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The Death of Zoning in Injustice: GAU

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Lumpymoomilk

Online Punching Bag
Well, Sinestro and Deathstroke HAVE won big tournaments.


I have not seen a Doomsday win.

U sure that was sarcasm?
Doomsday won one tournament, when he had a huge splash hitbox which started combos easily for him (which is now gone) and nobody really knew how to counter his armor trait at that point either, now most of the cast has easy answers for it. They know how to avoid supernova crash and earthshaker which were a bit overwhelming when the game first came out but not a big deal at this point. I'd be quite surprised if he won another one.
 
Lol, I'm not downplaying, read my entire post. I think she's amazing as a charcter. I just think she has poor range on her normals. What I'm saying is that her being good does not make zoning dead.
How is cartwheel poor range? It comes out in 12 frames and stuff everything in its path (including anti air) and has the best range compared to any normal....
 
Some of those nobodies at the stupid tournaments look a lot like the guys at the big majors.
Are they family or clones? is that shit even legal?
Oh you mean people like Aris who go to majors and then can't win and get bodied by the true pros? Yeah I seen all those LOCAL champs go to majors and get bodied.
 

Saffa

Noob
Oh you mean people like Aris who go to majors and then can't win and get bodied by the true pros? Yeah I seen all those LOCAL champs go to majors and get bodied.
Oh ok. That explains it.
So moral of the story is that Aris is bad and people who win locals are scrubs?
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
How is cartwheel poor range? It comes out in 12 frames and stuff everything in its path (including anti air) and has the best range compared to any normal....
Listen to what I'm friggen saying. Not once have I said cartwheel has poor range. I said it doesn't cover 1/3 the screen. What I said was her normals have poor range.

Once again, my main argument is being ignored. What I'm saying is that the existence of batgirl does not kill zoning. THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING. I'm not saying batgirl isn't as good as you say she is, I'm not saying she doesn't have options, I'm not arguing at all with you when you say she completely shuts done some styles of play. What I am saying is one/ two characters who counter zoning does not mean "the death of zoning". It means these matchups have to be played differently. Zoning is still a perfectly effective tool against other characters.
 

Celerity

Lab Monster
Oh ok. That explains it.
So moral of the story is that Aris is bad and people who win locals are scrubs?
For the record, I think the guy you're arguing with is a fool, but he has a point in this case.

It's not that Aris is a scrub, it's just that majors have way more players and more high-level competition, so the results are more valid. The competition at WNF is still good enough that I would consider his repeated victories to have some significance, though.
 
Listen to what I'm friggen saying. Not once have I said cartwheel has poor range. I said it doesn't cover 1/3 the screen. What I said was her normals have poor range.

Once again, my main argument is being ignored. What I'm saying is that the existence of batgirl does not kill zoning. THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING. I'm not saying batgirl isn't as good as you say she is, I'm not saying she doesn't have options, I'm not arguing at all with you when you say she completely shuts done some styles of play. What I am saying is one/ two characters who counter zoning does not mean "the death of zoning". It means these matchups have to be played differently. Zoning is still a perfectly effective tool against other characters.
Um my whole point is you won't win a major with zoning BECAUSE of characters like Batgirl and Scorpion. Everyone and there mother subs Scorpion now so if you run into a zoner just go to your sub and GG. Do you see how many big names pros are picking up and maining Scorpion? Lol if you think zoning characters like Sinestro or Cyborg are going to win majors now
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Um my whole point is you won't win a major with zoning BECAUSE of characters like Batgirl and Scorpion. Everyone and there mother subs Scorpion now so if you run into a zoner just go to your sub and GG. Do you see how many big names pros are picking up and maining Scorpion? Lol if you think zoning characters like Sinestro or Cyborg are going to win majors now
If they CP you, you CP them back. What's your argument again?
 

