Strategy - Master of Souls Unsafe God Ermac

[zaf]

@KNX I have slowly drifted from using F21D2 as much as I originally did. As a follow up to a d1 or d3 on hit, I prefer to just go for b3 or f4. I mean that appears to be his game plan right now anyways, so might as well try to get them in the vortex sooner rather then later.

I'll still use F21D2 just to keep the opponent guessing on what will happen or what will happen post block. But I do not see the point to go into blockstring pressure after a counter poke.

D'Vorah can be annoying. I was able to play Honeybee's D'vorah for hours this weekend in person. Learned a lot about the match up and that move is definitely annoying. You just need to not let D'Vorah be a bully and read how they like to follow up. I don't believe it to be at all an unfavorable match up at this point, but that poke is annoying I will admit.

As for the b32 and b34, I think the reward is the guessing game.... instead of just being punishable compared to the F4, you are given a pretty decent mix up tool you can use. You can usually run at the opponent after you guess right from a b321 or b34, and time another b3 to put them back into the situation. B3 is pretty good at stuffing most wake ups without armor. So you can get away with doing this.. At least it seems so, so far. ( not just against opponents who have no idea whats going on). Also, once you have someone conditioned to not waking up anymore and you are pressuring them with continuous B3 on their wake up, it actually makes way for the F4. Example, I score a knockdown, I run up and B34 the opponent. They attempt to normal wake up or they do nothing and get hit by the b34. So you get in on them again and they are usually expecting the b3 mix up again. So you can just smack em over the head with the F4 since they are expecting to block a B3 mix up.

 

[VR-Fist]

I find that for me, the main mixup is b3 xx soulball / f4 xx soulball. From there, I go JIP f21d2 JIK teleport f43 (or f4 for hard knockdown).

Would love to see other enders that would force opponent into a guessing situation.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

named MK_Chameleon but can´t adept

 

[zaf]

I find that for me, the main mixup is b3 xx soulball / f4 xx soulball. From there, I go JIP f21d2 JIK teleport f43 (or f4 for hard knockdown).

Would love to see other enders that would force opponent into a guessing situation.

If you want other enders, then end the combos with soul ball instead of starting with them
Go for F4 or b3 into teleport

From there you have options on how to continue the combo. Check the combo thread.
But basically you want to end in soul ball so that you can jump in B12
From here you get a free high low guess game

 

[Icy Black Deep]

Soulball is pretty unsafe on block though, right?
I'd been doing some fishing with f4 xx soulball but was pretty sure it was a bad idea to keep doing that.

I had been getting a lot of mileage out of b34/b32 mixups on wakeup, well mixup combined with stuffing wakeup attempts. But I've been away from the game for a week and I think during that time a lot of people have learned about delaying their wakeup, which I believe will make this tactic much less effective.

 

[zaf]

Soulball is pretty unsafe on block though, right?
I'd been doing some fishing with f4 xx soulball but was pretty sure it was a bad idea to keep doing that.

I had been getting a lot of mileage out of b34/b32 mixups on wakeup, well mixup combined with stuffing wakeup attempts. But I've been away from the game for a week and I think during that time a lot of people have learned about delaying their wakeup, which I believe will make this tactic much less effective.

Yea soulball is -22
ANything you are going to cancel into off of F4 is unsafe anyways, so just use teleport or soulball.

b34/b32 mix ups are still valid for wake up pressure
you just need to get used to the delayed and extended delay wake up timing and make the right read for stuffing wake ups.

 

[Matix218]

The mechanics of the game makes it so that canceling a normal into a special must be done immediately after the input of the first normal NOT after the hit after the input. Therefore hit confirming is impossible.

Um, no. You can hit confirm, just not every string was set up to be hit confirmable. Example, scorpions 214 you ABSOLUTELY can hit confirm into a teleport. And keep in mind I am talking offline. Online it is dependent on the quality of your connection and your opponents connection but offline you can hit confirm. Maybe the string you are using is not hit confirmable but that doesn't mean this game has no hit confirmable strings

 

[itzpookiie]

I don't think Ermacs B3 and F4 are hit confirmable

 

[CliffP]

@Hitoshura , this guy was condescending as fuck but I have to agree about the hitconfirming thing, it would take some lightning reaction time to confirm in that window, especially at tournament level, where I feel things move a lot faster. I can confirm easy with two hit moves for sure, that my brain can process. I want proof that you're doing this lol

I will say however, Ermac has a nice vortex but the best starter isn't a common occurrence. And even from the bortex, his 50/50 is unsafe which is pretty sucky.

