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its been 17 months. lets solidify a top 5

HoneyBee

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
GGA 16 Bit said:
It's simple. We think they're wrong.
I mean, Theo is the best Aquaman player in the world and he's saying his character beats Flash. That's worth hearing out just as much as the Flash side.
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I don't understand how the top character reps believe he has no losing MUs but you think your input on Flash can hold more weight than ours. There's a reason we think Flash is as good as he is. We aren't pulling numbers out of our assholes. No disrespect to Jim, but just because your local Flash doesn't make top 3 at GBS, it doesn't mean Flash isn't that good.

You saying Flash has bad MUs should hold the same weight as me saying Catwoman is a top 10 character.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Noob
HoneyBee said:
I don't understand how the top character reps believe he has no losing MUs but you think your input on Flash can hold more weight than ours. There's a reason we think Flash is as good as he is. We aren't pulling numbers out of our assholes. No disrespect to Jim, but just because your local Flash doesn't make top 3 at GBS, it doesn't mean Flash isn't that good.

You saying Flash has bad MUs should hold the same weight as me saying Catwoman is a top 10 character.
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I mean flash obviously is very good, but we can't just say he is guaranteed top 5 tho. Others contend for that spot as well.
 
16 Bit

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
HoneyBee said:
I don't understand how the top character reps believe he has no losing MUs but you think your input on Flash can hold more weight than ours. There's a reason we think Flash is as good as he is. We aren't pulling numbers out of our assholes. No disrespect to Jim, but just because your local Flash doesn't make top 3 at GBS, it doesn't mean Flash isn't that good.

You saying Flash has bad MUs should hold the same weight as me saying Catwoman is a top 10 character.
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My opinion on Flash is not based on Jim. It's based on a general understanding of Injustice and experience fighting the character. You are right, my opinion on him shouldn't hold as much weight as a Catwoman match up. That is fine but there's plenty of successful players that are involved directly in your match up disputes.
 
STB Shujinkydink

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
MITDJT said:
oh of course, but DD doesn't have a better matchup chart than the characters being considered for top 5 (superman, Flash, Sinestro, Bane, etc.) Obviously DD is a very solid character, but him being in top 8 a lot of the times doesn't mean he is top 5. Also DS does well vs all the top tiers as well, doesn't mean he is top 5. Top 10 argument? You could make for sure.
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I think he's top 5, very we'll rounded with options everywhere
 
HoneyBee

HoneyBee

Flash God Lord
MITDJT said:
I mean flash obviously is very good, but we can't just say he is guaranteed top 5 tho. Others contend for that spot as well.
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If he has no losing match ups, how is he not top 5? Of course you can say you think he does have losing MUs but then we're going back to square 1.
GGA 16 Bit said:
My opinion on Flash is not based on Jim. It's based on a general understanding of Injustice and experience fighting the character. You are right, my opinion on him shouldn't hold as much weight as a Catwoman match up. That is fine but there's plenty of successful players that are involved directly in your match up disputes.
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Who are these successful players that think their character beats Flash?

I know Theo thinks AM beats Flash but I think Theo thinks that simply because he's better than the Flash players he's fought. I only played like 5 matches with him offline, all the other games I've had with him were online where he would always win the set but LBSH, online means shit when it comes to making MU numbers, especially something like Flash vs AM. I'm sure if I could actually have a long set with him offline he would change his mind.

I know PPJ thinks HG beats Flash but that's also ridiculous to me when me and him had a pretty long set at UFGT and the matches were back and forth and very close. Am I suppose to believe I'm just so good that I make a losing MU for Flash seem even? I don't mind people boosting my ego but I think those games with PPJ were even because we're equally skilled players, not because I'm better than him and my skill compensated for my "losing MU."

To be completely honest, before travelling to majors in the US, I thought I was gonna go get bodied in casuals with everyone I faced but it was actually the other way around. I straight up kill 95% of the people I play against and the 5% that I don't body go even with me. There isn't one single person who I played offline that made me think "Oh shit, maybe Flash loses this MU. I can't beat him. What the fuck am I suppose to do? I have no options." besides sonic fox at ECT (but we barely played any games so that was just his mind fuckery getting the better of me and I didn't know the batgirl MU very well at all).

So tell me, which other character reps think their character beats Flash? Because as far as I'm concerned, until they make me think so by beating me in a long set, Flash has no losing MUs.
 
Chuckychuck

Chuckychuck

Noob
Blind_Ducky said:
If flash has no losing mus, why is he not consistently in top 8?
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It's easier to place with Doomsday than with Flash. No execution barrier, psychological intimidation factor, easier to get around zoning and stuff. People get "Doomsday'd" but they don't get "Flash'd". That's why Doomsday has consistent top 8 placing and Flash does not.

The real question we should me asking ourselves is how the fuck is @16 Bit consistently placing top 8 with Catwoman.
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
MITDJT said:
Hold on a second lol, GL has worse mobility than supes, pressure isn't as good, damage isn't as great, and etc. But sure I could go over some things if you would like:
*His mobility is not going to make it easy for her to keep him out, yeah she has trait (that isn't exclusive to this matchup tho), but after that he has the ability to close the distance with his quick dash, dash punch meter burn, etc.
*Up close, raven is going to have problems (especially in the corner). Raven is constantly backing up in this matchup, so she will meet the corner eventually or have to find a way to keep superman away from her. Once superman corners her, things are going to get rough and raven will have to take some risk that could lead to her lifebar being drained completely.
*In the footsie game, Superman is very capable of whiff punishing a mistake made by raven. I know she has b2,3 obviously, but that can be spaced out and whiff punished accordingly
*Raven's wakeups suck, so when she gets knocked down she is going to have trouble getting away from supes.
I could go on, but these are just a few things. I am pretty sure I know what you are going to say to counter what I have said, but whatever go for it because I'm down with debating.
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What mobility? Superman can't dash through pillar to crush or mb flying punch or air dash. He basically has GL's mobility in this mu, actually id argue his mobility is worse than GL's in the MU because gl has a better walk speed. He doesn't just close the gap for free. He deals with her zoning the same way gl does.

