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General/Other - Shinnok Shinnok General Discussion Thread

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
It's counterproductive to use it now. It is slow, so string like f224~exAS will have gap, while f224~HSmb not. It's less advantageous on block than HSmb, less total damage, less chip, less meter gained on block. If you train your opponent that you can MB it any time you can get away with non MB HS sometimes. Plus some opponents can be impatient and release block earlier or try to advance on last HS before MB.
*Edit: Forgot that you can combo of exAS in the corner, you can combo with HSmb too, if you MB first spark. IDK about damage diffirence.
Damage difference is actually very significant as EX amulet grants you more damage overall and doesn't scale bad in the corner, but that's about the only time I'd use it.

3,1,2 xx EX Amulet, d1, 1,1,2 xx Summoned Fiend in Necromancer, or Amulet/Hellspark/Shoulder/ender of your choice. In Necro he can EX Summoned fiend and follow up with a njp and doing d1, 1,1,2 xx shoulder for 46% 2 bars of meter.
 
Reactions: SPY
Guys i am on pc so unfortunetely patch didnt come yet...do u think shinnok necromancer is worth playing after patch,i really love his skeletal hands i wanna try him after patch?
 

Euph0nic

Purple Glowy Stuff
i came here to see how impostors are implementing ji2du. i don't know why, but it feels like cheating. there's gotta be a very powerful use for this
 

SPY

Noob
i came here to see how impostors are implementing ji2du. i don't know why, but it feels like cheating. there's gotta be a very powerful use for this
No one use this as a combo starter or even mix up at competitive level. First, on block it reactable and easily punishable. Second, if you think you'll hit - then just jip into hit confirmable string or if you think they will try AA you - teleport before reaching them for a wiff punish.
You can use it as swaggy combo starter or HSmb combo filler, but Imposter Shinnok have more reliable options.
 

Euph0nic

Purple Glowy Stuff
Yeah, i actually dont use it for starting combos either, i'm just maybe trying to scare up if anybody has an unorthodox utility for it. I'm using a nice stick and a fast PC, my instants are instant sometimes, so i just fill my quota of 4 grabs per match.
 

G-Ram

Noob
Hey all, using impostor shinnok and I've been having a real hard time with raiden and his pressure. Anyone have any tips on the match up?
 

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
Hey all, using impostor shinnok and I've been having a real hard time with raiden and his pressure. Anyone have any tips on the match up?
I hate to say this but it's probably one of his worst matchups by far. There's really not much I can help you with sadly. f12 is beast for Raiden and you have to hold it, and if we're talking Thunder God which I assume we are then he can do the electric followup if you backdash and hit you anyway, not to mention it's safe. Raiden is likely to get nerfed anyway so just wait for a patch, and wait for the special cancel OS to get removed. This matchup sucks, so I know your pain. Played against a Raiden in a set and lost about 20 or so games and won only three because he could never get anything started.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
I hate to say this but it's probably one of his worst matchups by far. There's really not much I can help you with sadly. f12 is beast for Raiden and you have to hold it, and if we're talking Thunder God which I assume we are then he can do the electric followup if you backdash and hit you anyway, not to mention it's safe. Raiden is likely to get nerfed anyway so just wait for a patch, and wait for the special cancel OS to get removed. This matchup sucks, so I know your pain. Played against a Raiden in a set and lost about 20 or so games and won only three because he could never get anything started.
We don't have to hold F12 into F12, F4 is 7 frames...
 

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
Why? D1 is 6 frame start up. How the hell is a 7f move going to blow it up if a 6f move can't?
Or how about this

You try to show me a video of you punishing f1,2 on block

Because right now I do not believe you at all. That move not only advances Raiden but can make him safe, and F4 does not advance Shinnok THAT far to begin with.
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Or how about this

You try to show me a video of you punishing f1,2 on block

Because right now I do not believe you at all. That move not only advances Raiden but can make him safe, and F4 does not advance Shinnok THAT far to begin with.
I've just done it a bunch of times, you're probably mistiming it. I have a video but I want you to test it yourself first.
 

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
f12 is safe on block. He means if Raiden goes to do another f12, you can interrupt it with f4/d1/etc.
See I feel this is inconsistent because for one yes, if he goes for it again you can stuff it, but he's stuttering it, like a smart player would. He's not just constantly going f12, f12 etc... We're talking about smart play. He'll walk back and forth, see you go for something etc.

He'll mix it up with the electricity follow up as well. All of which spaces him out to where he's safe.

Regardless, Raiden players think F12 is a bit OD anyway, and I would not be surprised to see it get changed to a high for the first hit if it stays that way.

But that doesn't change the fact the matchup still really sucks for him simply due to the damage/mixup/corner positioning he can do.

Anyway, anyone notice now that apparently 3,1,2 has been changed from 3 being a low to a mid?
 

Devin Thorn

chimp damage
Hey, hope I'm not in the wrong thread to ask this but what's the best way to get in on a shinnok zoning hard with hell sparks and also throwing out his shoulder rush and tele along side b3 and d3 a lot? While I'd love to call it spam it's just the tools he has and I didn't know that MU so any advice? Basically if I ran in or tried to armor through hell sparks (using lackey F/T) he would either teleport, shoulder rush me out of my dash, or us his impostor move
 

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
3 was never a low
Odd, I swore before the patch it was when I used it.

Regardless, we have an actual low combo starter so it's not that big of a deal.

Also, does anyone have any tips on how to deal with Hellfire Scorpion right now? I am absolutely getting mauled by them. I feel like I cannot make one bad read at all.

