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Political Discussion Thread

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
If America is a dumb country perhaps you should consider moving to another country. And wait a moment, are you actually arguing that being taxed more is a good thing?!
More or less taxing depends on the economic state of the country. If the economy is good and thriving then taxation is less an issue to be able to supply valid medical care to all its citizens, but if the country's economic state is poor and then people will suffer more from it. The issue in the US s that give the upper class less taxation and the lower more. This is a bass akwards
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
How much of a psychological capacity does a newborn baby have? Whats the difference if you abort the baby before or after it leaves the womb? Is it ok to kill something because it can't yet think for itself?
I think there's a big difference between the womb and birth, even if the baby was just born. The social attachment change between a mother (and/or father) and a newborn is pretty immediate, with a newborn developing higher-level human neurological functions very rapidly. So I don't think the psychological argument would support infanticide. And at that point the baby has a name and its own rights as a citizen, which constitutes murder.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Here is the thing a child 10 weeks and under is nothing more than a zygote, after 10 weeks a heart beat is developed and then the child is considered human.


It is perfectly logical that we tax big business more than the small business. If there was less outsourcing then we would see it like this, more jobs = more spending = better economy. Outsourcing puts more American out of a job so the big business can reap more money and get richer. With less outsourcing the system would run like a well oiled machine.
I agree that less outsourcing would be good for jobs and the economy. I do think that the high taxes give big business an incentive to outsource jobs. Why punish the job creators with higher taxes? that makes no sense to me. I think small business should also pay lower taxes, I want the lowest taxes for everyone. We'll never get those low taxes though if we keep giving our money to dictators and policing the world.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
Here is the thing a child 10 weeks and under is nothing more than a zygote, after 10 weeks a heart beat is developed and then the child is considered human.
Biologically, yes. But what I'm saying is there's more that makes a human that must be protected than those biological functions.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I think there's a big difference between the womb and birth, even if the baby was just born. The social attachment change between a mother (and/or father) and a newborn is pretty immediate, with a newborn developing higher-level human neurological functions very rapidly. So I don't think the psychological argument would support infanticide. And at that point the baby has a name and its own rights as a citizen, which constitutes murder.
So when is the official moment a baby is considered "alive". Honestly I don't think people should be having abortions after 3 months. It's totally irresponsible to get pregnant and not be able to decide what to do about it 3 months in.

I personally don't think it's right. If people act irresponsible they should deal with what they did, not put the weight on the baby (regardless of how underdeveloped the mind is).
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
I agree that less outsourcing would be good for jobs and the economy. I do think that the high taxes give big business an incentive to outsource jobs. Why punish the job creators with higher taxes? that makes no sense to me. I think small business should also pay lower taxes, I want the lowest taxes for everyone. We'll never get those low taxes though if we keep giving our money to dictators and policing the world.
Because it's not a punishment, it's taking a share they can afford so we can help our country. The government does not cripple businesses through taxation. We're actually ridiculously easy on these taxes, compared to what they used to be (which was not complained about much), and it makes it look more like greed explaining why they take issue with it. Plus, a huge portion of these businesses and high-income citizens are paying less taxes (as a percentage) than those in lower tax brackets thanks to all these loopholes we have.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
I agree that less outsourcing would be good for jobs and the economy. I do think that the high taxes give big business an incentive to outsource jobs. Why punish the job creators with higher taxes? that makes no sense to me. I think small business should also pay lower taxes, I want the lowest taxes for everyone. We'll never get those low taxes though if we keep giving our money to dictators and policing the world.
That is another problem we send way too much IMO on fixing other people's problems and less on our own. If we were to penalize these big businesses for outsourcing then it would become a big issue as well and would bring further from being a democracy and a capitalistic state. There really is just no way to fix the issue. One will have to suffer one way or another.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
Because it's not a punishment, it's taking a share they can afford so we can help our country. The government does not cripple businesses through taxation. We're actually ridiculously easy on these taxes, compared to what they used to be (which was not complained about much), and it makes it look more like greed explaining why they take issue with it. Plus, a huge portion of these businesses and high-income citizens are paying less taxes (as a percentage) than those in lower tax brackets thanks to all these loopholes we have.
This mainly due to the Bush tax cuts when he was in office that were suppose to expire but never did.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Because it's not a punishment, it's taking a share they can afford so we can help our country. The government does not cripple businesses through taxation. We're actually ridiculously easy on these taxes, compared to what they used to be (which was not complained about much), and it makes it look more like greed explaining why they take issue with it. Plus, a huge portion of these businesses and high-income citizens are paying less taxes (as a percentage) than those in lower tax brackets thanks to all these loopholes we have.
But they get more than enough money to keep the country running correctly. The way they spend money is the problem here.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
There is a plethora of issues with big business in the US, for one they need to be exercised out of the fed. government's pockets. A good example of this is look at the SOPA Act that was put forth, which was mainly written by the entertainment industry. These corporations pay off those in office to push their own agendas. Look at the NRA, they were against any form of gun control simply because it would reduce the sales of guns and ammo which in turn would cost them money, so they pay political officials to help push their agenda. I still say all politicians should be forced to where a sports jacket sorting what corporations sponsor them.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
So when is the official moment a baby is considered "alive". Honestly I don't think people should be having abortions after 3 months. It's totally irresponsible to get pregnant and not be able to decide what to do about it 3 months in.

