Let's talk about that 3/5 at Kumite

[Pig Of The Hut]

Yeah AK people will ask if we can get an adjustment for at least the stage pick rules to be double random and guage interest in doing pools not just winners/losers to be 3/5.

Final Round website still says stage rules are picked and then 50/50 pick after character change? I thought we were all done with that?

I contacted shin this week About stage rules and 3/5

 

[THTB]

If you guys want to do 3/5, you gotta help with setups. That is a major thing holding back the idea. MLG had a fuck ton of setups (30 setups for approximately 90+ players at MLG Columbus plus a stream station)...that is why 3/5 worked wonderfully there with 15 minute breaks between rounds. It also helps if the ones running the tournament are strict as shit on timing. But the setups part is a big deal, and you guys have to be willing to bring in setups. If not, you are literally asking TOs to either drop even more money for setups (a setup = console, game and monitor. Oh, and DLC if the game isn't UE)...or run 3/5 on what 4-5 setups they have (which ends in complaints due to running too long and being forced to start early).

If you guys want this, you have to be the ones supporting the cause. Don't expect it to fall into the hands of the TOs, because you'll be disappointed when these demands are revealed to be hard for them.

 

[Lilith]

Thank you! @THTB So considerate ;_;

 

[TakeAChance]

If you guys want to do 3/5, you gotta help with setups. That is a major thing holding back the idea. MLG had a fuck ton of setups (30 setups for approximately 90+ players at MLG Columbus plus a stream station)...that is why 3/5 worked wonderfully there with 15 minute breaks between rounds. It also helps if the ones running the tournament are strict as shit on timing. But the setups part is a big deal, and you guys have to be willing to bring in setups. If not, you are literally asking TOs to either drop even more money for setups (a setup = console, game and monitor. Oh, and DLC if the game isn't UE)...or run 3/5 on what 4-5 setups they have (which ends in complaints due to running too long and being forced to start early).

If you guys want this, you have to be the ones supporting the cause. Don't expect it to fall into the hands of the TOs, because you'll be disappointed when these demands are revealed to be hard for them.

This is something that a TO should be able to provide on their own. That's their job. We pay the venue fees, the entry fees to play OUR games in the best way possible. Why is it up to the player to pay to play/be there and then provide the setups as well?

Seems like a sweet gig for a T.O. who can then bash the players for not having a setup. (This has happened to me at a local and I wanted to bash my fist into his face)

 

[1man3letters]

ireland been doing 3/5 since day 1, cmon yanks catch up

 

[Zoidberg747]

This is something that a TO should be able to provide on their own. That's their job. We pay the venue fees, the entry fees to play OUR games in the best way possible. Why is it up to the player to pay to play/be there and then provide the setups as well?

Seems like a sweet gig for a T.O. who can then bash the players for not having a setup. (This has happened to me at a local and I wanted to bash my fist into his face)

Wanting a T.O to provide 10-20 setups by themselves is absolutely ridiculous.

If you want 3/5 then make it viable for the TO to do that. Otherwise they don't have any reason to switch other than a bunch of people on a website complaining.

 

[THTB]

This is something that a TO should be able to provide on their own. That's their job. We pay the venue fees, the entry fees to play OUR games in the best way possible. Why is it up to the player to pay to play/be there and then provide the setups as well?

Seems like a sweet gig for a T.O. who can then bash the players for not having a setup. (This has happened to me at a local and I wanted to bash my fist into his face)

Because maybe entry and venue fees aren't always providing enough coverage for the extra setups? Not to mention, more setups = more space required, which some venues may be lacking in.

Also, people act like there was never a point where setups were provided by the community itself. The last non-MLG major I went to (Seasons Beatings 2011), some of MK9's setups were provided by players themselves. Why is it all of a sudden beneath us to bring setups, when this was the norm relatively not too long ago?

 

[TakeAChance]

Wanting a T.O to provide 10-20 setups by themselves is absolutely ridiculous.

If you want 3/5 then make it viable for the TO to do that. Otherwise they don't have any reason to switch other than a bunch of people on a website complaining.

If this is a major, and I am paying ~50 bucks to enter along with an entrance fee per game I would hope there would be enough setups. Why is it the players responsibility to make sure the T.O. has everything he needs to hold his event?

You don't play for a sports team and buy your team jersey.

 

[TakeAChance]

Because maybe entry and venue fees aren't always providing enough coverage for the extra setups? Not to mention, more setups = more space required, which some venues may be lacking in.