His poke is good, but to that one guy I saw mention this, Ferra/Torr lackey outpokes it. (Tried over several games, I could get the d1 in sometimes but that poke pressure is really good. Of course you can just avoid poke range in matchups like that)

Ermac's reversal options are also shitty, teleports aren't good to throw out with any character. The Blast can be low profiled I believe. And you'd be silly to attempt a force lift unless you see the opponent pressing buttons.

Compared to other characters, Ermac's starter strings are lackluster. Come on fricking Kung Jin/Sonya/Erron/and others have BOTH high starters that go low and then full combo AND low starters that go high. This game is about max aggression with a hint of patience and Ermac's mid strings put less pressure on the opponent.

F34 is godlike though.

So regardless if OP is trolling, I see some validity in his statements. I'm personally gonna keep trying with Ermac but gonna invest in some easier characters as well.

 

[Northern Slasher]

I honestly never use the vortex. You need meter to keep it going, and its an unsafe 50/50... Where as I can get 42% without a JIP off of a F4 or B3 with 1 bar for guaranteed (well..breakable) damage..

 

[haketh]

Honestly it feels like B3 is confirmable, it's cancellable pretty late & when I was playing casuals against people during NWM I was able to confirm it pretty reliably. F4 is the fucking yolo train though.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Why does everyone assume that if your character has an overhead/low starter, that it needs to be a main part of how their character plays?

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

Why does everyone assume that if your character has an overhead/low starter, that it needs to be a main part of how their character plays?

because all our strings are minus on block? so why not go full hard or go home with f4/b3?
we cant zone. push -50 on block, lift -300 on block. soul ball -100 on block.

 

[haketh]

You can still zone in Mystic, you just have to be on point. I was doing my best against Brady, REO, & the others I played at NWM when I sat back, playe dpateint & pushed bad movement and mixed it up with a bit of going in & using the 50/50. Ermac is a very complete character you just have to play a bit on the careful side.

 

[zaf]

I honestly never use the vortex. You need meter to keep it going, and its an unsafe 50/50... Where as I can get 42% without a JIP off of a F4 or B3 with 1 bar for guaranteed (well..breakable) damage..

You can still get %37 from the vortex and if you guess right, another 37%.
So 72%. This can end a game quickly. I can imagine that this is what is people are leaning towards when they play this variation.
I am not saying you are wrong for just going for damage because it is not wrong.
There is no right way to play ermac. ( as of yet at least)

Honestly it feels like B3 is confirmable, it's cancellable pretty late & when I was playing casuals against people during NWM I was able to confirm it pretty reliably. F4 is the fucking yolo train though.

Yea I kinda feel the same about this. I feel like I have a lot of time for the teleport after the B3. But when it comes to F4, you are right. Full yolo.

Why does everyone assume that if your character has an overhead/low starter, that it needs to be a main part of how their character plays?

Well at least for master of souls, going for the overhead/low is pretty decent. The soul ball is a great set up tool for the vortex.
Also like I mentioned above in this post. It can take a lot of damage off and end a game real quick
The way I play for the most part, is I just try to play a midrange footsie game. When I land a hit, I go into kill mode and just try to kill them.
I feel like it is similar to SF4 akuma. He can play footsies but once he lands a knockdown, he puts you in vortex city.

 

[zaf]

You can still zone in Mystic, you just have to be on point. I was doing my best against Brady, REO, & the others I played at NWM when I sat back, playe dpateint & pushed bad movement and mixed it up with a bit of going in & using the 50/50. Ermac is a very complete character you just have to play a bit on the careful side.

I think over the weekend I will need to play more mystic and just play as patient and lame as possible.
TKP just is not what it used to be and it is not very appealing to me right now TBH. But I should definitely give it some more time.
I actually really want to get into spectral but I need to wait for the fix.

