Match-up Discussion Catwoman Matchup Discussion

[Ra Helios]

I don't know when the last time a matchup chart for Catwoman was made but there wasn't even one on page 3 therefore its out of date and the one on page 1 is irrelevant so here's an accurate matchup chart for Catwoman without this mistaken idea that she does not need buffs.

Aquaman: 3-7
Ares: 6-4
Bane: 6-4
Batman: 3-7
Batgirl: 5-5
Black Adam: 3-7
Catwoman: 5-5
Cyborg: 3-7
Deathstroke: 4-6
Doomsday: 4-6
Flash: 5-5
Green Arrow: 5-5
Green Lantern: 3-7
Harley Quinn: 4-6
Hawkgirl: 5-5
Joker: 6-4
Lex Luthor: 4-6
Lobo: 6-4
Martian Manhunter: 5-5
Nightwing: 4-6
Raven: 5-5
Shazam: 6-4
Sinestro: 4-6
Solomon Grundy: 6-4
Scorpion: 6-4
Superman: 3-7
Wonder Woman: 5-5
Zatanna: 6-4
Zod: 4-6

These Are my Match ups. That I experience. What do you think of them.

Aquaman: 5-5
Ares: 6-4
Bane: 6-4
Batman: 4-6
Batgirl: 5-5
Black Adam: 5-5
Catwoman: 5-5
Cyborg: ?
Deathstroke: ?
Doomsday: 4-6
Flash: 5-5
Green Arrow: 6-4
Green Lantern: 4-6
Harley Quinn: 4-6
Hawkgirl: 5-5
Joker: 6-4
Lex Luthor: ?
Lobo: 6-4
Martian Manhunter: 5-5
Nightwing: 5-5
Raven: 6-4
Shazam: 6-4
Sinestro: ?
Solomon Grundy: 6-4
Scorpion: 6-4
Superman: 5-5
Wonder Woman: 5-5
Zatanna: 6-4
Zod: ?

 

[Blakexton]

How do you deal with Doomsday?

His constant pressure and anti-air grab is making it super hard for me to get anything started against him.

Against anti-air grab you've got to mix it up in footsies. His air grab is great but he's gotta be looking for your jump. No one can deal with all the options at once. So mix up jump in, dash up, b+3, f+1, low whip and so forth. Keep him looking for as many things as possible. Consider that while he has good options to beat you in footsies the risk/reward is on your side. It's ok to eat 2 anti-air grabs if him focusing on that leaves him open for you to dash up and do b+1 or whatever.

After you block MB Venom what is the Doomsday player doing? I never just block and take his pressure. My default option is to backdash. Backdashing beats his fastest options like d+1~Earthshaker and sweep. Start off with that. Once they get sick of you backdashing they're going to start doing stuff like delayed sweep, f+2, or dashing up to meet you. Those options are not frame traps. He is only +6 after a blocked MB Venom and they're all slower. They'll lose to you doing d+1~claws, jump back 2 or mb f+3. So it's basically a 50/50 between backdashing to avoid his fast moves and making a read and throwing out a MB f+3 or whatever. It's annoying and overwhelming because he gets in constantly but the risk/reward is also pretty favorable for her.

In the neutral game if you want to avoid dealing with MB Venom to begin with you can evade it and then punish with trait cancel. You can do this on reaction easily if they're doing a full screen venom. It's trickier if they're like just outside jump range but you can do it if you're ready. Jump back 2 is also really good in this range. It can catch him trying to dash in and throw out a normal or a delayed MB Venom before he gets the armor of the second hit. It's a super annoying keep out tool against him. To beat that he's going to have to do an instant MB Venom and armor it.

Apart from all of this, Parrying Venom charge makes for an annoyed Doomsday player. If they meter burn it, you still parry the second hit.

 

[16 Bit]

Catwoman can only punish Scorpion's MB teleport if she blocks the second hit standing. It's ok though because if you block the first part low you can transition to stand block and then still punish it with d+1~cat claws. Just a random fun MU fact.

 

[Rodrigue]

There's a timing where you can punish Shazam's wakeup teleport with MB Cat Dash. It's tough but doable. You have to time it so you let him get up and do it, he has to have traveled far enough that you don't get the Dash to come out while he is still invincible. The invincibility wears out at the end of it. So there's a point where the invincibilty is off but he's still not done. The safer but less rewarding option is to pause until he's started them meet him there with a jump 2. He'll block it but you get pressure.