Saffa

Noob
No moral of the story is MAJORS > LOCALS and you can Hold that because your fanboyism on Deathstroke / Aris is sad since he has never won a major.
Hahahaha
Where in the world did you get it from that I like either Aris or Deathstroke ?
Go be dumb on some other forum now.
 
If they CP you, you CP them back. What's your argument again?
Sigh. My whole argument is that I agree with the OP. Injustice favors rushdown chars and you won't win majors with zoning characters because they are weaker compared to the rushdown beasts in this game. Do you understand now? And you have to choose rushdown characters to stand a chance vs Batgirl and Scorpion like Killer Frost, Superman, etc.
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
Sigh. My whole argument is that I agree with the OP. Injustice favors rushdown chars and you won't win majors with zoning characters because they are weaker compared to the rushdown beasts in this game. Do you understand now? And you have to choose rushdown characters to stand a chance vs Batgirl and Scorpion like Killer Frost, Superman, etc.
I think I understand your fundamental point, but I still disagree. 2 bad matchups don't invalidate a character. Zoning is still perfectly viable against the large majority of the cast. Batgirl gets wrecked by aquaman but that doesn't invalidate her as a character. Yes rushdown is strong, but zoning isn't dead nor as weak as the OP is trying to make it sound.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Okay, let's get the idea that zoners vs Scorpion is a 10-0 out of our heads. It's not.

When I said that, I was referring to bad matchups in general. There are quite a few matchups labeled 2-8 or worse that have been overcome by top ST players a number of times. Watch Kusumomdo or Pony take on some pretty lopsided matchups.

It's not impossible. Hard, but not impossible.

10-0 is when you have Ivan Ooze level advantages over another character, in which you have NO way to even get a round against a beginner (and yes, Ivan Ooze is that stupid).
Don't call my main stupid. Bro, my character can't even block...level up!
 
I think I understand your fundamental point, but I still disagree. 2 bad matchups don't invalidate a character. Zoning is still perfectly viable against the large majority of the cast. Batgirl gets wrecked by aquaman but that doesn't invalidate her as a character. Yes rushdown is strong, but zoning isn't dead nor as weak as the OP is trying to make it sound.
If zoning is so strong then can you please explain why characters who are considered to be "top 5" at this point are all strong rushdown, mix-up, anti-zoning, and frame trap characters? And Aquaman is another rushdown characters which further proves my point...
 

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
If zoning is so strong then can you please explain why characters who are considered to be "top 5" at this point are all strong rushdown, mix-up, anti-zoning, and frame trap characters? And Aquaman is another rushdown characters which further proves my point...
The fact that the top 5 characters are rushdown has no bearing on the effectiveness of zoning. You mean to tell me that Deathstroke/Sinestro vs. Supes/WW/BA is worse than 6/4? Just because these characters have one or two bad matchups, doesn't mean they aren't viable.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Lol, which batgirl are you playing? Damaging scaling on smoke bomb is so ridiculous even with 3 meter (after the meter used for smoke bomb) you're not gonna get to 40%. Also, her pressure sucks. She has t-rex arms on almost all her normals.

Also, just because zoning isn't effective against two characters in the roster does not mean it is dead. It means those two match ups must be played differently. Also, I don't know where these 7/3 and 8/2 match ups are coming from because sinestro/deathstroke vs. batgirl is not 7/3.

Even if it were that bad a match up, it doesn't invalidate zoning, it just means that zoning is not a great tool to use against those two characters. Likewise, it doesn't invalidate those characters, just means they have some bad matchups. If you want your character to be like superman with 0 bad matchups, THEN PLAY SUPERMAN. Stop whining about how you can't zone two characters and either counter pick yourself, or learn the matchup.

The nature of any fighting game with unique characters is that some characters will have advantageous match ups against other characters. It's not like your playing hawkgirl who gets completely wrecked by sinestro or lex, you jut can't zone as effectively anymore.

Learn to adapt; or don't - I don't really care either way.
You are right about Batgirl's reach, but you are 100% wrong about her pressure because it is ridiculous.
 
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