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Community Project - Punishment Guide (Interest Check)

Urichinan

Urichinan

@Urichinan
Hello everyone, and welcome to a new community project I'd like to begin.

I'll start off by explaining my goal for this project:

The Punishment Guide is a tutorial showcasing every move a character can punish, for instance, we will take Cyrax and run through the entire cast to see what he can punish, with what attacks. Then all of the information will be compiled in a complete list of everything punishable in the game and what each character can do to punish those attacks.

Because I am limited in how much I can actually test alone, I need the help of the TYM community with this project and post feedback on everything found. Anything that someone posts needs to be double checked in case of mistakes and if something needs to be corrected then feel free to say so.

If the community is interested in this project then I will have a Mod/Admin close this thread and I will create a new one with placeholders and a clean layout for easy reading.

Post your thoughts on the subject, if there is enough people willing to help out then I will begin the project.

Thank you!
 
Korpse

Korpse

PTH | Korpse
this is a great idea, really great for people like me who don't want to dig through threads trying to find some info. Having all that info in one thread saves people a lot of time
 
Urichinan

Urichinan

@Urichinan
69beastlyninja said:
Great idea, but considering the amount of time it takes to assemble a match up chart I doubt this will be completed anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Figuring out what you can do to punish a move and compiling information on how each character fairs against one-another over the course of time and watching how character develop playstyles which go up against one another and adding those to a generalized list of how each character can compete with one another are two totally different testing types.

TL;DR

It would take way less time to figure out what a move can be punished by, then how an entire matchup works.
 
Urichinan

Urichinan

@Urichinan
(Sorry for the double post)

I guess no one was interested, I still can't do it all on my own, so I guess this project isn't gonna' happen. =(
 
P

Playpal

Noob
You're better off making a thread for each character in their respective forums. Testing every string and special.
 
E

evansgambit

Guardian of Outworld
The question your asking is essentially a frame data one. You want to know two things:

1. Frame Advantage on Block - How much recovery measured in frames or seconds, a move has after it is blocked.
2. Start up Frames: - How fast a move starts up, so you can select the best punishment available.

I believe the community is working on this, and collating Frame data.

Then its just a matter of looking at your characters most damaging combos, specifically the startup frames of the first attack, and then comparing it to the lag of your opponent's blocked move.

After that you can formulate something like: Sub Zero VS Cage: Blocked slide = 31% punish from Cage.
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Noob
Well it's been a year and we only have start up frames down. At this rate we will likely never have full frame data (adv on hit/block, active etc). So telling people to "just look at the frame data" is a little silly. They would first need to calculate advantage on block because it's an essential information that most MK players are lacking.

The only reason why I know Sub's slide can be punished by Stryker's B2,F2 is because I tested it in training mode (Not because I looked at frame data) . So from there I know Sub-Zero is at least -20 on block.

So regarding OP - Ideally it would be much more useful to have frame data than having a list of punishment options. But since most players cannot rely on incomplete frame data, then I think this could be a good idea. Especially to help newer players. But like others have said, it would go faster if you had a thread on each character forums where people would just drop info.

Let's just hope NRS releases frame data for the next MK game so we don't have to spend 2 years just coming up with the numbers. >_>
 
Somberness

Somberness

Lights
Vulcan Hades said:
Well it's been a year and we only have start up frames down. At this rate we will likely never have full frame data (adv on hit/block, active etc). So telling people to "just look at the frame data" is a little silly. They would first need to calculate advantage on block because it's an essential information that most MK players are lacking.
Click to expand...
17 characters have hit and block data, check most of my recent threads. I tried to create new threads so people would notice, unfortunately some didn't work out.
 
Vulcan Hades

Vulcan Hades

Noob
Somberness said:
17 characters have hit and block data, check most of my recent threads. I tried to create new threads so people would notice, unfortunately some didn't work out.
Click to expand...
Cool, I didn't even notice. I was just checking DrDogg's thread. Thanks for all that work man, I'll check it out right away. :)


If we do manage to get all frame data down. Then I think a thread explaining how to read and use frame data would be more useful than a long ass list of obvious possible punishment options for each character.

Because there's only like 3-4 types of punishment options when you think about it:
1. Full combo punishable (when a move is like -15 or more on block).
2. Throw punishable (-10 to -14)
3. Poke / quick special punishable (-6 to -9).
4. Check (+0 to -5).

So basically all you need to know is your fastest pokes/specials and how much start up your BnB combo starters have. Then just look if you have enough time to punish the blocked move. So a -6 can be punished by your 6 frame D1. etc.
 
W

Wombat

Noob
Vulcan Hades said:
1. Full combo punishable (when a move is like -15 or more on block).
2. Throw punishable (-10 to -14)
3. Poke / quick special punishable (-6 to -9).
4. Check (+0 to -5).
Click to expand...
A whole lot of strings are armor punishable - rule of the thumb seems to be if it doesn't jail, you can perform an armored move and score a guaranteed hit between opponent's strikes. Hell, you can even Kung Lao X-Ray Smoke's EX-TP between the 2nd and 3rd hit. Another funny example is Kung Lao's 21212 - you can score a guaranteed hit if you perform an armored move before his final punch, for example Cage's EX-Nut Punch seems to work pretty well in this case. Note that the timing is very strict, but then again from my experience if you do it late your character just keeps blocking till the end of the string. Anyway, it's pretty easy to test stuff like that without any framedata using the method I described here: http://testyourmight.com/threads/pimp-my-practice-mode.12837/ Probably gonna post some demonstration videos in about two weeks, as I don't have any means of recording this stuff right now.
 
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