What's new

Official UMK3:TE Changelog and Discussion Thread

9.95

Noob
You go through times you say he "doesn't need it" then say "it is a huge part of his game"

It comes down to options, and he has too many. Noone said anything about the move itself being broken. It comes down to the character and his options. Scorpion's damage and combo potential is nothing near that of Smoke. His footsies. Re-launch potential. Nothing man. He isn't comparable to H Smoke at all. Ermac is more comparable. They simply share an air throw and teleport so stop trying to compare them.

His walk speed has been reduced to Normal I assume, which isn't REALLY a nerf. His combo's and damage are now what I consider more Normal. Does "More Normal" H Smoke need a air throw? Maybe, but one thing is for damn sure, this Current H Smoke does Not need it at all.

Regardless, riddle me this Riddler;

If he doesn't Need it, then why should he be able to Do it?
Scorpion is completely changed and more viable now. That's my point. If you haven't been following the full set of changes, then you're basing this on vanilla UMK3 and not on UMK3TE. That's my point entirely. If we were just talking about vanilla UMK3, then yes, he does too much damage to warrant having so many options and SOMETHING needs to change...damage or options, but not both.

That said though, while we're at it, lets also take away NW's reflect move. He doesn't NEED it, does he? I mean, he has his arrows, his hatchet, and his shoulder ram. No need for it vs. a new Usub that can drop a clone 1/2 char away and throw ice blasts to lock you down, right?
 

9.95

Noob
All this brought on by so many people who won with a character that can kill in 2 mistakes and even more people who have 10+ years of bitterness built up from losing to him. I get it, but I also don't agree with nerfing a character into the ground simply because you hate him...not even Liu Kang deserves that.



I think it was a foregone conclusion though, that H.Smoke was gonna bring people out of the woodwork either calling for his demise or begging for mercy. So many people play him, and yes his practical combos are easy to do and easy to set up and are extremely damaging in vanilla UMK3.


At this point, I think we should all just drop it and let the hacker do his thing and see what happens.
 
Last edited:

DWednesday

Undisputed #1 ScrubBot Worldwide.
That said though, while we're at it, lets also take away NW's reflect move. He doesn't NEED it, does he? I mean, he has his arrows, his hatchet, and his shoulder ram. No need for it vs. a new Usub that can drop a clone 1/2 char away and throw ice blasts to lock you down, right?
Lol'd
 

dubson

Noob
I disagree. Back in the day, I wouldn't even consider her top 10. After playing people like @R.E.O. and @NoDoubt who have BETTER Kitanas than Crazy Dominican, it's obvious how good she really is. Her instant air fan alone is the 2nd best special in the entire game, hands down.



In regards to Kungs infinite, I'm speaking objectively, it has little to do with who I've played. His infinite requires you to jump, or requires some sort of mistake while applying pressure. With Kara and Glitch Jabs, however, there's almost zero reason to ever jump unless it's a safe jump, especially against a character who can literally kill you for jumping.
Great post/points.

Kitana

1 - To call her iAF the second best Special in the game is Extremely bold. Spin? Teleport? Projectile maybe, but Special? Very bold statement. Im sorry but I cannot place her top 5. If your going to acknowledge the skill required to play Kitana at such a high level to be top 5 (iAF at high level is very challenging, and its skill alone doesn't make her a strong character, you still have to be a Great fighter), you should have no problem then conceding to the point that Reptile is easily top 5. since his combo and damage potential are extremely high but also extremely unforgiving and difficult to pull off, even consistently. but we don't seem to be factoring in skill level required to play at a kompetitive level.

Kung Lao

1 - mistake can happen on defense, during His offensive pressure, which can lead to infinite. it isn't purely defensive at all like your eluding to… #set-ups

2 - being in the corner against Kung is basically game over if you lack a teleport because like you said you cannot jump safely. even a blocked/punished teleport could result in infinite. your lack of credit to Kung Lao concerns me. maybe as much as my lack of credit to Kitana to you, lol.
 

dubson

Noob
That said though, while we're at it, lets also take away NW's reflect move. He doesn't NEED it, does he? I mean, he has his arrows, his hatchet, and his shoulder ram. No need for it vs. a new Usub that can drop a clone 1/2 char away and throw ice blasts to lock you down, right?
Nightwolf isn't in the characters who are overpowered category, therefore not in the category of characters needing moves taken away.

your reaching now….
 