I even tried to d2 his jik3 on reaction and he hit me clean and went straight into teleport. I know that his 2,1,4 string is safe and then he goes into fireball cancel twice before he has to make a decision but what do you really do against this character?
 

Euph0nic

Purple Glowy Stuff
hellfire scorp[...]I even tried to d2 his jik3 on reaction and he hit me clean and went straight into teleport. I know that his 2,1,4 string is safe and then he goes into fireball cancel twice before he has to make a decision but what do you really do against this character?
This. So much this. I have been d2'ing 75% of all jumpins for 2 fucking decades. It's asymmetrical, broken, invincible free combo and every other cast members gets a fuckin toasty ride accross the screen.
 

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
This. So much this. I have been d2'ing 75% of all jumpins for 2 fucking decades. It's asymmetrical, broken, invincible free combo and every other cast members gets a fuckin toasty ride accross the screen.
I feel your pain man. the worst part is, the guy playing it was only playing him (He was a Bojutsu Kung Jin main) because he feels Hellfire Scorp is broken and when he gets patched? He'll move on to what he feels is the next OP/broken character.

No different than Sonic in that sense but it did make me feel like I don't get rewarded for not playing a brain dead ass character. I even teched all but two grabs during our set and he had the nerve to say he outplayed me when I'm the one counterpoking his shit, and he gets all this meter while I get half a bar because he gets to do all of this shit.
 

Euph0nic

Purple Glowy Stuff
I feel your pain man. the worst part is, the guy playing it was only playing him (He was a Bojutsu Kung Jin main) because he feels Hellfire Scorp is broken and when he gets patched? He'll move on to what he feels is the next OP/broken character.
Yeah I can make an immediate judgement about people that need every advantage in existence before they compete, unfortunately these folks exist. Give that fool a nidhogg runback!
 

xSMoKEx

Coward Character User
Honestly haven't played the game in awhile, just checking around and asking because everyone seems to be using Imposter. While mimicry is a BIG deal (damage buff, easy way to set up overhead and make it more of a "true" mix-up), along with the teleport utility, how the hell are you guys playing footsies?

I mean, he literally has nothing to space you out. F4 (old b3 is minus, F2/F22 is minus, honestly quite slow (17f), has a lot of recovery and can be low profiled (compared to someone like Cassie, D'Vorah, Kotal and their mids) ...

Bone-Shaper has that nice F41 with hella range, pushback and -4 on block (and also makes all 3 hits of orbs land regardless of spacing, which may prove to be useful in the future as we incorporate mb / no mb orbs). F4 on its own is -7 and i labbed it up, its quite easy to punish with a D1 with just a bit of practice, so unless you're going to commit to burning a bar EVERY time so make it +, what are you guys doing? Not to mention, F4 on it's own does not make all 3 orbs land unless spaced properly. What this means it that because the third orb whiffs you would be doing the mb/ no mb orb mix-up on the 2nd orb, which makes it significantly easier to punish on reaction due to distance than on the 3rd orb. (Kind of difficult to explain this, if you don't understand what i'm saying i will edit and clarify).

If you cannot space well, counterpoke with F4 safely, what are you guys doing to remain fundamentally sound? Realistically you can only rely on lucky hits + teleports for so long, you need a stable ground game to be consistent; and that overhead isn't exactly to land in the neutral game, nor is it safe or option-selectable. So with an unsafe low (unless you spend meter), an average at best mid (f2), and an unsafe and slow overhead, how are you guys making out in the neutral game? I ask because I haven't messed around with it that much, due to these reasons (and I don't have the patch STILL so i can't even mess around with it).
 
Am I crazy, or do we not have a Shinnok matchups thread? I see one for character specific mimicry combos, but that's about it.

On a related note, is Mileena a terrible matchup for Impostor, or am I just overlooking something? I swear the ball just went through Hell Sparks, and her teleport basically shoots Shinnok's out of the air, and he doesn't really have much of a way to keep up with her once she gets in close.
 
I don't know about the mu number, but I only stand block when mileena has meter, and try to react and punish any mistakes the other player makes, d3 to the f4 can catch people off guard if they're not blocking. only use sparks in combos, build your own meter and unleash hell with the vortex. mileena's can be a bit heavy on wakeup so sometimes just waiting them out is the best option. doing nothing is always a great option lol. but just keeping optimal range (in that f4 range) and d1/3ing my way out of trouble. The teleport I only ever use in situations where i've set it up and i'm trying to bait out a wakeup move, or if i predict some projectiles. The risk/reward with teleport cause Mileena can convert for close to full damage off of an aa. (much worse than a teleport kick.)

I'm not really known or anything but I seem to pull off a 75% win rate (admittedly it has gone down a bit since the patch.) although online can feel like playing like mud (as shinnok especially as I try to play him very reactionary) I feel like I do much better offline with the character. Maybe a bit long winded @ShintaroNayaka
 

Euph0nic

Purple Glowy Stuff
... is Mileena a terrible matchup for Impostor, or am I just overlooking something? I swear the ball just went through Hell Sparks, and her teleport basically shoots Shinnok's out of the air, and he doesn't really have much of a way to keep up with her once she gets in close.
I'm on PC so mileena is still broken as fack but i noticed the matchup feeling a little grimy, im a little scared when the patch comes. lol trip out, im still able to punish dive kick on hit.

Shinnoks strings are loose and drop even when executed fairly tight. especially njp2/tap2, i follow with 112xx or 22xx and never get consistent enders. Soo, thats a roll and a punish.