Also, people act like there was never a point where setups were provided by the community itself. The last non-MLG major I went to (Seasons Beatings 2011), some of MK9's setups were provided by players themselves. Why is it all of a sudden beneath us to bring setups, when this was the norm relatively not too long ago?

If someone wants to bring a setup that's fine.

I think it looks really bush league if a T.O. is running a massive major and is demanding setups. We PAY to be there and play. That is what a major is.

 

[TakeAChance]

Keep in mind I am talking about Majors and not locals.

My situation happened at a local, but they had NO commited systems.

 

[Zoidberg747]

If this is a major, and I am paying ~50 bucks to enter along with an entrance fee per game I would hope there would be enough setups. Why is it the players responsibility to make sure the T.O. has everything he needs to hold his event?

You don't play for a sports team and buy your team jersey.

Because he can hold his event while running 2-3. There is no rule that T.Os must run a game 3/5.

Also that last sentence is not always true. You do indeed pay for your uniform for some school or even college teams.

 

[TakeAChance]

Because he can hold his event while running 2-3. There is no rule that T.Os must run a game 3/5.

Also that last sentence is not always true. You do indeed pay for your uniform for some school or even college teams.

Right, you pay for amateur teams.

These are supposed to be MAJORS.

You are right, there is definitely no rule that a T.O. must run a game 3/5, but if there is a player demand to run a game 3/5 why wouldn't a T.O. oblige?

A T.O.'s job is to ensure that their event is of the highest calibur. Currently there have been a few T.O.'s who have supported going 3/5. If that becomes the standard at other tournaments all other T.O.'s will be forced to comply.

Why is it my responsibility to bring a setup to an event that I am paying to compete in?

As I said, this need not apply for locals.

 

[THTB]

If someone wants to bring a setup that's fine.

I think it looks really bush league if a T.O. is running a massive major and is demanding setups. We PAY to be there and play. That is what a major is.

Again, why is this expected now, when not too long ago, it was the norm for players to make sure there were enough setups for their game?

Here's a normal tournament station nowadays (that is also EXPECTED to be the norm) in the case of Injustice:

360 - can range anywhere from 70 bucks to 150 for the cheapest model
Monitor - ASUS EVO monitor, which usually is no cheaper than 120 bucks
Copy of the game - Fortunately for Injustice, UE exists, so 60 bucks

Let's assume the Xbox is 100 bucks, so that is 280 per setup (after tax, we'll say 300). And let's assume that venue + entry is 30 + 10, and that this entire cost is going towards providing for setups. 300/40 = 7.5. So it will take almost 8 entries to provide ONE setup, in the scenario that all the money goes towards that. 30 people are needed for at least 4 setups. 60 for 8. 16 for 120. Again, this is assuming that this money simply goes towards setups and nothing else...not including the cost to rent the venue, possibly the need for things such as power strips NOT provided by players or otherwise, etc. After all is said and done, chances are you'll be lucky if 8 setups for 120 people is a possibility after cutting everything down to be spread among other things. And if you're doing 3/5, this can take AGES just to get down to the top 16 with that few of setups per player. And remember, the entry fee usually goes almost entirely to the pot, and not to tournament costs.

So again, why can't you be arsed to help, like people have actually done before in the past? If this is an expected norm for majors, then the TOs aren't going to be able to do it alone. I've talked to Playing To Win about just running the monthly locals we had. To provide proper setups on his own took a good 3 grand out of his pocket to provide optimal setups (newer 360s and ASUS monitors and games PLUS any DLC characters), and we were only charging people like 7 bucks for venue, and like 5 per game, since it was a local.

 

[TakeAChance]

Again, why is this expected now, when not too long ago, it was the norm for players to make sure there were enough setups for their game?

Here's a normal tournament station nowadays (that is also EXPECTED to be the norm) in the case of Injustice:

360 - can range anywhere from 70 bucks to 150 for the cheapest model
Monitor - ASUS EVO monitor, which usually is no cheaper than 120 bucks
Copy of the game - Fortunately for Injustice, UE exists, so 60 bucks

Let's assume the Xbox is 100 bucks, so that is 280 per setup (after tax, we'll say 300). And let's assume that venue + entry is 30 + 10, and that this entire cost is going towards providing for setups. 300/40 = 7.5. So it will take almost 8 entries to provide ONE setup, in the scenario that all the money goes towards that. 30 people are needed for at least 4 setups. 60 for 8. 16 for 120. Again, this is assuming that this money simply goes towards setups and nothing else...not including the cost to rent the venue, possibly the need for things such as power strips NOT provided by players or otherwise, etc. After all is said and done, chances are you'll be lucky if 8 setups for 120 people is a possibility after cutting everything down to be spread among other things. And if you're doing 3/5, this can take AGES just to get down to the top 16 with that few of setups per player. And remember, the entry fee usually goes almost entirely to the pot, and not to tournament costs.