I personally don't think it's right. If people act irresponsible they should deal with what they did, not put the weight on the baby (regardless of how underdeveloped the mind is).
I could agree with them being considered "alive" when the heartbeat starts. The difference for me is the difference between a "human" and a "person", if that makes sense to you. Killing grown animals probably does more harm to the victim than it does to a fetus, regardless of the development stage.

I understand the responsibility argument but there are so many factors involved there. For those who irresponsibly get pregnant or whatnot, you can thank abstinence-only sex education for a lot. lol
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
Not to mention government get's involved with business all the time, benefiting one over the other. That type of shit isn't fair and hurts the little guys the most.

Don't get me started on the USDA and FDA too.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
But they get more than enough money to keep the country running correctly. The way they spend money is the problem here.
I agree, especially with our military spending. I'm mostly liberal but we're not so naive that we think the government is spending properly. Even with a more efficient budget, however, more money is always needed.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I could agree with them being considered "alive" when the heartbeat starts. The difference for me is the difference between a "human" and a "person", if that makes sense to you. Killing grown animals probably does more harm to the victim than it does to a fetus, regardless of the development stage.

I understand the responsibility argument but there are so many factors involved there. For those who irresponsibly get pregnant or whatnot, you can thank abstinence-only sex education for a lot. lol
I agree, there's a ton of factors involved. I think parenting plays a big role as well as a lot of other things.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
There is a plethora of issues with big business in the US, for one they need to be exercised out of the fed. government's pockets. A good example of this is look at the SOPA Act that was put forth, which was mainly written by the entertainment industry. These corporations pay off those in office to push their own agendas. Look at the NRA, they were against any form of gun control simply because it would reduce the sales of guns and ammo which in turn would cost them money, so they pay political officials to help push their agenda. I still say all politicians should be forced to where a sports jacket sorting what corporations sponsor them.
I'm mostly against gun control but the NRA is one of the dirtiest and most despicable interest groups in the country. Gun sales, or the firearm economy or whatever you want to call it, far outweighs their interest in defending the 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment argument didn't even start until a couple decades ago.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
I agree, especially with our military spending. I'm mostly liberal but we're not so naive that we think the government is spending properly. Even with a more efficient budget, however, more money is always needed.
I have to agree here, military spending is insane after having served for 4 years I was astonished at the practices of the military. Being onboard a Destroyer (DDG) we would simply get underway for weeks to run fire drills that could have been run in port during normal working hours. (Though I work for a gov. contractor) Another issue the hiring of all these contractors to do normal military jobs. Contractors have to be paid far more to do a normal military job than a service member does. Why do we need civilians to run a guard post for a military base when we have capable service members for it.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
I'm mostly against gun control but the NRA is one of the dirtiest and most despicable interest groups in the country. Gun sales, or the firearm economy or whatever you want to call it, far outweighs their interest in defending the 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment argument didn't even start until a couple decades ago.
Yep and what was their most recent excuse for the true reason gun violence exists, Vigio Gahmes
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
More or less taxing depends on the economic state of the country. If the economy is good and thriving then taxation is less an issue to be able to supply valid medical care to all its citizens, but if the country's economic state is poor and then people will suffer more from it. The issue in the US s that give the upper class less taxation and the lower more. This is a bass akwards
I would prefer a flat tax for everyone honestly. Also if an economy is thriving wouldn't people be able to afford health insurance of their choice rather than a government supplied version? Honestly imo the government is one of the main reasons health care is so expensive in the first place. There's too many people between the doctor and the patient not to mention all the insurance fraud that brings up rates.

