General/Other - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn General Discussion

[Belial]

Trolling? Or . . . ?

No I'm dead serious. The hype is misplaced. KK is still crap. At least blood god is . The reason shinnok jumped tiers is bc he got complete change of his tools that affected his gameplay fundamentally. Should he get buffs like Kotal (ie more damage buff or safer amulet ) that wouldn't change much. Fundamentally he still suck. Totem duration just doesnt allow for much outside of setups (obs totem might not even see much play) he still lacks in every regard that matters your gamelan is still randomly hitting your opponent. He will not get anywhere near upper tier levels.

 

[Shark Tank]

I'm partially hyped about sun god, I have no opinion on blood god on in this particular time point of the space time continuum

 

[RYX]

It was safe before

no, reptile's EX slide was fast enough to punish it prepatch

 

[Belial]

no, reptile's EX slide was fast enough to punish it prepatch

No it wasnt you werent doing totem early enough, even cassie cartwheel didnt punish it.

 

[RYX]

No it wasnt you werent doing totem early enough, even cassie cartwheel didnt punish it.

okay, and now we have 5 more frames of advantage

so let's party

 

[Belial]

okay, and now we have 5 more frames of advantage

so let's party

Faster recovery so far means 2 things - 114 adv on block as I already mentioned and that wakeup setups got even better - for example you can now use normal parry (instead of ex parry) after 212, totem and that will beat WKA throws as well as most other WKAs
Its important to mention that some atacks will become safer if parried, notably Mileena roll

 

[RYX]

Its important to mention that some atacks will become safer if parried, notably Mileena roll

i noticed this a while ago, it's certainly annoying but 114 is still fast enough to punish it every time

i wish he had an answer to multiple hitting moves but I guess we'll have to live with that

 

[Stoneshotz]

I have to try that walkblock thing. What about chip damage? I feel like once u get close u have already taken alot of chip damage.

 

[regulas]

Ok so totems, the notes says 5 frames faster on recovery?, something to note is that a lot of moves can be cancelled into totem safely even vs 6 frame reversals (some frame data is wrong for cancel data for sure) so if it's 5 frames faster then that means cancelling with totems would be just around neutral or even positive.

 

[Hassun]

After checking kotal new buffs more closely I realized that they make no difference. Kotal Khan that is not War God is still crap and will remain so forever it seems.

I can see where you are coming from since Kotal did not really get new tools and War God still has the best tools of the three.
That being said the damage Kotal can do is devastating and has gotten even more devastating for Sun and Blood God so I am curious to see more of those two in competition. Even just as secondary characters/variations.

I hope you will stick with Kotal in competition and show us what he's capable of!

 

[Shark Tank]

Buffs Kotal needs:
S̶u̶n̶ ̶G̶o̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶w̶
A̶A̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶w̶
Parry
Sunbeam

 

[Second Saint]

I'm busy and don't have the patch, but I was wondering if something like f1b2~soul scorch, d1~airgrab might be possible for Sun God now. I'm not super familiar with Sun God, so I have no idea if it was ever a close thing. I really hope that's the case, though. It'd just be so cool being able to spend your charges and gain one back in the same combo.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

With five frame faster recovery, are there new BnB set-up combos for Blood God? Did anyone even make a guide yet for like crystal totem set-up combos and crystal totem + blood sacrifice set-up combos? I really love Blood God's damage but often am a little lost as to what I should do after landing a hit.

Unless I've got both going and I land that f2 f2 d2 for 53%

 

[RYX]

I'm busy and don't have the patch, but I was wondering if something like f1b2~soul scorch, d1~airgrab might be possible for Sun God now. I'm not super familiar with Sun God, so I have no idea if it was ever a close thing. I really hope that's the case, though. It'd just be so cool being able to spend your charges and gain one back in the same combo.

It was always possible. Soul Scorch has the exact same frame data as Blood God's totems.

Right now Kotal Kahn can do f1b2~SS, b14~Sun Choke for moderate damage ( low 30s) and up to more than half a bar of meter.

