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Official UMK3:TE Changelog and Discussion Thread

Slips

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
AK Juggs said:
How does limiting smoke to 2 specials make him more unique? It makes him more boring, and if Scorpion continues to get buffed and Smoked nerfed, the exact same thing will happen but reversed. No one will want to play Smoke anymore, for the same reasons. If you're going to take away an option, give him another one to make him more "unique". Taking away options on top of nerfs doesn't make sense unless you give him something else to make up for it. The goal is to make every character balanced, let's not lose sight of that.



Exactly my point, and Smokes air throw isn't what makes him more effective in UMK3's meta than Scorpion. The both share the same specials, air throw, spear, teleport. What good is removing the air throw when they both still share the spear and teleport?

Taking away options and limiting a character on top of nerfs already applied doesn't make sense unless those nerfs weren't enough. Even then, removing an option unless it's broken beyond repair simply doesn't make sense. The exception of course is when 2 characters are very similar, and in this case, have the same specials. You'd then take away one or more of one of the characters specials, while giving him new ones. Not create the same problem over again.



Right, so how does removing the airthrow from Smoke alleviate this problem?
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This was the long version of saying you don't trust they'll be able to make H. Smoke balanced if they take away his air throw. Nobody wants to see Scorpion become the new H. Smoke, and nobody wants H. Smoke to still overshadow Scorpion. Your opinion has been heard. Show some faith. It sounds like H. Smoke will always have his damage and thats a big plus. Ermac does big damage too without an airthrow and he still managed to do fine in the tier charts.

We'll just have to wait and see.
 
dreemernj

dreemernj

Ambassador
AK Juggs said:
How does limiting smoke to 2 specials make him more unique? It makes him more boring, and if Scorpion continues to get buffed and Smoked nerfed, the exact same thing will happen but reversed. No one will want to play Smoke anymore, for the same reasons. If you're going to take away an option, give him another one to make him more "unique". Taking away options on top of nerfs doesn't make sense unless you give him something else to make up for it. The goal is to make every character balanced, let's not lose sight of that.

Exactly my point, and Smokes air throw isn't what makes him more effective in UMK3's meta than Scorpion. The both share the same specials, air throw, spear, teleport. What good is removing the air throw when they both still share the spear and teleport?

Taking away options and limiting a character on top of nerfs already applied doesn't make sense unless those nerfs weren't enough. Even then, removing an option unless it's broken beyond repair simply doesn't make sense. The exception of course is when 2 characters are very similar, and in this case, have the same specials. You'd then take away one or more of one of the characters specials, while giving him new ones. Not create the same problem over again.

Right, so how does removing the airthrow from Smoke alleviate this problem?
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I think it does make him more unique, which I consider a good thing, but I also agree that, since it isn't a big part of what makes him powerful, it doesn't seem worthwhile to remove it. I wouldn't argue with the Hacker too much because for all I know, with the other changes, taking away his air throw has a big and positive impact. I just don't see how it could.

I will say this though, different characters have different signature aspects that I have grown accustomed to and for H. Smoke, it's the combo options. I don't want his combos to be nerfed much. I'd rather they stay potent and caution-inspiring. To keep them feeling right, I think he needs the teleport and spear and walking speed. I see the potential removal of his air throw as a way to shave a bit of damage off his air combos that doesn't change the impact of the rest of the combos. I kind of like that. And I think it is a side benefit that it differentiates him from Scorpion a little.

I think the impact of the air throw being there or not is relatively small, but combined with all the other changes, I think it could work to remove it. He'll be down to 2 specials but he'll still have a ton of options compared to the rest of the roster.


Offtopic: Yep really me. I couldn't stay away. This shit is too good. The modifications already made are astounding. It makes me want to play again.
 
Konqrr

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
AK Juggs said:
How does limiting smoke to 2 specials make him more unique? It makes him more boring, and if Scorpion continues to get buffed and Smoked nerfed, the exact same thing will happen but reversed. No one will want to play Smoke anymore, for the same reasons. If you're going to take away an option, give him another one to make him more "unique". Taking away options on top of nerfs doesn't make sense unless you give him something else to make up for it. The goal is to make every character balanced, let's not lose sight of that.
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Remember when @R.E.O. won a tournament using Noob with NO specials?

BustaUppa said:
omg, attacks during Sindel's flight? Can't wait to see that in action. Love seeing some Sindel buffs. :D
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It's in the third video of @Shock's recent stream on the third post of the first page.
 
tank u-gin

tank u-gin

Noob
dubson said:
I don't think i have any UMK3 vids of me up right now but I used to have some from footage recorded.