I usually meter burn the catdash when he teleports. Works like a charm. The Shazam matchup is relatively easy comparing to Doomsday's. Jesus I get so frustrated against a good Doomsday. I have to make some time to work on your tips. Thanks a lot for that man! I backdash his B1 but it still hits me sometimes though

 

[chemist4hire]

I usually meter burn the catdash when he teleports. Works like a charm. The Shazam matchup is relatively easy comparing to Doomsday's. Jesus I get so frustrated against a good Doomsday. I have to make some time to work on your tips. Thanks a lot for that man! I backdash his B1 but it still hits me sometimes though

Are you doing this offline or online? Cause I find this next to impossible offline. She either goes through him and lands in front of him or zooms past to the other side of the stage. His teleport angers me like nothing else. Please explain to me how you doing this.

 

[Rodrigue]

chemist4hire , 16bit tried to break it down as much as possible. The thing is, you have to dash at the very end of his teleport. The first dash will whiff because of his invincibility so you wanna meter burn it into another dash. That's the tricky part, if you meter burn it too early, you'll be dashing full screen (waste of meter, waste of punish). It has to be done right between the end of his teleport and when his invincibility wears off. I did it twice today online surprisingly and i'm practicing it a bit now.
So while practicing I found that a well timed b2 is not a bad idea! GGA 16 Bit need your thoughts about that b2! I will upload a vid as soon as i can here to show you how it's done

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

I usually just wait a bit longer to do the F3.

Also, something to note against Bane. You can forward dash under Banes mb db2 and punish him, or evade the last hit of it.

I need to mess with this match-up too though, there are certain things I don't know yet.

What punish would you recommend for that?

 

[Krayzie]

What punish would you recommend for that?

Dash under is great, but you already know that. Saw your video, good stuff.

 

[DeathInMyEyes]

I plan to lab it soon, but what do I do in the WW matchup? I feel like I can't do anything versus b2 shenanigans, and I feel like getting close is suicidal, which makes it hard to get the life lead.

 

[KC H0oKsw0rds]

I plan to lab it soon, but what do I do in the WW matchup? I feel like I can't do anything versus b2 shenanigans, and I feel like getting close is suicidal, which makes it hard to get the life lead.

It is kinda suicidal. A good WW should never let you get close and they will b2 you all day long. You must out lame and try to frustrate their range. If you stay out of the way of b2 they will probably start air dashing in which you can read and counter with jump back 2 into CDmb. Then combo but keep them close. Pay close attention to how and when the like to wake up and punish accordingly.

 

[CheapEddie]

Is that true that her Cat Dash in neutral on block if it gets blocked from fullscreen? :O
I always thought its about -6 or something

 

[tanosergio05]

Is that true that her Cat Dash in neutral on block if it gets blocked from fullscreen? :O
I always thought its about -6 or something

I understand that yes... only from fullscreen it's safe. (MB Catdash, of course)

 

[16 Bit]

It's never neutral. It's probably at best -5 or -6. This is absolute full screen. Like as far apart as the characters can get. After that it's punishable.

 

[STB Shujinkydink]

how does she do against Martian? what do you think her worst MUs are?

 

[CommonNick]

how does she do against Martian? what do you think her worst MUs are?

I wonder the same, it seems like cat dash (MB) beats all of MMH's specials.

 

[16 Bit]

Against Lobo end your juggles in 1,2,2 then do a crossover jump 3 on his knockdown. Time it right and it's a cross up that blows up his wakeups, backdash or jumping out. If he does wake up Hook Charge he's knocked out of it. If he does wake up Toss or AA grab they miss. Nice if Lobo is wakeup happy and you don't want to deal with the mixup of Hook Charge/Toss/AA grab.

 

[xWildx]

I'm not sure if this falls into the category of things already known, or if it's simply an alteration of tech already known, but I found it interesting.

In certain MU's, CW's 3,3 string after a 1,f2 combo ender seems to stuff a number of wakeups. Things like Batgirl's batwheel, Doomsday's shoulder charge, Aquaman's tridant rush, Raven's force grabs, Zod's charge, Nightwing's staff spin, etc. Basically anything that moves the opponent forward.