Also they prescribe an expensive drug to everyone who walks through the door. When are you more likely to dispute what you're being charged? When insurance pays for it or when it's coming out of your pocket? Honestly if people had to be smart about where they spend their money doctors would have an incentive to charge less, you'd probably see much more competitive pricing.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
I have to agree here, military spending is insane after having served for 4 years I was astonished at the practices of the military. Being onboard a Destroyer (DDG) we would simply get underway for weeks to run fire drills that could have been run in port during normal working hours. (Though I work for a gov. contractor) Another issue the hiring of all these contractors to do normal military jobs. Contractors have to be paid far more to do a normal military job than a service member does. Why do we need civilians to run a guard post for a military base when we have capable service members for it.
The problem is that military spending is always defended by conservatives as "protecting our troops" which is complete bullshit most of the time. The amount of money that we spend on "defense" compared to the next highest defense budget in the world is ridiculously high.

Say what you will about Obama but the "horses and bayonets" argument against Romney was a brilliant way of exposing why this is such a problem.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I'm mostly against gun control but the NRA is one of the dirtiest and most despicable interest groups in the country. Gun sales, or the firearm economy or whatever you want to call it, far outweighs their interest in defending the 2nd amendment. The 2nd amendment argument didn't even start until a couple decades ago.
I'm totally against gun control but as I said I don't think lobby groups should be involved with the government regardless of if I'm for against their views.
 

TheSpore

Nurgle Chaos God of Death and Disease
I would prefer a flat tax for everyone honestly. Also if an economy is thriving wouldn't people be able to afford health insurance of their choice rather than a government supplied version? Honestly imo the government is one of the main reasons health care is so expensive in the first place. There's too many people between the doctor and the patient not to mention all the insurance fraud that brings up rates.

Also they prescribe an expensive drug to everyone who walks through the door. When are you more likely to dispute what you're being charged? When insurance pays for it or when it's coming out of your pocket? Honestly if people had to be smart about where they spend their money doctors would have an incentive to charge less, you'd probably see much more competitive pricing.
A lot of what you mentioned is the after effects of a for profit medical system. You see in countries that have a socialized medicine system the medication a patient needs cost them nearly nothing. Having served in the military this type of system works very well. The government has far lil to do with the current system to date and this is why Obama Care is being used. There is nothing wrong with using your own private provider, but this now means that those for profit providers will have to actually compete and bring incentives to the table for people to continue to use them.
 

rev0lver

Come On Die Young
The original purpose of lobbies is something I see as totally legitimate, as a way for industries and interest groups to express their needs to the government and how legislation might affect them, it's just become so corrupt. It's a pretty similar situation with unions, but that's a different argument. We've progressed in some ways of dealing with this but there's always ways around it to influence politicians.
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
A lot of what you mentioned is the after effects of a for profit medical system. You see in countries that have a socialized medicine system the medication a patient needs cost them nearly nothing. Having served in the military this type of system works very well. The government has far lil to do with the current system to date and this is why Obama Care is being used. There is nothing wrong with using your own private provider, but this now means that those for profit providers will have to actually compete and bring incentives to the table for people to continue to use them.
Honestly Obamacare is not something I know a whole lot about. I do know it is affecting people in bad ways and the bill is kind of a mess. Maybe it's goal was to help but we will have to see.
 

Obs_SmSwag

"I have good taste because I like what I like"
So when is the official moment a baby is considered "alive". Honestly I don't think people should be having abortions after 3 months. It's totally irresponsible to get pregnant and not be able to decide what to do about it 3 months in.

I personally don't think it's right. If people act irresponsible they should deal with what they did, not put the weight on the baby (regardless of how underdeveloped the mind is).

It's a fetus as of the conception date, it's a baby when it's born (after the 9 month gestation period). A baby shouldn't be a punishment.