Up close the footsie game is even or in Ravens favor. D1 can stuff f2 the same way it stuffs flashes b2. Superman can't punish max range lift either, big problem. Lift on block gives me a decent mix up, I can AA you, d1 to stuff dash in at that range. Oh and lets not forget her insane walk back speed which shortens f2s range and allows for easy whiff punishing.

Superman Corning her is the only chance he has of winning but that's not easy because he has to deal with all her zoning. And if superman is wrong on a dive bomb that's 40% into full screen trait. Which = death. Gl has better oki vs Raven because it's safe or +.

Raven having bad wake ups doesn't matter in this mu.

MIT I love you, but you don't know a thing about this match up.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Noob
Blind_Ducky said:
What mobility? Superman can't dash through pillar to crush or mb flying punch or air dash. He basically has GL's mobility in this mu, actually id argue his mobility is worse than GL's in the MU because gl has a better walk speed. He doesn't just close the gap for free. He deals with her zoning the same way gl does.

Up close the footsie game is even or in Ravens favor. D1 can stuff f2 the same way it stuffs flashes b2. Superman can't punish max range lift either, big problem. Lift on block gives me a decent mix up, I can AA you, d1 to stuff dash in at that range. Oh and lets not forget her insane walk back speed which shortens f2s range and allows for easy whiff punishing.

Superman Corning her is the only chance he has of winning but that's not easy because he has to deal with all her zoning. And if superman is wrong on a dive bomb that's 40% into full screen trait. Which = death. Gl has better oki vs Raven because it's safe or +.

Raven having bad wake ups doesn't matter in this mu.

MIT I love you, but you don't know a thing about this match up.
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I mean I'm just stating what DJT thinks tbh :p, I said to you at first it could be argued as 6 4 raven, but if you are saying "she bodies superman" that is like 7 3 talk, at least that is what it looks like haha. I know one thing about this matchup tho, pre patch supes gave her the business :p.
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
MITDJT said:
I mean I'm just stating what DJT thinks tbh :p, I said to you at first it could be argued as 6 4 raven, but if you are saying "she bodies superman" that is like 7 3 talk, at least that is what it looks like haha. I know one thing about this matchup tho, pre patch supes gave her the business :p.
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I didn't say 7-3 but she bodies him hard. Probably his worst mu.
 
E

EMPR_MURK

Noob
This just goes to show how the balance of injustice is pretty fair. Imo I feel that this game has the top 5, the bottom 5, and the characters in between are just good contenders because if we're having issues determining the number 5 character then trying to figure out the next 5 (top 10) would be hell smh. Still this is great thread
 
16 Bit

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
HoneyBee said:
If he has no losing match ups, how is he not top 5? Of course you can say you think he does have losing MUs but then we're going back to square 1.

Who are these successful players that think their character beats Flash?

I know Theo thinks AM beats Flash but I think Theo thinks that simply because he's better than the Flash players he's fought. I only played like 5 matches with him offline, all the other games I've had with him were online where he would always win the set but LBSH, online means shit when it comes to making MU numbers, especially something like Flash vs AM. I'm sure if I could actually have a long set with him offline he would change his mind.

I know PPJ thinks HG beats Flash but that's also ridiculous to me when me and him had a pretty long set at UFGT and the matches were back and forth and very close. Am I suppose to believe I'm just so good that I make a losing MU for Flash seem even? I don't mind people boosting my ego but I think those games with PPJ were even because we're equally skilled players, not because I'm better than him and my skill compensated for my "losing MU."

To be completely honest, before travelling to majors in the US, I thought I was gonna go get bodied in casuals with everyone I faced but it was actually the other way around. I straight up kill 95% of the people I play against and the 5% that I don't body go even with me. There isn't one single person who I played offline that made me think "Oh shit, maybe Flash loses this MU. I can't beat him. What the fuck am I suppose to do? I have no options." besides sonic fox at ECT (but we barely played any games so that was just his mind fuckery getting the better of me and I didn't know the batgirl MU very well at all).

So tell me, which other character reps think their character beats Flash? Because as far as I'm concerned, until they make me think so by beating me in a long set, Flash has no losing MUs.
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They can make the case for themselves. I wasn't watching the play at UFGT. I just know what they tell me and their breakdown of the match, not based on players, but character tools. It makes sense to me.

I am not surprised you body most people in casuals. I expect nothing less from a strong player.
 
Chuckychuck

Chuckychuck

Noob
A change of pace shall we?

Supes, Bane, Sinestro and Flash are the most brought up top 5 contender. State the primary reason on why one of these 4 is not worthy of the 5th slot. Maybe we will obtain a bit of clarity by identifying the reasons why a character is not fit for top 5 spot.
 
TotteryManx

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
FOREVER KING said:
Wonder Woman is not a bad character. She may not be top 5 but she is guaranteed top 10, like around #6-8. She only loses to some of the top 5 like Martian Aquaman and possibly Zod, that's it. Then she beats or goes even with the rest of the cast
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im extremely reserved because ive only been playing a couple of weeks, but all my time has went into WW and i agree. she is not top 5, but obviously top 10. that narrows it down. do you believe bm is top 5?
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
HoneyBee said:
Because he's not as braindead as some people think and there isn't enough players using him at the highest level.
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You said you are of equal skill with ppj, who has an EVO medal and major win. PPJ plays Hawkgirl, a shitter, you play a character with supposedly no losing mus. Am I the only one noticing the problem here?
 
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