Official UMK3:TE Changelog and Discussion Thread

[dubson]

For the record, I don't care where Kabal and H Smoke land on the tier list… just as long as they aren't OP, in a tier of their own above everyone else, and the rest of the cast actually stand a chance against them. I don't care who the best character in the game is, I have no bias, I play every character in the game and competitively. Just as long as that character is not OP, broken or in a tier of his/her own.

But if people like Shock are saying that they don't mind "this" being gone, or "this" nerf being done, or this "buff" being done, there is something to that, and if you aren't a tournament level player, you should probably just stand down when debating with one or at least acknowledge that your speaking on a casual level. This game has been out for over 15 years. Things that need to be addressed are known by who they need to be known by.

 

[dubson]

@AK Juggs , you may claim to not main H Smoke, but he is your go to character in tournament play (making him your main), and he is your best character and he always has been. That needed to be put out there. I understand you play every character competitively, but this needed to be put out there. You love Sheeva, but lets be real. She stands ZERO chance against Kabal and H Smoke. Even played to perfection, the cards are so stacked against her its not even funny.

How awesome would it be, if she did stand a chance? In Tournament play?!?

This is what I hope we are trying to achieve with UMK3TE, to a certain degree.

 

[Juggs]

@AK Juggs , you may claim to not main H Smoke, but he is your go to character in tournament play (making him your main), and he is your best character and he always has been. That needed to be put out there. I understand you play every character competitively, but this needed to be put out there. You love Sheeva, but lets be real. She stands ZERO chance against Kabal and H Smoke. Even played to perfection, the cards are so stacked against her its not even funny.

How awesome would it be, if she did? In Tournament play?!?

This is what I hope we are trying to achieve with UMK3TE, to a certain degree.

Of course he is my go to character, he's broken and easy to win with. He's my best character because he's one of the best characters. In fact, I'd rather him be nerfed so that I didn't have to use him anymore, and could use someone else in tournament. The only time I personally use his airthrow, is for the slight damage it gives after a combo. I don't even do OS instant airthrows, or use them hardly at all outside of combos. Which is one of my points, he doesn't need it to win, it's not a reason he's one of the best, so why remove it? It's funny, because you used that exact line to justify it being removed, which is backwards. Most special moves in this game are useless, and certainly most characters don't need them to win. So because they don't need them, we should just take that option away instead of buffing/nerfing it? Or at the very least somehow replacing it? That is counter productive, solves nothing, and doesn't even address the problem.

Sektor doesn't need his straight missile to win. Cryax doesn't need his teleport to win. Kitana doesn't need her fan lift to win. Reptile doesn't need his slide to win. Sonya doesn't need her projectile to win. Jax doesn't need his ground pound to win. Jade doesn't need her boomerangs to win. Nightwolf doesn't need his reflect or his arrow to win. Scorpion doesn't need his spear to win. Kano doesn't need his choke a bitch to win. Mileena doesn't need her teleport to win. Ermac doesn't need his fireball to win. C.Sub doesn't need his slide to win. U.Sub doesn't need his slide to win. Stryker doesn't need his bombs to win. Liu Kang doesn't need his flying kick to win. Sindel doesn't need her fireball to win. Kabal doesn't need his Buzz Saw to win. Sheeva doesn't need her telestomp to win. Shang doesn't need to morph to win. R.Smoke doesn't need his teleport to win. H.Smoke doesn't need his airthrow to win.

So, should we remove all of these specials, further limiting the already severely limited game? Or should we buff/nerf the ones that need them? The only special move in UMK3 that is broken and I could understand being removed is the invisibility that Reptile and R.Smoke share. And even then, I'd much rather it be nerfed, than just taken out.

Here's my final thoughts on HSmoke, and the hack in general:

I feel like, going into MK2, and the creation of UMK2TE, that the hacker felt a sense of responsibility toward the MK2 commuity(and overall MKC) to balance MK2 as best as possible but still remain MK2 at it's core.