GetSpookd

#1 Enemy : Rust.
but its H Smoke as well.
Still, not as Kabal was.
Add me if you want me to show you.
There's no need to.

You're probably thinking : "b-but its your main and thats why you're so against it!"
No, he's not.

Funny thing, I've been actually playing a lot with Cyrax lately and can't wait to see how he'll play in the balance hack !
Basically, what @9.95 is saying: All the changes are based upon nerfs and buffs other chars are getting, he won't be a "second Noob Saibot" when everybod will get their changes. Removing a move seems like a bad idea, for any character.
 
Last edited:

dubson

Noob
Still, not as Kabal was.

There's no need to.

You're probably you're thinking : "b-but its your main and thats why you're so against it!"
No, he's not.

Funny thing, I've been actually playing a lot with Cyrax lately and can't wait to see how he'll play in the balance hack !
Basically, what @9.95 is saying: All the changes are based upon nerfs and buffs other chars are getting, he won't be a "second Noob Saibot" when everybod will get their changes. Removing a move seems its a bad idea, for any character.
Quit acting like Kabal and H Smoke are so far away from each other. They are closer than you obviously know or think. If you did know, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
In the UNK3TE i will main: Scorpion, Cyrax, Jade.

Nightwolf will be on hold for a while, those 3 above just look too much fun to not touch them.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
Great post/points.

Kitana

1 - To call her iAF the second best Special in the game is Extremely bold. Spin? Teleport? Projectile maybe, but Special? Very bold statement. Im sorry but I cannot place her top 5. If your going to acknowledge the skill required to play Kitana at such a high level to be top 5 (iAF at high level is very challenging, and its skill alone doesn't make her a strong character, you still have to be a Great fighter), you should have no problem then conceding to the point that Reptile is easily top 5. since his combo and damage potential are extremely high but also extremely unforgiving and difficult to pull off, even consistently. but we don't seem to be factoring in skill level required to play at a kompetitive level.
Kitana:

Well, it's definitely the best projectile in the game. The fact that it shuts down glitch jabbing brings it so high up. Keep in mind, I'm talking about the iAF, nothing else. You can throw it immediately after you leave the ground, and run behind it for free pressure. It's good in a lot of different situations, and the cooldown on when you can use it again is fairly short. She definitely loses to Male Ninjas, H.Smoke in particular. But, she has either equal or favorable match-ups with the rest of the cast, I'd even say it's a 5-5 with Kabal. Basically anyone who can't teleport has to deal with her iAF and the free pressure that comes along with it.

She also has great jabs, as do the other female ninjas. They out prioritize other jabs, and have great range. Her throw also is one of the best. The hitbox is ridiculous and it too seems to out prioritize a lot of things, and even throws you out of animations. She has decent ground damage, and exceptional punishment damage. Her damage isn't what makes her great though, but being able to get 50%+ off of a punish helps make her a real threat.

Reptile:

Reptile is good, but not top 5, imo. If he could iAF his forceballs, or they had less recovery like an iAF, he'd definitely be a contender. Even with his high damage potential, his strongest asset his is invisibility. I would say, that an invisible Reptile is easily top 5, same with Robot Smoke. The invisibility in UMK3 is definitely broken, I will 100% go on record saying that. All you need is setups to initiate his invis safely, and Reptile has a lot of those. The only reason he's not a top 5 character is because there's 5 other characters I believe that are better.