So again, why can't you be arsed to help, like people have actually done before in the past?

Here is the issue with your math. Most of the T.O.'s hold an exclusive grip on their region and provide their majors. They hold usually between 1 and 3 majors PER YEAR.

If the T.O. has some buddies that want to help and they donate setups thats fine, but to get to a tournament and have one run late because there is not enough setups is not the responsibility of the player, but the T.O. (tournament ORGANIZER) who failed to provide enough setups for the players to play in a timely manner.

Regarding your logic of "Why is this an issue NOW?"

It's an issue now because times are changing. Some players are refusing to travel anymore and coming to the realization that it's not worth it. You yourself can attest to this I am sure.

Tournaments need an overhaul in general and one of those has to be redefined expectations of T.O.'s and players.

We travel to play. They provide the means for us to play. We pay to use those means and the T.O. makes residual income from that.

It's a simple system right?

 

[THTB]

Here is the issue with your math. Most of the T.O.'s hold an exclusive grip on their region and provide their majors. They hold usually between 1 and 3 majors PER YEAR.

If the T.O. has some buddies that want to help and they donate setups thats fine, but to get to a tournament and have one run late because there is not enough setups is not the responsibility of the player, but the T.O. (tournament ORGANIZER) who failed to provide enough setups for the players to play in a timely manner.

Regarding your logic of "Why is this an issue NOW?"

It's an issue now because times are changing. Some players are refusing to travel anymore and coming to the realization that it's not worth it. You yourself can attest to this I am sure.

Tournaments need an overhaul in general and one of those has to be redefined expectations of T.O.'s and players.

We travel to play. They provide the means for us to play. We pay to use those means and the T.O. makes residual income from that.

It's a simple system right?

For the record, I never traveled for the money, and always traveled for the tournament experience, and only stopped because I'm a broke ass bum and was starting to get my life together lol.

And residual income? No, TOs have still come out and said that there's still issues trying to break even with what they even have. And not every TO even gets close to this.

I mean, you can go along and still think that it's not possible, but it very much is.

@Vandy @CaliPower @CEO Jebailey @BigE

 

[STORMS]

Injustice at UFGT10: X will be 3/5 for the entire tournament.

Fo reelz?

 

[TakeAChance]

For the record, I never traveled for the money, and always traveled for the tournament experience, and only stopped because I'm a broke ass bum and was starting to get my life together lol.

And residual income? No, TOs have still come out and said that there's still issues trying to break even with what they even have. And not every TO even gets close to this.

I mean, you can go along and still think that it's not possible, but it very much is.

@Vandy @CaliPower @CEO Jebailey @BigE

Most T.O.'s get the venues for free for reaching a certain amount of rooms booked. You do realize this is a reality right?

You are completely skipping over the point that the players are paying for a service. If the service is not adequate, that falls on the T.O. not the player.

I am not here to demand profit margins and numbers to be listed. I don't want to air out dirty laundry, and we would never get an accurate representation anyways.

Lets be serious here, no one runs events time after time after time if it's putting them out of business....NO ONE does.

My sentiments for your inability to travel, I have the same problems and my location does not help.

In the end we are two people who don't travel but have traveled before arguing about the tournament scene as it is currently. If you want to start tagging in some heavy hitters allow me to tag in my own:

@Perfect Legend
@CDJR
@Maxter
@REO
@Wound Cowboy
@AK Pig Of The Hut
@GGA 16 Bit

How many of you would love to see higher payouts and a more professional atmosphere akin to MLG?

If MLG is not going to pick us up, why can't we recreate the MLG experience outselves (Albeit on a smaller scale).

Most of these guys (@AK Pig Of The Hut , @GGA 16 Bit , @REO ) now have locals that they run/help contribute to that are paving the way for the entire Injustice scene and tournaments in general. Why can't we have rankings at a major level (like we do at local levels) along with enough setups to run the game properly?

How in your right mind can you expect the responsibility (and a big part of the responsibility) of T.O's to fall on the player?

