Match-up Discussion Hawkgirl Matchup Discussion

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

I've said it many times and I'll say it again, using this tech, hawkgirl can beat nearly every single wakeup attack (the exception seems to be DS, this little fuck).
Try it yourself, go against lex, knock him down and set him to wu corp charge, do 3 xx we2 and whoosh, it'll whiff. It's not easy to do, but it helps in many matchups. I've done it myself several times /online/.

Wing Evade GOT INVINCIBILITY FRAMES which makes the tech work really well.

ThIs Is big. Time To Start Leveling Up With This Tech. Hard knock Downs Followed Up With This For Free Combo? I Spent a Little Time In The Lab With this And Like You Said, Its Not Easy, But With Practice, This Is A Viable And Useful Tech.

 

[Jon Berg]

I play Theo quite a bit...its tough but Superman can be managed. And lol at Jon Berg...I question if he actually supports HG...he needs to drop her and go beg for nerfs for a different character *rolls eyes*

Haven't posted anything in a while here, not sure where that came from. I still play her 95% of my matches, as its easy at this point. But as far as hype, I watched most of evo with some friends that are mainly SF4 players, and we caught some HG matches. The whole time they were asking what people can really do and how boring the match was. But to be fair they thought most of the matches period were boring, so could just be a game thing.

 

[Boodendorf]

ThIs Is big. Time To Start Leveling Up With This Tech. Hard knock Downs Followed Up With This For Free Combo? I Spent a Little Time In The Lab With this And Like You Said, Its Not Easy, But With Practice, This Is A Viable And Useful Tech.

That's the reason I now end my bnbs with a divekick on a juggled opponent, gives a free hard knockdown everytime. sets up perfectly for a dash, 3.
Add the fact that 3 xx we also avoids pushblock and you got the safest and most advantageous wakeup pressure of the game.
But we should keep that stuff secret and still let other people think she's low tier .

 

[Tiger Wong]

And boring. Don't forget boring.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

And That is easy to punish her, once whififng, since i have seen a lot of people saying that is easy to whiff and punish her WE3 lol, let's make them think she is B tier

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

That's the reason I now end my bnbs with a divekick on a juggled opponent, gives a free hard knockdown everytime. sets up perfectly for a dash, 3.
Add the fact that 3 xx we also avoids pushblock and you got the safest and most advantageous wakeup pressure of the game.
But we should keep that stuff secret and still let other people think she's low tier .

On this topic, I do love the fact that you can dash in on opponent with corner hard knockdown if opponent attempts a wake up so they're wakeup is reversed and you get free punish. I'm working on adjusting my corner combos to the hard knockdown ender you listed (B1>4>1>2>D3).

I did want to ask though what setups we have off of a hard knockdown midscreen. Obviously, I think the primary option would be 3>WE2 to blow up a bunch of wakeups and when opponent catches on, they'll just start blocking which is still good as we're +4 off WE2 on block anyway.

What else can we do off midscreen hard knockdown? I don't like crossup J3 as an option. Too slow and obvious.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

On this topic, I do love the fact that you can dash in on opponent with corner hard knockdown if opponent attempts a wake up so they're wakeup is reversed and you get free punish. I'm working on adjusting my corner combos to the hard knockdown ender you listed (B1>4>1>2>D3).

I did want to ask though what setups we have off of a hard knockdown midscreen. Obviously, I think the primary option would be 3>WE2 to blow up a bunch of wakeups and when opponent catches on, they'll just start blocking which is still good as we're +4 off WE2 on block anyway.

What else can we do off midscreen hard knockdown? I don't like crossup J3 as an option. Too slow and obvious.

D1~WE works

 

[Tiger Wong]

I've said it many times and I'll say it again, using this tech, hawkgirl can beat nearly every single wakeup attack (the exception seems to be DS, this little fuck).
Try it yourself, go against lex, knock him down and set him to wu corp charge, do 3 xx we2 and whoosh, it'll whiff. It's not easy to do, but it helps in many matchups. I've done it myself several times /online/.

Wing Evade GOT INVINCIBILITY FRAMES which makes the tech work really well.