 

[haketh]

I think over the weekend I will need to play more mystic and just play as patient and lame as possible.
TKP just is not what it used to be and it is not very appealing to me right now TBH. But I should definitely give it some more time.
I actually really want to get into spectral but I need to wait for the fix.

Yeah I think theirs a ton of MU potential for Spectral, like what is someone like Jacqui or Kano going to do about you getting a lifelead then flying & playing defensive?

 

[Youphemism]

Yeah I think theirs a ton of MU potential for Spectral, like what is someone like Jacqui or Kano going to do about you getting a lifelead then flying & playing defensive?

Well if Jacqui's in Full Auto you're getting up rocketed and Kano's going to up ball you lol.

 

[haketh]

Well if Jacqui's in Full Auto you're getting up rocketed and Kano's going to up ball you lol.

Upball is a worry but only at certain ranges & your reward for calling it out is much higher than his is for hitting it. Up Rockets are pretty damn slow & Teleport bait.

 

[Youphemism]

Upball is a worry but only at certain ranges & your reward for calling it out is much higher than his is for hitting it. Up Rockets are pretty damn slow & Teleport bait.

Right, but the point is Upball is still a worry in the situation where you're flying where you can't block it. And Up Rockets are slow? You mental? Lol they're 12 frames!

 

[haketh]

Right, but the point is Upball is still a worry in the situation where you're flying where you can't block it. And Up Rockets are slow? You mental? Lol they're 12 frames!

They're 12 frames & have travel time plus why are you staying in that range where it's not a superb threat. Also not all variations have the up rocket

 

[Metzos]

@Hitoshura , this guy was condescending as fuck but I have to agree about the hitconfirming thing, it would take some lightning reaction time to confirm in that window, especially at tournament level, where I feel things move a lot faster. I can confirm easy with two hit moves for sure, that my brain can process. I want proof that you're doing this lol

I will say however, Ermac has a nice vortex but the best starter isn't a common occurrence. And even from the bortex, his 50/50 is unsafe which is pretty sucky.

His poke is good, but to that one guy I saw mention this, Ferra/Torr lackey outpokes it. (Tried over several games, I could get the d1 in sometimes but that poke pressure is really good. Of course you can just avoid poke range in matchups like that)

Ermac's reversal options are also shitty, teleports aren't good to throw out with any character. The Blast can be low profiled I believe. And you'd be silly to attempt a force lift unless you see the opponent pressing buttons.

Compared to other characters, Ermac's starter strings are lackluster. Come on fricking Kung Jin/Sonya/Erron/and others have BOTH high starters that go low and then full combo AND low starters that go high. This game is about max aggression with a hint of patience and Ermac's mid strings put less pressure on the opponent.

F34 is godlike though.

So regardless if OP is trolling, I see some validity in his statements. I'm personally gonna keep trying with Ermac but gonna invest in some easier characters as well.

F34 is interruptible with armor. His strings suck in general. You are either at minus on block or you get blown up by armored moves.

 

[Metzos]

You can still zone in Mystic, you just have to be on point. I was doing my best against Brady, REO, & the others I played at NWM when I sat back, playe dpateint & pushed bad movement and mixed it up with a bit of going in & using the 50/50. Ermac is a very complete character you just have to play a bit on the careful side.

Which characters and which variations they used? If Tom used grandmaster SZ and Reo used spec ops cassie, then yeah mystic Ermac does well against them because he can check them. They dont have the necessary tools to apply a lot of pressure on him. Although SZ can punish the tkp on block with rcxxslide and Cassie can punish it with rcxxb1, but the particular character variations dont do a lot of dmg to worry mystic Ermac that much. They rely on setups.

Try playing mystic against a Scorpion, QC, Hollywood Cassie, TG Raiden etc and you ll see why mystic sucks atm.

 

[Tokiwartoothxdk]

F34 is interruptible with armor. His strings suck in general. You are either at minus on block or you get blown up by armored moves.

If the armored moved isnt instant, doesnt the 4 in F34 knock them out of it because of its multi hits?

 

[BoromiRofGeo]

If the armored moved isnt instant, doesnt the 4 in F34 knock them out of it because of its multi hits?

it's too slow, hard to time with enemy's armor. it's not like it's takeda's 10 frame f3.