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YouTube VS Red Dead Redemption 2

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
yeah.. I love the IP as well, but I think you are being unrealistic. I doubt it will ever see main stage at evo again now that Evo is televised .
Only one event at EVO is televised, though. As opposed to the entire day.
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
I thought the entire finals was?... maybe main stage is possible.. dare i hope?
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I thought the entire finals was?... maybe main stage is possible.. dare i hope?
MK was already on the main stage at EVO more then once. And it's no secret that EVO treats the NRS scene like crap because they know NRS can take Capcom down and they are an American company unlike Bamco. IJ2 has no gore at all, yet it never made it to Sunday, unlike MKX which made it twice. yet in 2016 it was in the morning and after very poor arrangements for the players.

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on EVO if I were you.
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
MK was already on the main stage at EVO more then once.
yeah years ago... before the modern media landscape with twitch having more viewers than HBO and modern eSports.

I wouldn't put too much emphasis on EVO if I were you.
EVO will not effect our scene to much in a negative way.. we have yet to adopt a "main stage".. I guess ComboBreaker or KiT or something.. so our scene is independent of it... but EVO is the commercial centre of the FGC and that is why it is relevant to this thread. EVO is the big event in the USA, and one of the biggest in the world. Period. You can not downplay its role in FGC eSports, in the eSports "business" and NRS needs to get in on that if it wants to look to the future. Facts.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
yeah years ago... before the modern media landscape with twitch having more viewers than HBO and modern eSports..
And?

EVO will not effect our scene to much in a negative way.. we have yet to adopt a "main stage".. I guess ComboBreaker or KiT or something.. so our scene is independent of it... but EVO is the commercial centre of the FGC and that is why it is relevant to this thread. EVO is the big event in the USA, and one of the biggest in the world. Period. You can not downplay its role in FGC eSports, in the eSports "business" and NRS needs to get in on that if it wants to look to the future. Facts.
You completely ignored what I've said regarding how EVO treats the NRS scene and community like crap. EVO might not effect the scene, but how can you invest that much in an event that disrespects your own game and fans, not because of the content that it features (the violence and gore) but your country of origin and the risk that you present to them, NRS/WB are American companies that actually have a chance to take out SF since MK is the true rival of SF, the main game of EVO, from the very beginning, that also features tons of content from the get go that is done properly for each of their games, that Capcom and all of the Japanese games have sacrificed for the sake of E-Sports, and now they're trying to keep it up with NRS/WB and they almost always fail (except maybe DBFZ), unlike KI which was an American game but never was that much of a thread to them like MK). NRS/WB already want to invest at EVO and they tried, but EVO is to protective of their Japanese games' legacy and they keep treating them like crap in order to diminish them. That's why MKX got the terrible arrangement in 2016, and that's why IJ2 was always on Saturday instead of Sunday.

NRS/WB have done everything they could, both in terms of the quality of their games from all aspects and the advertisements and investment for both casuals and E-Sports, and EVO doesn't give them back. Now that NRS/WB have kept creating their own scene (hell NRS/WB have the first scene to feature a legit online sub-scene thanks to the like of Mr. Aquaman), we don't need EVO that much. We got the pro series which will be back in at least a similar format for MK11, we got CB, we got Viennality (an event that is made first and foremost for NRS games), we got KIT, and we got the online scene. We don't need EVO, and especially if that's how they wanna treat us.

Facts.
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
I didn't ignore it.. the fact it treats us like crap is a symptom of the game not being as commercially viable. I do not really know what to say. I have tried explaining my ideas three different ways and you still do not understand what I am saying. I'm sorry I am not being clear.

Forget how EVO treats NRS scene and forget about any relation between evo and he growth of the NRS scene. It has nothing to do with the topic I am speaking to. As I said twice already, we have out own independent scene that has contenders for "our evo".. like KiT or Combobreaker or w.e. The NRS scene doesn't live or die by EVO as it is now. The state it is in now will go on. There will be a wold series for MK and all the main majors.. it will be a healthy scene.

Try and read what I was saying with that in mind. All I am talking about is that MKx has been proven time and again to be unable to attract sponsors and advertises willing to associate with its mature content. Evo is just a very high profile example, particularly as it moves into mainstream media. Also, Evo is the one of the biggest mainstream events in the world. When eSports breaks out big time, and it is ever rising at the moment.. but in 20 years from now, it WILL be evo that breaks it in the US.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I didn't ignore it.. the fact it treats us like crap is a symptom of the game not being as commercially viable. I do not really know what to say. I have tried explaining my ideas three different ways and you still do not understand what I am saying. I'm sorry I am not being clear.