Kung Lao

1 - mistake can happen on defense, during His offensive pressure, which can lead to infinite. it isn't purely defensive at all like your eluding to… #set-ups

2 - being in the corner against Kung is basically game over if you lack a teleport because like you said you cannot jump safely. even a blocked/punished teleport could result in infinite. your lack of credit to Kung Lao concerns me. maybe as much as my lack of credit to Kitana to you, lol.
Kung Lao:

You can make a mistake on defense, definitely. It just isn't going to be very often, especially with gj/kjs. The problem with Kung Lao is that a lot of what he does is punishable, and he heavily relies on the opponent making a mistake. That's human error, which obviously happens a lot, but shouldn't really be factored in when considering tier lists. Anyway, he relies on forcing you into making a mistake. If you make no mistakes, he can only ever just apply pressure and his versatility helps with that, a lot. Which is why I say his infinite is not a reason on why he's good. It's the threat of the infinite that allows him to keep applying pressure, with you afraid to do much. The threat is still there in UMK3:TE, you just won't be punished with the entire round when Kung lands his spin, but you'll still lose 60% of your life, which by that time, you'll be dead anyway.
 

umk_p1

Noob
We have to play this game at least 5 minutes and we will see that all this theoretical debates are bs and we might change our minds on things we are so convinced now, because there are too many varyables in new matchups to be able to reliably say smoke sux and shiva pwns, so chill out a bit, no need to be agressive, very few umk players left, be nice to eachother
 

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
@tehdrewsus - in MK3 and MKT, neither Sektor can dumb missile while the smart missile is out, only in UMK3 can player 1 do this. If in the event it was an across the board rule that neither could do it, you can bet that this would be a logical buff. I'm currently posturing for Cyrax to get bomb access while the opponent is in the net, and this is something that will need to be thoroughly tested to see if it's too much or too easy to get bomb break infinites.

As for Human Smoke, it's only a consideration right now, and as everyone here should know, while there are a number of great Human Smokes, I am probably thee Human Smoke guy of the scene who is still active, has mained him the longest and innovated virtually all the current strategies and combo theory, not to mention directly trained a legion of Human Smoke players for years on Kaillera and XBLA, and I don't have a problem with it. From my perspective, eliminating the air throw just makes him a bit more apart from Scorpion. The air throw defined Scorpion, Smoke got it through proxy.

When you look at Smoke as a clone perspective, he is Scorpion with different combos and faster walk speed. The Smoke air throw is the only move even considered to be removed. Make no mistake about it, he can still break 48% off a knee lift, 50% off a jump punch, and 56% air punisher, all mid screen on the majority of characters without it, he just wouldn't have it in close range air to air. The only other thing I'd suggest, is add DP to Smoke's harpoon and keep the air throw, but this could reduce his damage even more, or keep the normal harpoon properties and disable the air throw if a harpoon or TP is used in a combo. Whatever the case may be, we'll know whether or not it's a good idea if it even happens.
 
Last edited:

Shock

Administrator
Premium Supporter
Kitana is a specialist character. She is deadly in the right hands. Reptile is also along these lines, although I think he is even more deadly in the right hands, for example, he could be made into a top 3 character in vanilla UMK3, I don't think Kitana could ever be beyond like #5. As for Kung Lao, his infinite is what makes him dangerous, but he has plenty of tactics and mobility to keep him a top character. He needs some kind of mid screen damage to keep up, but in Vanilla UMK3, aaHPHP, JK, whiff dive, HP, JK, dive kick is already like 50%, for little effort. I would call Kung, less of a specialist character as his pros are a bit more accessible with less effort.

Remember, Kung can spin for free on anyone in the corner after his 3 hit uncommonly used combo, he might get a mid screen combo to spin similar to the new concept of comboing or juggling into specials midscreen off lesser used combos, a la Raiden in MKT with the Superman, and Nightwolf's axe, and characters above him have all been nerfed. He was given back free usage of the dive kick at the cost of damage. After players get to actually test the game, we'll see what else needs to be done.

Right now, with the air throw, Human Smoke gets 49% mid screen off a harpoon. Without it, he can still do 45% on most
 

nwo

Noob
@Shock, you think Kung Lao is less of a specialist character than Kitana? I see a lot of Kitana's and not many Lao's, but maybe thats because I mostly play online. Half the time Lao's infinities are not even possible online, no matter how well you master them.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
If H. Smoke is going to still out-damage Scorp then something must be taken away from him. It really is that simple. What would be the point of buffing Scorp if he still isn't as good as H. Smoke?
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
So the justification for removing his airthrow is that with it he's still better than Scorpion? Okay, I guess we have to remove Kitanas iAF, because no matter what she's still too good with it compared to Mileena and Jade, I mean, it's that simple. Let's remove Robot Smokes spear because he's still much better than Cyrax and Sektor.