I watched you play for about 10 minutes, and that was long enough to determine your OK but not near as good as you claim.

I'll play you for money, online…. LMK. Normally I wouldn't like to play for real $$ online. But with the claims you made…. No Problem. Record it too.
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Hi, umk_p1 is mafioso - he is the best Russian player right now. Trust me he know game very very deep, he playing a lot of charachters. So trust me please, if he asking something or telling something about umk3, he know what he talking about. He training hard for years, he know this game very very deep. He can make a lot of infinities, he know a lot about glitchjabs and more of this stuff. And I was in USA few times and played against shock, reo, cd, no doubt, chris g, summoning, and other guys. All what i can say - mafioso is better than many of this guys. Because i played against both, and i know what i'm talking about. And mafioso is very good person. He is my good friend. Why you so agressive, bro? Please let's speak easy. Mafioso is very good player.
And also what i can see - is what a lot of players who din't played well in umk3, talking about balancing more than good players..
MFA-2014. GF: Natcu (p1) vs Mafioso (p2) Set-2
 
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GetSpookd

GetSpookd

#1 Enemy : Rust.
tank u-gin said:
Hi, umk_p1 is mafioso - he is best Russian player right now. Trust me he know game very very deep, he playing a lot charachters. So trust me please, if he asking something or telling something to fix, he know what he talking about. He training hard for years, he know this game very very deep. He can make lot of infinities, he know a lot about glitchjabs and more of this stuff. And I was in USA few times and played against shock, reo, cd, no doubt, chris g, summoning, and other guys. All what i can say - mafioso is better than many of this guys. Because i played against both, and i know what i'm talking about. And mafioso is very good person. He is my good friend. Why you so agressive, bro? Please let's speak easy. Mafioso is very good player.
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Altho you're being friendly, and I understand your motives for writing your post. Please, lets end that discussion and leave it for PM's and such. This is not a place for this.
 
tank u-gin

tank u-gin

Noob
GetSpookd said:
Altho you're being friendly, and I understand your motives for writing your post. Please, lets end that discussion and leave it for PM's and such. This is not a place for this.
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Yes i agree. I just wanted you all to know who is umk_p1, and maybe it's helps to hear his words more attentive. Russian community is agree with his opinion. And me too. Thank you guys. Hope u understand
 
dubson

dubson

Noob
tank u-gin said:
Hi, umk_p1 is mafioso - he is the best Russian player right now. Trust me he know game very very deep, he playing a lot of charachters. So trust me please, if he asking something or telling something about umk3, he know what he talking about. He training hard for years, he know this game very very deep. He can make a lot of infinities, he know a lot about glitchjabs and more of this stuff. And I was in USA few times and played against shock, reo, cd, no doubt, chris g, summoning, and other guys. All what i can say - mafioso is better than many of this guys. Because i played against both, and i know what i'm talking about. And mafioso is very good person. He is my good friend. Why you so agressive, bro? Please let's speak easy. Mafioso is very good player.
And also what i can see - is what a lot of players who din't played well in umk3, talking about balancing more than good players..
MFA-2014. GF: Natcu (p1) vs Mafioso (p2) Set-2
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It's not a big deal. He hadn't heard of me, I hadn't heard of him. We were both thinking the same thing: how credible are these people defending or complaining about the changes. He Did come at me, but it's all good.

Konqrr, mods/staff and the kommunity wants this thread to stay on topic as much as possible and I respect him and that very much. Discussing this stuff with the "hack" and well being of the game in mind is fine, but he doesn't want people calling out people's skill or challenging people in this thread anymore. I usually end up taking the heat too.

I have messed up a few times already in this thread and am trying to voice my opinion at the same time. I understand it can be a fine line and feathers will get ruffled by others opinions. Especially with a character like H Smoke, for reasons 9.95 already said... That is fine but let's try our best to keep it civil please.

My apologies to the thread/forum for being too intense at times, coming of as cocky, calling people out, and not being more mature. I understand it was a lot me and I take responsibility for that. Sorry again. I am just super excited for this...
 
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dubson

dubson

Noob
tank u-gin said:
Yes i agree. I just wanted you all to know who is umk_p1, and maybe it's helps to hear his words more attentive. Russian community is agree with his opinion. And me too. Thank you guys. Hope u understand
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Thanks, your right. I'm not going to get into who I think is better than who but thanks for vouching for him. His opinion Should count and be heard, just like anyone else. His opinion is just more credible now. It's nice to have that, though.