Forget how EVO treats NRS scene and forget about any relation between evo and he growth of the NRS scene. It has nothing to do with the topic I am speaking to. As I said twice already, we have out own independent scene that has contenders for "our evo".. like KiT or Combobreaker or w.e. The NRS scene doesn't live or die by EVO as it is now. The state it is in now will go on. There will be a wold series for MK and all the main majors.. it will be a healthy scene.

Try and read what I was saying with that in mind. All I am talking about is that MKx has been proven time and again to be unable to attract sponsors and advertises willing to associate with its mature content. Evo is just a very high profile example, particularly as it moves into mainstream media. Also, Evo is the one of the biggest mainstream events in the world. When eSports breaks out big time, and it is ever rising at the moment.. but in 20 years from now, it WILL be evo that breaks it in the US.
On the very first line of your post you already showed that you are not noticing what I'm saying.

"the fact it treats us like crap is a symptom of the game not being as commercially viable"

They treat us like crap not because it's not commercially viable, but because it's a pro-Capcom/Street Fighter event run by pro-Japanese fighting game people that don't wanna see NRS/WB taking their spot.

I'm not denying that are places that MK can't get sponsors due to it's content, because they are, we've seen this for YouTube, but like I said, YT in particular need every bit of money they can get, so it's not always because of the content alone. And sure as hell it's not the case for EVO, they do this out of fear, and yes, for money, but from a different direction.

And yes it does have everything with that topic, because you are the one who said that MK will never get to the main stage of EVO just because of the whole "commercial aspect" of it now that EVO "is being televised" before Crimson Shadow corrected you regarding the TV part. All I did was setting the record straight by stating the real reasons why EVO in particular doesn't wanna show any respect to NRS/WB, which has nothing to do with the commercial viability of their games.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Not all opinions are equal.

A Nazi hating jews and wanting to gas them or a paedophile thinking it is ok to fuck kids or some teenagers hating gays so thinking it is ok to bash them up are all just opinions as well. We as a society on the whole do not tolerate these opinions as it is repugnant to the majority.

Equally, hating on women is just another social hate that breeds violence, discontentment and anger, on both sides. It doesn't matter if some people think it is ok or some people are only mildly into the thoughts that others are fanatical about.

Hate is hate and it is ugly as well as destructive.
That's true, but going against the feminists is like going against the women. It's as if they're not letting the women have the freedom they longed for.
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
the real reasons why EVO in particular doesn't wanna show any respect to NRS/WB, which has nothing to do with the commercial viability of their games.
Well, I just completely disagree with you on this. I think we just have to stand on each side of the isle on this one.

The idea that a commercial enterprise makes stands like this on bias seams ridiculous to me. Businesses are many things, but they are not pretentious. MK is not "ignored" out of bias or due to CapCom's influence. It is because it dose not make as much money. The resources they spend on it, do not get the same return, and much of that is due to advertising and sponsors and also about the kind of demographics that make the most money. There is a reason the VPs steeped in and turned Vemon movie into a PG film from the R Rated cut.. If MK made more money, it would get more exposure at evo and be more prominent. It really is that simple.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Well, I just completely disagree with you on this. I think we just have to stand on each side of the isle on this one.

The idea that a commercial enterprise makes stands like this on bias seams ridiculous to me. Businesses are many things, but they are not pretentious. MK is not "ignored" out of bias or due to CapCom's influence. It is because it dose not make as much money. The resources they spend on it, do not get the same return, and much of that is due to advertising and sponsors and also about the kind of demographics that make the most money. There is a reason the VPs steeped in and turned Vemon movie into a PG film from the R Rated cut.. If MK made more money, it would get more exposure at evo and be more prominent. It really is that simple.
Companies and organizations can act out of bias for their personal needs, and that's the same case for EVO. How is it that EVO would let make a terrible arrangement for the players in terms of rooms to play and places to sit, forcing the players to either stand or sit on the floor during the MKX pools in 2016? That's because in 2016, Capcom released SFV with the full focus on E-Sports which caused the game to get very bad reputation from the start, and MKX, which was already very well-received, was getting even more praise for not only being more E-Sports viable then any MK game before but also had from it's start in 2015 everything that SFV didn't had. So EVO, an event that is mainly all around Street Fighter, were like: "We can't let NRS/WB make our main game to look that bad and put the American-all-content-inclusive aspect on par with the E-Sports aspect that we and the Japanese companies have set, so we gotta do something to discourage players from playing MKX".