 

[THTB]

Most T.O.'s get the venues for free for reaching a certain amount of rooms booked. You do realize this is a reality right?

You are completely skipping over the point that the players are paying for a service. If the service is not adequate, that falls on the T.O. not the player.

I am not here to demand profit margins and numbers to be listed. I don't want to air out dirty laundry, and we would never get an accurate representation anyways.

Lets be serious here, no one runs events time after time after time if it's putting them out of business....NO ONE does.

My sentiments for your inability to travel, I have the same problems and my location does not help.

In the end we are two people who don't travel but have traveled before arguing about the tournament scene as it is currently. If you want to start tagging in some heavy hitters allow me to tag in my own:

@Perfect Legend
@CDJR
@Maxter
@REO
@Wound Cowboy
@AK Pig Of The Hut
@GGA 16 Bit

How many of you would love to see higher payouts and a more professional atmosphere akin to MLG?

If MLG is not going to pick us up, why can't we recreate the MLG experience outselves (Albeit on a smaller scale).

Most of these guys (@AK Pig Of The Hut , @GGA 16 Bit , @REO ) now have locals that they run/help contribute to that are paving the way for the entire Injustice scene and tournaments in general. Why can't we have rankings at a major level (like we do at local levels) along with enough setups to run the game properly?

How in your right mind can you expect the responsibility (and a big part of the responsibility) of T.O's to fall on the player?

Need I remind you of Canada Cup? http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/oct/20/canada-cup-2013-lost-20000-running-years-event-tournament-probably-wont-return-next-year/

And did you hear of this? http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/aug/05/john-choi-talks-cost-running-norcal-regionals-tournament-covers-how-much-revenue-was-pulled/

http://shoryuken.com/2014/01/13/ceo-of-ceo-interview-with-community-effort-orlandos-alex-jebailey/ Check that out.

If you seriously believe these TOs are always in the green and can always provide the setups and the room, think again. Running tournaments isn't always bringing in considerable profits, if any at all. And the venues they can book for a good amount of room still isn't a lot.

 

[TakeAChance]

Need I remind you of Canada Cup? http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/oct/20/canada-cup-2013-lost-20000-running-years-event-tournament-probably-wont-return-next-year/

And did you hear of this? http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/aug/05/john-choi-talks-cost-running-norcal-regionals-tournament-covers-how-much-revenue-was-pulled/

http://shoryuken.com/2014/01/13/ceo-of-ceo-interview-with-community-effort-orlandos-alex-jebailey/ Check that out.

If you seriously believe these TOs are always in the green and can always provide the setups and the room, think again.

They went in the hole...and stopped.

I think you only proved my point.

 

[THTB]

They went in the hole...and stopped.

I think you only proved my point.

NCR is still going on. So is CEO.

 

[TakeAChance]

NCR is still going on. So is CEO.

I would find it very hard to believe that Choi and JeBailey being the intelligent people that they are and the numbers they get (especially CEO, which we know is comp'd in venue btw) would continue to hold events if they were sinking in thousands of dollars in debt.

I am sorry, but no one is that stupid.

 

[Vandy]

I can do 3/5 for Injustice because I have a full year to plan for it.

To ask a TO whose tournament is a month and a half away to suddenly change right now without any help is probably asking too much.

 

[Maxter]

Most T.O.'s get the venues for free for reaching a certain amount of rooms booked. You do realize this is a reality right?

You are completely skipping over the point that the players are paying for a service. If the service is not adequate, that falls on the T.O. not the player.

I am not here to demand profit margins and numbers to be listed. I don't want to air out dirty laundry, and we would never get an accurate representation anyways.

Lets be serious here, no one runs events time after time after time if it's putting them out of business....NO ONE does.

You are a very smart person T

My sentiments for your inability to travel, I have the same problems and my location does not help.

In the end we are two people who don't travel but have traveled before arguing about the tournament scene as it is currently. If you want to start tagging in some heavy hitters allow me to tag in my own:

@Perfect Legend
@CDJR
@Maxter
@REO
@Wound Cowboy
@AK Pig Of The Hut
@GGA 16 Bit

How many of you would love to see higher payouts and a more professional atmosphere akin to MLG?

If MLG is not going to pick us up, why can't we recreate the MLG experience outselves (Albeit on a smaller scale).