 

[RYX]

i think sun god's his best variant now. so much better post-patch with what might be a frame trap if it's just-framed and unavoidable tick throws + better meter gain and damage

 

[Belial]

With five frame faster recovery, are there new BnB set-up combos for Blood God? Did anyone even make a guide yet for like crystal totem set-up combos and crystal totem + blood sacrifice set-up combos? I really love Blood God's damage but often am a little lost as to what I should do after landing a hit.

Unless I've got both going and I land that f2 f2 d2 for 53%

I posted most of useful into on post patch buffs and combos in this thread already, people just dont seem to care reading

 

[KeyserSoze]

No I'm dead serious. The hype is misplaced. KK is still crap. At least blood god is . The reason shinnok jumped tiers is bc he got complete change of his tools that affected his gameplay fundamentally. Should he get buffs like Kotal (ie more damage buff or safer amulet ) that wouldn't change much. Fundamentally he still suck. Totem duration just doesnt allow for much outside of setups (obs totem might not even see much play) he still lacks in every regard that matters your gamelan is still randomly hitting your opponent. He will not get anywhere near upper tier levels.

No matter how you slice it, being able to take 50% less damage for significant portions of the match is a big deal. If the obsidian totem were to fail to "see much play" in future, competitive blood god play, that would only serve to suggest that morons are playing blood god competitively.

 

[GAV]

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

I posted most of useful into on post patch buffs and combos in this thread already, people just dont seem to care reading

Sorry I missed that, your highness. I stopped reading after about twenty five paragraphs of you crying about the buffs.

 

[mattnin]

It's much easier getting totems out, I can totem in between projectiles now, yea! Blood God still feels a bit gimped to me though. Don't get me wrong, Blood God was my first mkx main and I love him, and I'm really glad he got some buffs, but it's still really hard to get inside. He's like old school SF2 Zangief now, once inside, he destroys, but it takes so much skill and patience. Maybe I need to train more but I still feel like War God is still better.

 

[Pnut]

Sun God isn't the best. It moved up but Kotal overall needs help for those tiers to move up. The problem though with that overall help would mean that War God would become absolutely broken. I see why they are being skeptical with Kotal because with a couple of minor buffs he could easily become top tier in all variations. These were a step in the right direction as 114 and 4 totem are now +3 or 4 and lead to good frame traps. Sun God could use another tick throw setup (instead of b14 maybe f1?). He's a little better, just not up there yet.


In reality we should want the Kenshi treatment because he's fucked up now.

 

[Genei Jin]

It's much easier getting totems out, I can totem in between projectiles now, yea! Blood God still feels a bit gimped to me though. Don't get me wrong, Blood God was my first mkx main and I love him, and I'm really glad he got some buffs, but it's still really hard to get inside. He's like old school SF2 Zangief now, once inside, he destroys, but it takes so much skill and patience. Maybe I need to train more but I still feel like War God is still better.

that reminds me, next game, give zangief a macuahuitl sword.

 

[Belial]

Sorry I missed that, your highness. I stopped reading after about twenty five paragraphs of you crying about the buffs.

I was merely stating my mind as I belive community feedback is important. If you look up my history I post quite a lot of useful info and tech on KK. Im afraid Im one of the few people capable of putting together actual and correct info to satisfy your answers, so you better start reading my posts like it or not. Otherwise feel free to dig through 30+ pages of nonsense.

 

[D4G]

Sun God isn't the best, nor will it ever be better than War God. War God just has too much going for it. However it feels good landing a level 1 command grab and getting a good amount of damage off it now. I've actually been using Kotal's Soul Scorch today because going back to lvl 1 is not so bad a trade off for a 15% health regen. I feel Sun God is as good as it's ever going to get, and to be honest it feels good man.

 

[Shark Tank]

It can get better, possibly surpass wargod, we just need to downplay more.

By the way anyone ever trade with Kotals aa post-patch? Just curious.