Now, the timing can seem kinda wonky at first, but after a bit of practice it's really not that hard, it's just making sure the second 3 hits and the first whiffs. 3,3 into claws works beautifully and leaves you safe if the opponent decides to block.

I can't record anything because I'm poor, and I apologize if this is known already, but give it a try in practice and see what you can make of it

 

[16 Bit]

I'm not sure if this falls into the category of things already known, or if it's simply an alteration of tech already known, but I found it interesting.

In certain MU's, CW's 3,3 string after a 1,f2 combo ender seems to stuff a number of wakeups. Things like Batgirl's batwheel, Doomsday's shoulder charge, Aquaman's tridant rush, Raven's force grabs, Zod's charge, Nightwing's staff spin, etc. Basically anything that moves the opponent forward.

Now, the timing can seem kinda wonky at first, but after a bit of practice it's really not that hard, it's just making sure the second 3 hits and the first whiffs. 3,3 into claws works beautifully and leaves you safe if the opponent decides to block.

I can't record anything because I'm poor, and I apologize if this is known already, but give it a try in practice and see what you can make of it

This is important but it isn't truly Catwoman tech. It's not that her standing 3 is beating wakeups because of some special property of 3, the wakeups you listed are simply not fully invincible. With the right timing they can all be stuffed with any move for any character. Doing this with standing 3 after a hard knockdown is easy to time because of the move's duration.

If you watch my matches from Frosty Faustings against Glass Sword you can see that I stuff his wakeups by ending a combo with 1,2,2 walking forward a few steps and then doing either f+1,1,2 or b+1,2,d+3. Both into claws if they hit. Learning the timing to do this is better than standing 3 because if he does not wakeup and blocks he has to guess on the 50/50 since both b+1 and f+1 can be timed to stuff the wakeup.

There are many more commonly used wakeup attacks that can be completely stuffed with timing. Catwoman's Cat Dash and Cat Claws have the same flaw. ALL of Aquaman's not just Trident Rush. Zod's charge AND the Palm Strike. Lobo's Hook Charge(you can time it so you stuff it after the invincible is out but before it has armor).

I highly encourage Catwomen to practice this and do not settle for stuffing wakes with standing 3. Practice b+1 and f+1 that way they double as both wakeup stuffers and a 50/50. Some characters cannot even jump, backdash or mb b+3 out of f+1,1,2 on knockdown. They simply must respect that option and block.

 

[Big Pampering]

I wonder if aris wants to pick the game up again with all these anti wakeup tech, iirc he quit the game because of the wakeup buff.

 

[Laos_boy]

GGA 16 Bit
I just picked up CW
Do you ever do catstance cartwheel against bane on wakeup. I see that his wake ups either whiffs due to her low hitbox or cancels out the armor( if he's on venom)

 

[16 Bit]

GGA 16 Bit
I just picked up CW
Do you ever do catstance cartwheel against bane on wakeup. I see that his wake ups either whiffs due to her low hitbox or cancels out the armor( if he's on venom)

Nah, never tried. Lately if I think he's going to wakeup I've just been dashing out of range for the grab and if he does uppercut I mb b+3 it. I'll look into this. Can he grab you out it? That's what I want to avoid.

 

[killa_solid]

GGA 16 Bit
I just picked up CW
Do you ever do catstance cartwheel against bane on wakeup. I see that his wake ups either whiffs due to her low hitbox or cancels out the armor( if he's on venom)

From hat I tested before, she can beat different wake ups with this based on which hk set up you use. For example after 122 you can beat venom uppercut but not after 1f2. And after 122 you cant beat double punsh but you can beat it after 1f2. both knockdowns beat command grab though. 122 loses to charge as well. And back dash is the answer to both. Is this your finding as well?

 

[Laos_boy]

Nah, never tried. Lately if I think he's going to wakeup I've just been dashing out of range for the grab and if he does uppercut I mb b+3 it. I'll look into this. Can he grab you out it? That's what I want to avoid.

I don't think bane can grab you. Because with harley I can abuse tantrum stance roll and his grab, uppercut and double punch whiff. So I'm guessing since Catwomans hitbox is a low as Harley's roll catwoman can blow up his wake ups.

 

[Laos_boy]

GGA 16 Bit

 

[16 Bit]

MB Venom Uppercut is the big one. Any setup needs to cover that. That is the #1 wakeup.