It's not that I don't want to see "Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 Super Exciting New Versions Of Old Characters Edition"(a version where characters are completely changed,instead of just buffed or nerfed)...I very much do, and I can't wait to try it and maybe it'll become the best version of UMK3 to date. Before that, however, if ther hacker has the same sense of responsibility toward UMK3 as he did toward MK2, then I think the responsible thing to do first, is to create a balanced version with a few new things (Scorp's changes in UMK3 so far remind me of Raiden's in UMK2TE, which is a good thing...essentially all the changes thus far have been in the right direction) to make lower tier characters viable, OP tiers nerfed for balance and GJ's removed. I think all in all, we need something that is still UMK3 at it's core... then UMK3SENVOOCE would be even better because we'd have 2 unique hacks of the game to play.

Also, pretty much all of this. This doesn't have to be complicated, like, at all.

 

[DWednesday]

How about we just take H. Smoke's air throw and give it to Sheeva?

Problem solved.
Hack balanced.

 

[GetSpookd]

You really don't get it and this is my last post to you regarding H Smoke's air throw.

Yes, I do get it, I'm just stating my point of view.

It's like your just arguing to argue now or you don't know what your even defending.

I'm not arguing, I'd say I'm commenting your posts while stating my opinion on the topic.
Tho I can't deny, that I like the thought of irritating a pooper injured about H Smoke person in the process. :^)

So the air throw isn't what makes him broken,. so he should have it?

Yes? Things that make him broken, are the ones he shouldn't have, or in this case, they should be nerfed/balanced.

Smoke is broken in this game. He doesn't Need it therefore he shouldn't Have it (Vanilla).

Kabal Buzz saw was almost pointless in UMK3, almost nobody used it in a serious game (at least thats what I've noticed in many UMK3 tournaments videos), does that mean he shouldn't have it?

Why should he even have the option of being able to do it or have opponents fear it from him?

Yeah, because air throw is such a dangerous and option making move to begin with.

It's about options, and the cast also. Not just how many special moves character X has, and this game does not revolve around H Smoke, it revolves around over 20 others as well.

Exactly, and because all the other chars are going to be buffed/nerfed/balanced/sex changed, he is still going to be nerfed, thus making him more on the same level as all the others, theres no need to remove a move.

People who want to play with a broken H Smoke who shits on pretty much the entire cast except one character can stick to Vanilla, plain and simple, and can leave this "hack" alone. But tournament level players are tired of it and want change, and it ultimately led to this game's demise and shorter life than it potentially could have been.

That sounds like some tough H Smoke PTSD right there. I don't want to play with broken chars, thats why I agree with nerfing him to the point he wont be as broken as anybody says. I've said it like 5th times, I just don't see air throw being removed as a good way to do this, and as it seems, I'm not alone on that.

Either you will reply to me or not, at the end of it, its just how I see it. No hard feelings bro.

How about we just take H. Smoke's air throw and give it to Sheeva?

Problem solved.
Hack balanced.

God damn you, I was going to say something along these lines.

The bottom line, remove H Smoke :V

 

[dubson]

Snip

Your right about why you use H Smoke , and that he is your best because he is one of the best, but you also prefer teleporters as just your play style preference, so it isn't the only reason, since you love Ermac almost as equally, but prefer H Smoke for obvious reasons in tournament play.

H Smoke for obvious reasons is going to be 99% of everyone's best character, inherently just based off of how powerful he is in this game and compared to the rest of the kast. Just wanted to throw that out there too. He is probably my one of if not my best character too. It's hard for him Not to be one's best character. He is simply so powerful.

You don't see it either and are going down the road 9.95 did, and spooked. It isn't about the move itself factoring into making him broken. Why should he even have the Option of doing it or fearing opponents into altering their game play if he doesn't need it??? That is the true question!!! You also can't compare characters like Kabal and H Smoke in this game to characters like Kitana not needing her fan lift or Nightwolf not needing his reflector shield. It simply isn't a fair comparison, or logical. These characters are not OP. They are not God Tier. They are not even close to Broken. They do not need moves taken away…. or maybe they do, pointless moves can be removed and pointless moves made better, maybe even at the cost of a move. I don't see the big deal with either one. Im all for the Better Game.

Just because YOU don't use it doesn't mean other Top H Smoke players don't! Its also about how the opponent has to play him! Not just how your affected by losing it even tho, you don't use it! Random player you face at a tournament may not know that and still has to play out of fear of it.

This version of H Smoke in UMK3 with all his easy huge damage combos, punishers and damage potential at any given time in general, simply does not need it , therefore he shouldn't ever be able to Do it, or change how people play him out of fear of it! I'm sure this UMK3TE H Smoke will still be powerful enough without it and 99% likely top tier without it!! Its all about OPTIONS!