Most of these guys (@AK Pig Of The Hut , @GGA 16 Bit , @REO ) now have locals that they run/help contribute to that are paving the way for the entire Injustice scene and tournaments in general. Why can't we have rankings at a major level (like we do at local levels) along with enough setups to run the game properly?

How in your right mind can you expect the responsibility (and a big part of the responsibility) of T.O's to fall on the player?

Most T.O.'s get the venues for free for reaching a certain amount of rooms booked. You do realize this is a reality right?

You are completely skipping over the point that the players are paying for a service. If the service is not adequate, that falls on the T.O. not the player.

I am not here to demand profit margins and numbers to be listed. I don't want to air out dirty laundry, and we would never get an accurate representation anyways.

Lets be serious here, no one runs events time after time after time if it's putting them out of business....NO ONE does.

My sentiments for your inability to travel, I have the same problems and my location does not help.

In the end we are two people who don't travel but have traveled before arguing about the tournament scene as it is currently. If you want to start tagging in some heavy hitters allow me to tag in my own:

@Perfect Legend
@CDJR
@Maxter
@REO
@Wound Cowboy
@AK Pig Of The Hut
@GGA 16 Bit

How many of you would love to see higher payouts and a more professional atmosphere akin to MLG?

If MLG is not going to pick us up, why can't we recreate the MLG experience outselves (Albeit on a smaller scale).

Most of these guys (@AK Pig Of The Hut , @GGA 16 Bit , @REO ) now have locals that they run/help contribute to that are paving the way for the entire Injustice scene and tournaments in general. Why can't we have rankings at a major level (like we do at local levels) along with enough setups to run the game properly?

How in your right mind can you expect the responsibility (and a big part of the responsibility) of T.O's to fall on the player?

You are a very smart person take a chance, I wish this community accept the Facts that TO's will always care about their profits and also Capcom games and their reknown players will always get all the exposure in the FGC, this community should step it up and organize up to 4 events a year in a determine venue with only NRS games and possibly KI3, we should fundraise money within the community to have a good payouts for a top 8 and a way to encourage players to travel and support their own community ran events, if the community is determined we could all make this happen. we could have longer sets of Top players getting at each other and putting a good show for longer sets than 2/3 or 3/5, we could use venues Like the one at GGA or AK or any other where or venue fees could also be used to be added to the pot, I know space is not that big to host that many players but we could Implement a system in which good players or those who have proven themselves would qualify for these event that we as a community could host and fund, or maybe a voting system?. we will lack quantity but we will excel in quality and I know the community and Stream monsters would love seeing these Top players proving themselves in Long sets or possibly it could be Team based tournaments =).
Also will will need Hype commentators for the Matches like we had at KIT =).
IDK guys how this would work and I'm just putting an Idea out there =/, we need current and responsible leaders on this like Pig of the hut, 16 bit, Shock Phil, Gamer Blake, Cat, Storm etc to take initiative and make this happen.

What do you guys think?

 

[Red Reaper]

I did like that the top 8 was 3/5. My concern is that this would cause tournaments to run FOREVER. As it is, tournaments are pretty much all day events that can run late. Imagine if we added the 3/5 set to that.

Scumbag @FOREVER KING, trying to pull a fast one on us..

 

[TakeAChance]

You are a very smart person take a chance, I wish this community accept the Facts that TO's will always care about their profits and also Capcom games and their reknown players will always get all the exposure in the FGC, this community should step it up and organize up to 4 events a year in a determine venue with only NRS games and possibly KI3, we should fundraise money within the community to have a good payouts for a top 8 and a way to encourage players to travel and support their own community ran events, if the community is determined we could all make this happen. we could have longer sets of Top players getting at each other and putting a good show for longer sets than 2/3 or 3/5, we could use venues Like the one at GGA or AK or any other where or venue fees could also be used to be added to the pot, I know space is not that big to host that many players but we could Implement a system in which good players or those who have proven themselves would qualify for these event that we as a community could host and fund, or maybe a voting system?. we will lack quantity but we will excel in quality and I know the community and Stream monsters would love seeing these Top players proving themselves in Long sets or possibly it could be Team based tournaments =).
Also will will need Hype commentators for the Matches like we had at KIT =).
IDK guys how this would work and I'm just putting an Idea out there =/, we need current and responsible leaders on this like Pig of the hut, 16 bit, Shock Phil, Gamer Blake, Cat, Storm etc to take initiative and make this happen.

What do you guys think?

All it would take is a group of investors. If the venues were affordable and there was even 20 backers the payouts would be much larger per game than any current tournament.