Not to put a damper on things but there are more wakeups other than DS that beat this tech. From my findings.......

I do the tech off of HGs D3 because that's what I connect the most with. The tech doesn't beat most supers.

Batgirl-
That gay ass Batwheel beats it.
The flying Bat is tough to beat. You have to have almost perfect timing to phase through that uppercut looking thing.

WW-
Amazonian Punch beats WE (it's a two-hitter. That seems to be the theme with most moves that beat this tech)
But the tech beats the Lasso Spin and Almathean Bash

Superman -
The tech pretty much rapes his fucking face. Only thing he can do is Super (which makes him no different than anybody else). Everything else get fucked over (When are we gonna start admitting this matchup is in our favor?)

DD -
The tech rapes his face (although I haven't tried the MB version of straight Venom)

Bane -
The tech rapes his face (Venom can't do shit if it whiffs)

GL -
Rapes Lanterns Might (and looks good when she does it)
Turbine Smash beats it but not 32.
Beats everything else as the 3 hits and you can combo into WE3

Black Adam -
Rapes his face. Timing is similar to beating GL's Lanterns Might but it beats the Cage and the Storm which is really all we care about. The other moves get 3~WE3

Sinestro -
Rapes his face. All we really care about is the Arachnid and it beats it. Well...... we care about the Pew! Pew! but nothing we can do about that.

KF -
Beats her projectiles obviously
Beats Slide. The funny thing is..... if you do the tech right, her slide stops right in front of you instead of flying past you. She stops in perfect range to get a WE2 to the face. It's quite comical.
Does NOT beat the weird reversal as she reverses the 3. This is the same as with........

Batman -
That reversal does what it's supposed to do. It reverses the 3.
Beats everything else
Also to add a note about Batman's Slide...... None of the WE attacks hit Batman because he slides past HG. However, if you cancel the WE into trait, you can hit him with Flight 2d3 and start the tech all over again. lol

DS -
Fuck you Slade.

Ares -
That jumping unblockable thing you have to treat like Batman's slide. The WE attacks will miss because Ares flies behind you. What you do is....... Cancel WE to trait, fly backwards until you meet with Ares, and then bust him in the helmet with Flight 2d3. And start the tech all over again. lol.
The teleports are weird to the tech but you can make it to your advantage. If you do the tech and ports behind you, if you wait until the last second you can end up behind him AFTER HE TELEPORTED and make him block your WE2 because he cant do shit else without getting hit. If he teleports in front of you, it's the same situation except you don't have to wait until the last second to press 2 off the WE.

Catwoman -
Straight Whip beats us clean. Nothing we can do about it.
The tech beats Cat Dash but we have to Cancel WE into trait almost immediately and hit her with d3. Everything else is too slow or misses as she goes by us or stays in front of us (the places she goes on the dash are fucking weird)

Shazam -
The tech does no good vs the torpedo. Everything we do whiffs as he whiffs behind us. And I'm pretty sure he can hit us before we cover from turning around in WE so all we can do is press 3 and run away.
Vs the command throw you have to press the 3 right away to punish the whiffed grab because he recovers very quickly. But if he blocks the WE 2/3.... we're still in good so it's not that bad.
If he teleports behind you, there's nothing you can do. Best course is to probably run away.
If he teleports away from you, you can chase him with WE3. You land right in front of him and you can probably hit him with a d1 and make him block before he can do anything.

Grundy -
Birdnose tech rape Grundy face (say it like Grundy)

Flash -
Beats the charge easy.
If you do the tech correctly, you're gonna get hit by the ground pound. But if you delay the 3 slighlty as Flash gets up, he gets hit with the 3 and whatever WE attack you want.
God bless anybody who can do the tech and consistently beat his damn uppercut. The timing has to be perfect. I've only got a few times out of 100.

Raven -
Beats up all her attacks.
You can't punish her teleports but you can pressure the one to your front with WE3 and you have to wait until the last second to pressure the back one with WE2.

Aquaman -
He's an asshole.
His trident rush fucks you up.
So does his scoop because it does two hits. The gay ass thing looks like it should miss you but apparently there's a 2nd hit in that stupid thing that nails you out of the WE.
And nothing gets through that gay Water Shield if they hold it.