It's nice to hear the opinions of the Russian UMK3 Kommunity!
 
Konqrr

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
DWednesday said:
Any news on whether he'll be getting any?

I think KL's teleport motion, into an air throw animation would be sick (similar to his MKT special, just not as broken) if it could be done.
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MKT moves are planned, but existing graphics have to be used as the hacker doesn't know how to import and use new graphics.
 
DWednesday

DWednesday

Undisputed #1 ScrubBot Worldwide.
Konqrr said:
MKT moves are planned, but existing graphics have to be used as the hacker doesn't know how to import and use new graphics.
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Victory pose as the tp, into m.ninja air throw? Those animations are all in the game. Of course, I know zero about hacking games, so I'm probably undercomplicating things... :/
 
umk_p1

umk_p1

Noob
Konqrr said:
MKT moves are planned, but existing graphics have to be used as the hacker doesn't know how to import and use new graphics.
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you mentioned graphics and HD hack(let's call it so) came in my mind, few years ago there were some videos of umk3 scorpion in super sharp and fluid sprite... i wish we could implement someday those kind of graphics into hack as well.

ps: did that project die out?
 
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dreemernj

dreemernj

Ambassador
umk_p1 said:
you mentioned graphics and HD hack(let's call it so) came in my mind, few years ago there were some videos of umk3 scorpion in super sharp and fluid sprite... i wish we could implement someday those kind of graphics into hack as well.

ps: did that project die out?
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they are the ones that for a cease and desist letter I think.
 
Shock

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
Yeah guys, please stick to suggestions, concerns, modifications and reviews of footage seen pretty much. The whole theory fighter thing boosts the number of posts, but it really has no place until we can actually get a playable version out to see for sure.
 
BustaUppa

BustaUppa

Westbury Nathan's 4 Life
Konqrr said:
MKT moves are planned, but existing graphics have to be used as the hacker doesn't know how to import and use new graphics.
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That's fine, neither did Midway back in 1996 ;)

In all seriousness, were there any new frames for MK3 characters in MKT? I'm thinking that the only missing assets for recreating MKT moves would be things like Noob's projectile, and I guess some finisher graphics here and there. Am I missing anything?
 
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umk_p1

umk_p1

Noob
-shang tsung needs faster morphs
-sonya's fireball needs a bit faster recovery (3-4 frames mb)
-kano's knife upper needs a bit faster recovery
-robots need faster startup on roundhouse to make it at least usable as antiair and not just a finisher after net/TP/harpoon when opponent's lifebar on danger
-think about KL teleport cancellable to dive kick, sounds nice, even if it would rise him too high in ranking we still can reduce damage
-liu kang bike kick faster recovery on block
-nightwolf faster recovery on reflection on whiff if i can say so
- stryker grenades faster recovery, now they are unusable in mid/close range
- scorpion forward TP. Overall damage balance, seems to me he is getting to powerfull if he get TP.
- scorp/ermac/h.smoke faster recovery on blocked TP (3-4 frames)
- mileena faster recovery on blocked TeleKick

i'm not 100% sure this changes being absolute necessery, this is just what comes in my mind, needs a lot testing, but i'd tend to make the game faster and less damaging/longer lasting overall
 
Slips

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
Since we are talking so much about H. Smoke and 'what can you do to make him different from Scorp', it's not hard. Even though they have the same moves you can make slight variants. That's what they did with Ryu and Ken.

Some ideas:
-Make TP give him him more frames to allow a safe jump
-Give him 2 different TP's. One with HP where it acts as it normally does, one with LP where it travels less distance (think MK2 Scorp)
-Maybe give him a combo that has 4 hits that end in a pop up, giving him additional pressure and offense. Or maybe make his 3 hit combo easier to do, can be a pain in the ass sometimes you have to input it so fast.
-Change the input for his spear to be a df motion instead of b,b.
-Throw has better recovery allowing pressure and wake-up oppurtunities.
-Speed up his roundhouse make it easier to AA with. (not that it was hard to begin with)

Again, these are just random ideas. But goes to show a fighting game is a universe in which the designer determines the laws of physics and how each character lives in it. You can do anything to help make up for the losses and nerfs he'll receive for being so dumb in UMK3. :p
 
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