Of course H.Smoke is still good without the airthrow, and that's my point. Removing doesn't solve anything but take away an option for the sake of character variety/uniqueness, instead of balance.

 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
What if the overall goal is to make Human Smoke not a Scorpion clone?

Basically, HSmoke has Scorpion's Spear, Teleport, Air Throw, and Elbow Combos... plus Kano's Knee Combos.

What if HSmoke had moves only HSmoke had?
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
What if the overall goal is to make Human Smoke not a Scorpion clone?

Basically, HSmoke has Scorpion's Spear, Teleport, Air Throw, and Elbow Combos... plus Kano's Knee Combos.

What if HSmoke had moves only HSmoke had?
I don't understand the question. Are we adding unique moves to the game? Like, what is going on here? Is this Mugen? JK on that last part, but I do want to know if the hacker is planning on adding more completely new moves, or rebalancing what already exists.
 

Mgo

Noob
this is out of place but somebody knows if is possible to do a hack with autoswap when a char dead for online multiple players, like The King of Fighters (1-6 Players kaillera) rom? ... that would be funny
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
So the justification for removing his airthrow is that with it he's still better than Scorpion? Okay, I guess we have to remove Kitanas iAF, because no matter what she's still too good with it compared to Mileena and Jade, I mean, it's that simple. Let's remove Robot Smokes spear because he's still much better than Cyrax and Sektor.
Of course H.Smoke is still good without the airthrow, and that's my point. Removing doesn't solve anything but take away an option for the sake of character variety/uniqueness, instead of balance.
Say they somehow are able to make Scorp as good as H. Smoke. What's the fun in that? It would just boil down to what character is eaier to execute their combos and then the other character doesn't get used and then the whole point of this is moot.

I don't know if you know this, but the whole point of different characters is to create variety and uniqueness. It's what makes matchups interesting. The fact you compared Kitana and Smoke being the H. Smoke of female ninjas and robots is laughable.

Kitana is better than Mileena and Jade because her design is completely different and happens to be more effective in UMK3's meta than the others. Not just iAF.
Smoke is better than Cyrax and Sektor because his design is completely different and happens to be more effective in UMK3's meta than the others. Not just spear.

H. Smoke is better than Scorp because he is the exact same design but Smoke does waaaay more damage.

There's a big difference there.

The whole point of this project is to buff the designs that were too weak, and nerf the designs that were too strong. If you don't get that much, then you should probably stick to UMK3.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
What if the overall goal is to make Human Smoke not a Scorpion clone?

Basically, HSmoke has Scorpion's Spear, Teleport, Air Throw, and Elbow Combos... plus Kano's Knee Combos.

What if HSmoke had moves only HSmoke had?
While I do agree with this ideology, there should be significantly different reasons to use one or the other, you would then have to take into account Ermac having TP, R.Smoke having TU, C.Sub or Reptile having slide etc. Or even the HK,D+LP starter (which visibly uses Scorpion's axe... should that not be a popup for Scorpion himself? lol). Straight up removing specials seems a sentimental solution at best.

For the record (just for anyone else reading/replying to this), this is my first post on the matter and I'd just like to point out I have no attachment to H.Smoke. Every suggestion/opinion I've had on UMK3TE changes, I've called straight down the middle.
 

dubson

Noob
@Shock, you think Kung Lao is less of a specialist character than Kitana? I see a lot of Kitana's and not many Lao's, but maybe thats because I mostly play online. Half the time Lao's infinities are not even possible online, no matter how well you master them.
Specialist referring to the skill level required to use her at high level/tournament play, being much much harder than kung lao. Kung has he easiest infinite in the game, that alone draws people into using him. Also, his infinite is not that difficult to do (especially compared to Reptile). Hence, Reptile also being very much so a specialist character….

Mastering her iAF and using it effectively in high level play to the point of not hindering you at all, on optimal rushdown or anything, is extremely hard to do. One would have a much better chance of climbing the ranks and just an overall easier time winning higher level matches learning Kung Lao and mastering His infinite than trying to learn and master Kitana and her iAF, in a nutshell…

And I would rather have Kung Lao and his infinite possibilities against Kabal and H Smoke than Kitana all day.