Cyborg -
You pretty much fuck all his wakeup attacks up.
You can either delay the WE2 till the last second vs his tackle or simply cancel the WE into 2d3
I didn't test it vs his grapples though.

Scorpion -
The teleport punch fucks us up.
We can beat the flip kick.
And for some strange reason, it's difficult to beat out that leg takedown. WTH? That stupid thing is two-hits? Oh fuck you Scorpion. You can beat it with the tech if you do it earlier than usual. The timing you use to beat the flip kick is different to beat the leg takedown.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Not to put a damper on things but there are more wakeups other than DS that beat this tech. From my findings.......

I do the tech off of HGs D3 because that's what I connect the most with. The tech doesn't beat most supers.

Batgirl-
That gay ass Batwheel beats it.
The flying Bat is tough to beat. You have to have almost perfect timing to phase through that uppercut looking thing.

WW-
Amazonian Punch beats WE (it's a two-hitter. That seems to be the theme with most moves that beat this tech)
But the tech beats the Lasso Spin and Almathean Bash

Superman -
The tech pretty much rapes his fucking face. Only thing he can do is Super (which makes him no different than anybody else). Everything else get fucked over (When are we gonna start admitting this matchup is in our favor?)

DD -
The tech rapes his face (although I haven't tried the MB version of straight Venom)

Bane -
The tech rapes his face (Venom can't do shit if it whiffs)

GL -
Rapes Lanterns Might (and looks good when she does it)
Turbine Smash beats it but not 32.
Beats everything else as the 3 hits and you can combo into WE3

Black Adam -
Rapes his face. Timing is similar to beating GL's Lanterns Might but it beats the Cage and the Storm which is really all we care about. The other moves get 3~WE3

Sinestro -
Rapes his face. All we really care about is the Arachnid and it beats it. Well...... we care about the Pew! Pew! but nothing we can do about that.

KF -
Beats her projectiles obviously
Beats Slide. The funny thing is..... if you do the tech right, her slide stops right in front of you instead of flying past you. She stops in perfect range to get a WE2 to the face. It's quite comical.
Does NOT beat the weird reversal as she reverses the 3. This is the same as with........

Batman -
That reversal does what it's supposed to do. It reverses the 3.
Beats everything else
Also to add a note about Batman's Slide...... None of the WE attacks hit Batman because he slides past HG. However, if you cancel the WE into trait, you can hit him with Flight 2d3 and start the tech all over again. lol

DS -
Fuck you Slade.

Ares -
That jumping unblockable thing you have to treat like Batman's slide. The WE attacks will miss because Ares flies behind you. What you do is....... Cancel WE to trait, fly backwards until you meet with Ares, and then bust him in the helmet with Flight 2d3. And start the tech all over again. lol.
The teleports are weird to the tech but you can make it to your advantage. If you do the tech and ports behind you, if you wait until the last second you can end up behind him AFTER HE TELEPORTED and make him block your WE2 because he cant do shit else without getting hit. If he teleports in front of you, it's the same situation except you don't have to wait until the last second to press 2 off the WE.

Catwoman -
Straight Whip beats us clean. Nothing we can do about it.
The tech beats Cat Dash but we have to Cancel WE into trait almost immediately and hit her with d2. Everything else is too slow or misses as she goes by us or stays in front of us (the places she goes on the dash are fucking weird)

Shazam -
The tech does no good vs the torpedo. Everything we do whiffs as he whiffs behind us. And I'm pretty sure he can hit us before we cover from turning around in WE so all we can do is press 3 and run away.
Vs the command throw you have to press the 3 right away to punish the whiffed grab because he recovers very quickly. But if he blocks the WE 2/3.... we're still in good so it's not that bad.
If he teleports behind you, there's nothing you can do. Best course is to probably run away.
If he teleports away from you, you can chase him with WE3. You land right in front of him and you can probably hit him with a d1 and make him block before he can do anything.

