whiff punishing with b12 is usually best but it obviously doesn't work if your cornered
Click to expand...
Batgirl has the shittest d1 (8 frames iirc) which makes it clash with f2. df2 is 6 frames so you can reversal out of repeated f23 pressure into vortex. However on whiff or block it is full combo punished by (ironically) f23.
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
Very good guide.

But no way I'm going to blindly Corp Charge after an f23 unless I'm 100 percent they're going to braindead spam it on me. I'd rather burn meter on MB b3 than risk a 30-50 percent Supes combo..
 
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