 

[STRYKIE]

Maybe keep the air throw, but please make Smoke give the axes back to Scorpion at least.

I actually did think about suggesting that as I typed it, the problem is whether or not there's a 'yellow' male ninja sprite for that popup in the data. It could be since Scorpion was the base for male ninjas during sprite capture, but if not, I'm not 100% sure if it can be recolored within the confines of the source code that the hacker has access to.

With this being said, I sometimes wonder if Scorpion was originally supposed to have H.Smoke's bells and whistles but was gimped on purpose and given to H.Smoke to promote arcade traffic. I don't think faster walkspeed would've been enough to suck any quarters out of wallets lol.

 

[umk_p1]

this h.smoke airthrow talks starts to remind me THE JAB thread and still im gonna say "step up"
h.smoke's overpoweredness consists of damageoutput only, deal with it! Just like every OP char in every FG - damage is your only factor that drains the healthbar, everything else is bullshit.
I don't know how u are debating about fighting game and take the most important thing out of consideration, h.smoke can have triple airthrows one comboing into another but it won't matter if damage is low, who cares?
let characters be diverse and unusual, just balance the damage. Sometimes i start to doubt are u the OG umk players good enough when u say something radical. Dubson, do you have any match videos? no offense, i like your passion and overall knowledge, but i think you overestimate h.smoke, let him live.
ps: to prevent questions, probably i'm og player myself, can't claim for sure i dont't even feel need in it. I started with genesis umk in 1999, switched fully in 2007 to mame, have won some tournaments to be condfinedt in my mk skills

 

[BustaUppa]

I actually did think about suggesting that as I typed it, the problem is whether or not there's a 'yellow' male ninja sprite for that popup in the data. It could be since Scorpion was the base for male ninjas during sprite capture, but if not, I'm not 100% sure if it can be recolored within the confines of the source code that the hacker has access to.

Actually I just meant that Smoke's autocombo should use more generic punch/elbow frames from the existing ninja sprites. This way Scorpion could at least visually distinguish himself from Smoke with something cool. For Smoke to take all his special moves, and even his random hand axe autocombo frames, was just salt in the wound!

 

[Konqrr]

what you mean by normal jab? defense jabs are back?
also i think 1 hit pushback is the worst idea in this entire change log...
almost in every fighting game corner is the place u don't want to be in, so that motivates to answer back and attack, if u turtle - u are trapped in corner wich is disadvantageous position.... now i will downback block in the corner all day lol what wuold u do to me? fireball chip damage? what if i play ermac and i will teleport and punish?
I vote against it.

I'm sorry I didn't clarify... it was very late when I made that post.

GJs are still gone, but the blockstun and pushback have been put back to normal. So to eliminate the corner jab infinite, all jabs cause pushback on one hit. This does NOT affect blocked jabs as they function the same.

You can nold downback block in the corner all day and take forever jab or anything else chip damage the same as in Vanilla UMK3.

 

[dubson]

this h.smoke airthrow talks starts to remind me THE JAB thread and still im gonna say "step up"
h.smoke's overpoweredness consists of damageoutput only, deal with it! Just like every OP char in every FG - damage is your only factor that drains the healthbar, everything else is bullshit.
I don't know how u are debating about fighting game and take the most important thing out of consideration, h.smoke can have triple airthrows one comboing into another but it won't matter if damage is low, who cares?
let characters be diverse and unusual, just balance the damage. Sometimes i start to doubt are u the OG umk players good enough when u say something radical. Dubson, do you have any match videos? no offense, i like your passion and overall knowledge, but i think you overestimate h.smoke, let him live.

lmao! damage is the only thing that matters! walk speed, recovery, frame data, nothing else matters at the end of the day!

you think I overestimate H Smoke?! I am done talking with you!

Has anyone even played this guy?

you want to play me add me bro! if taking others words about my skill isn't enough for you, lets play!

lets record me vs you! Please!

 

[umk_p1]

I'm sorry I didn't clarify... it was very late when I made that post.

GJs are still gone, but the blockstun and pushback have been put back to normal. So to eliminate the corner jab infinite, all jabs cause pushback on one hit. This does NOT affect blocked jabs as they function the same.