Grundy -
Birdnose tech rape Grundy face (say it like Grundy)

Flash -
Beats the charge easy.
If you do the tech correctly, you're gonna get hit by the ground pound. But if you delay the 3 slighlty as Flash gets up, he gets hit with the 3 and whatever WE attack you want.
God bless anybody who can do the tech and consistently beat his damn uppercut. The timing has to be perfect. I've only got a few times out of 100.

Raven -
Beats up all her attacks.
You can't punish her teleports but you can pressure the one to your front with WE3 and you have to wait until the last second to pressure the back one with WE2.

Aquaman -
He's an asshole.
His trident rush fucks you up.
So does his scoop because it does two hits. The gay ass thing looks like it should miss you but apparently there's a 2nd hit in that stupid thing that nails you out of the WE.
And nothing gets through that gay Water Shield if they hold it.

Cyborg -
You pretty much fuck all his wakeup attacks up.
You can either delay the WE2 till the last second vs his tackle or simply cancel the WE into 2d3
I didn't test it vs his grapples though.

Scorpion -
The teleport punch fucks us up.
We can beat the flip kick.
And for some strange reason, it's difficult to beat out that leg takedown. WTH? That stupid thing is two-hits? Oh fuck you Scorpion. You can beat it with the tech if you do it earlier than usual. The timing you use to beat the flip kick is different to beat the leg takedown.

Thank you for posting it! I loved the "rapes his face" part lol! And why don't we try with Mace Charge instead or Wing Evade?

 

[Tiger Wong]

The tech is with WE.

The tech is 3~WE.. You cancel the first hit of the 3 into Wing Evade.

This works vs opponents wakeup because a bunch of technical jargon with invincibility frames and blah blah blah.

The way I interpret it is...... you press 3 as they get up. If they do a move with invincibility frames on it, it's gonna beat your 3. So you do 3~WE so your WE (which has invincibility frames) beats their invinicible wakeup and phases through their move.

MC doesn't reall have the invincibility frames that WE has so doing 3~MC doesn't yield the good results that 3~WE does.

I wish I could record it but I can't make the AI do what I need it to do and hold the damn IPhone at the same time.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

The tech is with WE.

The tech is 3~WE.. You cancel the first hit of the 3 into Wing Evade.

This works vs opponents wakeup because a bunch of technical jargon with invincibility frames and blah blah blah.

The way I interpret it is...... you press 3 as they get up. If they do a move with invincibility frames on it, it's gonna beat your 3. So you do 3~WE so your WE (which has invincibility frames) beats their invinicible wakeup and phases through their move.

MC doesn't reall have the invincibility frames that WE has so doing 3~MC doesn't yield the good results that 3~WE does.

I wish I could record it but I can't make the AI do what I need it to do and hold the damn IPhone at the same time.

Kk, i said that because i tried D1~Mace Charge on Womder Woman's spin and it worked... Let me test it with more wake ups...

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Nvm... It didin't work

 

[Tiger Wong]

Ok fellas. For those who don't know what a few of us are talking about, this is (kinda) what the 3~WE shit looks like......

Vs Doomsday

At :03, and at :016 is 3~WE done properly vs DDs Venom. Inbetween is what it shouldn't look like.
At :30, :42, and at :50 is 3~WE done proplerly vs DDs Upward Venom. Inbetween is what it shouldn't look like.

Please forgive me and my iphone quality.

 

[Chongo]

I'm starting to think NW-HG is 6-4.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I found out something interesting... Seems like we must change this tech for every match up... Because i found out that you can do 3~Mace Charge against specific characters, 3~WE with another specific characters and... 3(with the two hits) against another specific characters the only character that i found impossible to connect with any of this 3 is Batgirl...
If you use 3~Mace Chargeagainst Batman it beats all his wake ups, even his parry, but if he slides it will only duck the move, not punish.

If you use 3(both hits) against Catwoman and Womder Woman it will beat all their wake ups including amazon uppercut, cat dash, cat claws, lasso spin etc.

If you use 3~WE with frost it will defeat her slide (her only good wake up)

And we must check with every character <3 Hawkgirl officially has the best wake up pressure in the game

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I'm starting to think NW-HG is 6-4.