And how is it that in 2017, IJ2, a game that has no gore or mature content in it like MKX, doesn't get a Sunday spot despite the game also being very successful and also being the newest game of that year by comparison to other games that made it to Sunday? Same reasons.

I will give EVO and Capcom credit though, they at least took MVC:I out of the EVO 2018 main stage because they realized it's not worth putting it in while keeping IJ2 in it, and MKX did make it to Sunday in both 2015 and 16, so the are not completely biased. However, if the mature content was the whole reason why this happened, they would've at least put a better arrangement for the players for MKX in 2016, and give IJ2 a Sunday spot at least in 2017. The whole mature content might be, at best, an excuse to cover their assess.

MK11, when it comes out, can help EVO a lot in terms of financial income, it's just doesn't suite the agenda of both EVO and Capcom.
 
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Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
MK11, when it comes out, can help EVO a lot in terms of financial income, it's just doesn't suite the agenda of both EVO and Capcom.
yeah.. we just disagree on this. So this will be my last comment on this subject.. but IMO, the above is just completely untrue, there is just business. Capcom took backstage to Arc for example this year, dumping one of their flagship products completely and replacing it with a direct rival for that game type as well as having more Arc games in total and on centre stage than ever. The idea that there is a bias or some kind of agenda is just nonsense, imo.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
yeah.. we just disagree on this. So this will be my last comment on this subject.. but IMO, the above is just completely untrue, there is just business. Capcom took backstage to Arc for example this year, dumping one of their flagship products completely and replacing it with a direct rival for that game type as well as having more Arc games in total and on centre stage than ever. The idea that there is a bias or some kind of agenda is just nonsense, imo.
So I will give my last comment on the matter:

I myself just said that EVO took out this year, and that MKX still made it to EVO on Sunday in both of it's 2 years, so I acknowledged that EVO and Capcom weren't totally bias and they did some right things. However, that doesn't excuse the other cases of mistreatment I've just mentioned, and there is no way it could've been a coincidence, all things considered.

I will leave it at that.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Well, I just completely disagree with you on this. I think we just have to stand on each side of the isle on this one.

The idea that a commercial enterprise makes stands like this on bias seams ridiculous to me. Businesses are many things, but they are not pretentious. MK is not "ignored" out of bias or due to CapCom's influence. It is because it dose not make as much money. The resources they spend on it, do not get the same return, and much of that is due to advertising and sponsors and also about the kind of demographics that make the most money. There is a reason the VPs steeped in and turned Vemon movie into a PG film from the R Rated cut.. If MK made more money, it would get more exposure at evo and be more prominent. It really is that simple.
EVO is still being run very much like an Old Boys Club. Despite the amount of money going into and out of it, it’s still very much just a bigger, fancier version of what it always was... A big party thrown every year by the Capcom community and FGC elite to showcase their games, while bringing some other titles along for the ride.

Corporate America this is not, and biases are definitely in full effect.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
Seems like the issue is less YouTube vs Red Dead Redemption 2, and more about the guys specific account and/or content in this case.

I don't think YouTube handled it well, but I think the video should have been removed, and he should have received a warning. Videogames, and especially violent videogames, always occupy a grey area when trying to determine what content should be considered inappropriate or not. However, in this case it seems like the content was directly targeting a person or group of people in a specific attempt to harrass or demean them, so I think it crosses the line and should be taken down.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
MK11 won't be affected by such things, MK is to big of franchise to be ignored.
I don't think its gonna happen either, but this logic man. You think RDR2 is an Indy game or something? lol. You think MK11 is even going to sell half as much?
 
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Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
I can't confirm, but I believe COD and Battlefield should have also been demonitized by YouTube's current policy.

It's a bigger issue than just violent videogames. Here's a solid recap: https://www.polygon.com/2018/5/10/17268102/youtube-demonetization-pewdiepie-logan-paul-casey-neistat-philip-defranco#474651251

Essentially it comes down to the struggle between Content Creators and Advertisers, with YouTube trying to play the part of referee. Certain Advertisers don't want their ads to play and be associated with content that they might find goes against their values, or more goes against their consumer's values. YouTube also wants to be careful that they're not monetizing hate speech, or incentivizing people to create inappropriate videos just to drive views. It sucks that this hurts the small creators the most, especially when most aren't doing anything wrong and are creating good content. YouTube needs to do better, but I also don't think there's any easy solution out there.
 

villainous monk

Terrible times breed terrible things, my lord.
There you go. What about COD and Battlefield?
For Gears of war 4 my friend's channel had issuses which caused many of her vids to come down. Stuff like various executions with different wepons and other things for sure got it flagged.

She had to close her account anyways due to her professional career and having it linked to her social media.