You can nold downback block in the corner all day and take forever jab or anything else chip damage the same as in Vanilla UMK3.

oh ok,thank you, i thought (don't know why) that it pushes back even on block

 

[dubson]

oh ok,thank you, i thought (don't know why) that it pushes back even on block

he specifically said "on hit", how can you comment on what needs to be done to characters in this game and not even know what that means, or question my skill? Lol

 

[umk_p1]

lmao! damage is the only thing that matters! walk speed, recovery, frame data, nothing else matters!

you think I overestimate H Smoke?! I am done talking with you!

Has anyone even played this guy?

you want to play me add me bro! if taking others words about my skill isn't enough for you, lets play!

lets record me vs you! Please!

ok mate i would have been happy to play you but i live in Moscow, Russia, and i have seen every US player in action and learn even from them back in a day, but i don't think you can stand a chance just like any other US player, no offense. I really think the only 1-2 players who can stand a chance are nodoubt and reo

 

[umk_p1]

he specifically said "on hit", how can you comment on what needs to be done to characters in this game and not even know what that means, or question my skill? Lol

calm down

 

[dubson]

ok mate i would have been happy to play you but i live in Moscow, Russia, and i have seen every US player in action and learn even from them back in a day, but i don't think you can stand a chance just like any other US player, no offense. I really think the only 1-2 players who can stand a chance are nodoubt and reo

lmao, bla bla bla.

oh yeah, you've seen all the US players (including myself right) and none in the US can compare to you Europeans, right. What about the SOUTH americans, pal? We play with them quite often, too.

another one of these type of guys who hides.

whatever. no ones played ya, no ones seen ya play. noone can vouch for you. you have no tournament results as proof. you have contributed nothing to the MK kommunity in comparison to myself.

Sorry that was all I heard you say. Oh, and also that you have no idea what your talking about.

I'm still willing to play online with you half way across the world and prove what I speak.

Good day.

 

[umk_p1]

if u interested that much i have some recorded matches search mafioso on YT, can u give me a link on your matches also?

 

[umk_p1]

i also don't know who the hell u are, that doesn't make me want to be arrogant and act like im some kind of war veteran and everybody owes me their lifes. Only thing that matters is how dude plays and even then, if someone is the best (and u are not, believe me), they don't act like that also

 

[Konqrr]

@dubson @umk_p1 please stop derailing the thread.

There was no reason to even post this except to cause problems:

he specifically said "on hit", how can you comment on what needs to be done to characters in this game and not even know what that means, or question my skill? Lol

 

[umk_p1]

i admire south american players, they are the best and they NEVER complain about anything in umk, that is why they are best

 

[dubson]

if u interested that much i have some recorded matches search mafioso on YT, can u give me a link on your matches also?

I don't think i have any UMK3 vids of me up right now but I used to have some from footage recorded.

I watched you play for about 10 minutes, and that was long enough to determine your OK but not near as good as you claim.

I'll play you for money, online…. LMK. Normally I wouldn't like to play for real $$ online. But with the claims you made…. No Problem. Record it too.

 

[umk_p1]

@dubson @umk_p1 please stop derailing the thread.

There was no reason to even post this except to cause problems:

sorry, but i also was into h,smoke's throw discussion and i politely (i think) asked if the most radical ppl at least play umk and if they have match videos.

 

[dubson]

@dubson @umk_p1 please stop derailing the thread.

There was no reason to even post this except to cause problems:

I'm done with him. You can see he addressed me, though. Again, were not derailing the thread, this is all out of getting H Smoke right and the "hack".

People are being very sensitive to his nerf's, I understand why like 9.95 said.

 

[umk_p1]

I don't think i have any UMK3 vids of me up right now but I used to have some from footage recorded.

I watched you play for about 10 minutes, and that was long enough to determine your OK but not near as good as you claim.

I'll play you for money, online…. LMK. Normally I wouldn't like to play for real $$ online. But with the claims you made…. No Problem. Record it too.

200ms lag is not umk, i don't claim to be best in the world, i compared myself with the active us players who had some footage, i have never heard of you, so you are not in my exception list. I will try to visit US in 2015 and hit u up on this money match. U are welcome in russia as well

 

[Konqrr]

I'm done with him. You can see he addressed me, though. Again, were not derailing the thread, this is all out of getting H Smoke right and the "hack".

Just keep challenges and questions about player skill OUT OF THIS THREAD.