It is

 

[Chongo]

It is

I'm probably alone on that one lol.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I'm probably alone on that one lol.

LOL yes? Why every Nightwing player thinks she is like 8-2 for him? Lol

She can make almost every match better for her, if she abuses trait! But if you play a good hawkgirl player (we usually don't like to abuse trait since it makes the match boring) it will be 4-6 for Nightwing

 

[EmInEnTShAdOw]

On this topic, 3~We doesn't work on Nightwing's wakeups. Obviously, escrima stance isn't even a concern since blowing up wakeup flipkick is as simple as baiting it, walking forward, ducking (while it whiffs), and F11 punishing.

His other wakeups (flying grayson and staff spin) are safe. Against them on hard knockdown, I like to do a dash in neutral divekick because that can reverse the wakeup and allow a whiff punish. If they do staff spin, you'll finish divekick while they're still in active frames and can just dash in whiff punish. If they do flying greyson, you'll either trade or be safe as both moves will whiff.

 

[Boodendorf]

The tech is with WE.

The tech is 3~WE.. You cancel the first hit of the 3 into Wing Evade.

This works vs opponents wakeup because a bunch of technical jargon with invincibility frames and blah blah blah.

The way I interpret it is...... you press 3 as they get up. If they do a move with invincibility frames on it, it's gonna beat your 3. So you do 3~WE so your WE (which has invincibility frames) beats their invinicible wakeup and phases through their move.

MC doesn't reall have the invincibility frames that WE has so doing 3~MC doesn't yield the good results that 3~WE does.

I wish I could record it but I can't make the AI do what I need it to do and hold the damn IPhone at the same time.

That's what I thought on my first tests, but after going deeper I noticed MC has its uses with this tech, as it avoids some things we cannot avoid. MC moves Hawkgirl's hurtbox so fast it can avoid stuff without invincibility frames.

For exemple, 3 xx MC beats Batgirl's cartwheel (when done right). I'm sure some other moves also get beaten by it, I don't remember. I was too lazy to make a video about it when I discovered this tech lol.

 

[Espio]

Boodendorf RunwayMafia Eternal Blaze Tiger Wong DanCock AspyxiaDyslexia- Jon Berg @ everyone else.

I started adding data to the original post. The first character I did was Solomon Grundy please review it if you get a chance, let me know if you'd like to add anything and like I said a couple weeks ago if anybody wants to add any relevant data to any character they have extensive knowledge against please let me know and I'll add it to the original post.


I'd like to have a complete archive of information on all the cast so that new players and even well seasoned ones can reference these match ups and get ideas how to deal with said characters effectively especially since some players have more experience and insight than others.

Match up numbers are okay, but they don't help a player improve or explain why a match up is the way it is in the current version of the game.

This is my Grundy write up and can also be found in the original post of this thread.


I also did a very simplistic write up of the HG mirror match because mirror matches really come down to character knowledge and are 5-5 because obviously all tools are identical so it comes down to player skill, spacing, reads etc. only.

- 6-4

Spoiler

One of Grundy’s main problems versus Hawkgirl is that he has a hard time dealing with her aerial diagonal mace toss zoning. Hawkgirl’s flight trait means that even Grundy’s full screen option of swamp hands is rendered relatively useless for getting in on her forcing him to inch in without the benefit of the mind game of MB swamp hands, which can launch for full combo.

When Grundy does get in on Hawkgirl it is very difficult for him to keep consistent offense going because Hawkgirl’s strings such as back 2, 3 distort her hitbox making walking corpse and other grabs whiff completely while still dealing solid damage and potentially launching Grundy for a full combo. Wing evade 2 and 3 are also great for evading his armored tools and getting a safe distance away to space him out, zone and play footsies. Mace charge shifts her hitbox making it entirely avoid grabs, but experienced Grundy players can use a MB cancelled walking corpse into down 2 to punish mace charge for full combo. This tactic requires meter and can be countered with MB mace charge although since Grundy has a very small hitbox at times MB mace charge’s second hit will whiff on him more so than most of the cast and you can be punished hard, but it does not happen too much to discourage usage of the MB version.

Not only does Hawkgirl set the pace of this match up and outzone him, her basic character design makes Grundy struggle to mount a consistent offensive game when Grundy does get in on her. Damage wise Grundy wins and he can check flight and ambiguous dive kick pressure with his down 2 and anti-air grab so you want to be wary of approaching him as he can check aerial opponents well enough up close.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Wonder Woman vs Hawkgirl 5-5 (One of my favorites)

This is a match up where both characters depend so much from ther air control, in this one both characters have the tools to own the air, this is what makes this match up so hype, for Hawkgirl her best air option is straight mace toss, this will make difficult for Wonder Woman to be able to jump but... Wonder Woman has the advantage to choose from which height to use her air demigodess charge (her best air option), so if she is smart she can use if above or below of the mace toss, Hawkgirl must read the height where her opponent will use that move, so she can throw a mace toss, in this match up the opponents barely will use their rushdown game since both can keep her opponent at far distance (this is what makes this match up an air control fight) but in the rushdown Hawkgirl has great pressure and Wonder Woman has great frame traps with her lasso and sword stances! In the air also Hawkgirl can't stay so much time in the air so i wouldn't recommend to use her trait. This is a very solid 5-5 without any possible advantage of anyone.
If Wonder Woman has Hawkgirl in the corner, Hawkgirl is one of the characters that can get out from her godlike corner game using mace charge when Wonder Woman make her B2, also if the opponent is as smart as to not use the typical corner game and keeps jumping 3 we are in a trouble, since jump 3 will beat all of our moves, so we must block and search an opportunity to get out with D1~Mace Charge or D1~WE

 

[Rickyraws]

All in all, post patch, what are her hardest matchups and why?

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

All in all, post patch, what are her hardest matchups and why?

Her hardest match ups are Batgirl, Sinestro, Lex Luthor and Deathstroke and I have heard that Cyborg gives her a hard time (im not sure because i barely play a good Cyborg, so i won't count him)

Batgirl - Hawkgirl can't do nothing at full screen or up close, this is what i think the most horrible matchup for her... At full scen she can zone us, our only option is to dash and block! Her teleport beats her Wing Evade and mace charge, and up close her cartwheel and her vortex is like to be in the hell.

Sinestro - The same that with Batgirl, but with the difference that we at least stand a chance up close, we can easily pressure him, but that's all, also if we read him we can jump and downward mace charge his projectiles, but the worst thing is that if we read bad a big meteroid will make us fall, it's a big deal to choose between jump and make a bit of damage or stay eating his chip damage but be safe.

Deathstroke - this one is not that bad since Deathstroke is not zoning us, he is waiting to what are we going to do, we also can just dash and block but with the difference that he might use gunshot, might no!
And upclose it's 5-5 since his wake up is unsafe and ours are safe, we got pressure but he has a great jump 3

 

[Espio]

Wonder Woman vs Hawkgirl 5-5 (One of my favorites)

This is a match up where both characters depend so much from ther air control, in this one both characters have the tools to own the air, this is what makes this match up so hype, for Hawkgirl her best air option is straight mace toss, this will make difficult for Wonder Woman to be able to jump but... Wonder Woman has the advantage to choose from which height to use her air demigodess charge (her best air option), so if she is smart she can use if above or below of the mace toss, Hawkgirl must read the height where her opponent will use that move, so she can throw a mace toss, in this match up the opponents barely will use their rushdown game since both can keep her opponent at far distance (this is what makes this match up an air control fight) but in the rushdown Hawkgirl has great pressure and Wonder Woman has great frame traps with her lasso and sword stances! In the air also Hawkgirl can't stay so much time in the air so i wouldn't recommend to use her trait. This is a very solid 5-5 without any possible advantage of anyone.
If Wonder Woman has Hawkgirl in the corner, Hawkgirl is one of the characters that can get out from her godlike corner game using mace charge when Wonder Woman make her B2, also if the opponent is as smart as to not use the typical corner game and keeps jumping 3 we are in a trouble, since jump 3 will beat all of our moves, so we must block and search an opportunity to get out with D1~Mace Charge or D1~WE

I know you play both characters and both are very solid, do you want me to add this to the OP?