"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

[Gilbagz]

Guys some stuff I found (maybe you guys found this before me, but haven't seen this on the forums yet)

I've tested out some strings and corrected the frame data.
3,2,3 = +2
2,1 = +6
3,2 = -1

I tested this all by using Green Lanterns reversal lift and seeing what normals traded and beat it cleanly.
The biggest find is 2,1 imo. +6 is huge and the range it leaves you at is perfect for doing 2,1 again or doing b+1,3. Probably can back dash follow ups but it looks like 2,1 is going to be my go to pressure string if I know my ji2 is going to be blocked.

 

[laudanum09]

Very nice. If you've got bar and need the damage and aren't sure if your jump in will be blocked, maybe the meter burn wall bounce/ground bounce will be worth it since you can hit confirm or continue pressure if 2,1 is blocked. Joker builds meter so fast two bars for damage seems worth it.

 

[Gilbagz]

Very nice. If you've got bar and need the damage and aren't sure if your jump in will be blocked, maybe the meter burn wall bounce/ground bounce will be worth it since you can hit confirm or continue pressure if 2,1 is blocked. Joker builds meter so fast two bars for damage seems worth it.

Nice yeah since Joker doesn't get any hit confirms unless its off 1,1 (doesn't work against bigger characters) we may have to resort to using that to maintain momentum. But 1,1,3 is still a very good option, doesn't have the same advantage but still leaves you at +1.
Going to have to see how important meter is for joker though as the game develops.

Also i'm not sure if xx into ex b+3 links off 2,1. I don't think it does. I'm pretty sure it follows the same rules as the RLG. ( Could be completely wrong about this. Basing it off combo vids I saw before that werent actually combos.)

Need to practice the hitconfirm off ji2. Its hard as hell but I still think its possible if you're super super concentrated.

Have you noticed that stupid glitch where they clash the first hit of the rlg, you mb after and still lose the meter. Fair enough if they clash the explosion, but they clash the tank but because you precomit to the mb, you lose the meter still...

 

[AceOfKnaves]

Have you noticed that stupid glitch where they clash the first hit of the rlg, you mb after and still lose the meter. Fair enough if they clash the explosion, but they clash the tank but because you precomit to the mb, you lose the meter still...

I've noticed this a few times as well. It's annoying...

 

[Cat]

okay got it to work, that is really strange. Good for us though!

yeah you have to input the hits while you still in the air..
you can also do j2 into 3 and it has to be blocked cus you do it in the air..

its weird .. cus you can do j2 and input a teeth right away.. while you still in the air.. and when he lands he will do the teeth on his own from the input you did in the air..

 

[Cat]

Guys some stuff I found (maybe you guys found this before me, but haven't seen this on the forums yet)

I've tested out some strings and corrected the frame data.
3,2,3 = +2
2,1 = +6
3,2 = -1

I tested this all by using Green Lanterns reversal lift and seeing what normals traded and beat it cleanly.
The biggest find is 2,1 imo. +6 is huge and the range it leaves you at is perfect for doing 2,1 again or doing b+1,3. Probably can back dash follow ups but it looks like 2,1 is going to be my go to pressure string if I know my ji2 is going to be blocked.

wow i knew 323 had to be plus or at least 0 since d1s couldnt beat it on block even though the game says its -42 ( thats because it calculates from the first hit, and this move has multiple stabs that the game is counting as being negative on block.)

but i didnt know 2,1 was so positive.. just tested it myself by putting the opponent in the corner.. recording joker doing the string and mashing d1 right after... then i played back.. and after blocking the string doing d1 myself and got beat out by joker every time..

good find!!! ill have to work on some stuff...

another thing thats neat for ppl who like to counter poke d1 after a string..
if you do b1 and they block it and try to d1 right after.. the push back leaves you at perfect range to wiff punish most d1s with f2,3, mb low tank (does not work on grundy, dooms, and bane though)

 

[Gilbagz]

wow i knew 323 had to be plus or at least 0 since d1s couldnt beat it on block even though the game says its -42 ( thats because it calculates from the first hit, and this move has multiple stabs that the game is counting as being negative on block.)

but i didnt know 2,1 was so positive.. just tested it myself by putting the opponent in the corner.. recording joker doing the string and mashing d1 right after... then i played back.. and after blocking the string doing d1 myself and got beat out by joker every time..

good find!!! ill have to work on some stuff...

another thing thats neat for ppl who like to counter poke d1 after a string..
if you do b1 and they block it and try to d1 right after.. the push back leaves you at perfect range to wiff punish most d1s with f2,3, mb low tank (does not work on grundy, dooms, and bane though)

One other thing I forgot to add.
Maybe my idea of frame data is incorrect but from my testings, f+2,3,2 is -3 not -4.
But f+2,3,2 is not a a multihitting move which does not make sense.
If it was -4, my d+1 should trade with GL's 10 frame lift, but Joker's 6 frame d+1 (10 frames since f+2,3,2 'is' -4) managed to beat it cleanly, which leads me to think its -3.

Am I correct or is my understanding of frame data just off?

 

[Cat]

One other thing I forgot to add.
Maybe my idea of frame data is incorrect but from my testings, f+2,3,2 is -3 not -4.
But f+2,3,2 is not a a multihitting move which does not make sense.
If it was -4, my d+1 should trade with GL's 10 frame lift, but Joker's 6 frame d+1 (10 frames since f+2,3,2 'is' -4) managed to beat it cleanly, which leads me to think its -3.

Am I correct or is my understanding of frame data just off?

let met test it out..
also i think 21 is more like +5 or +4 ... ill have to test it more

 

[Gilbagz]

let met test it out..
also i think 21 is more like +5 or +4 ... ill have to test it more

To test 2,1. I put Green Lantern onto reversal mode.
Assuming there is no bug with the training mode, lift still comes out at 10 frames.
I was able to beat lift using Joker's standing 3. It traded a few times, but I was able to beat it cleanly when I timed it correctly.
Standing 3 is 15 frames, and as I was able to beat lift, I assumed 2,1 had to be +6 for standing 3 to become 9 frames.

 

[Cat]

To test 2,1. I put Green Lantern onto reversal mode.
Assuming there is no bug with the training mode, lift still comes out at 10 frames.
I was able to beat lift using Joker's standing 3. It traded a few times, but I was able to beat it cleanly when I timed it correctly.
Standing 3 is 15 frames, and as I was able to beat lift, I assumed 2,1 had to be +6 for standing 3 to become 9 frames.

well i just tested jokers f232 vs lantern.. by choosing GL and using Joker as the opponent.. put lantern in the corner by going to practice option and setting the starting point to left.. then went to AI options and went to the record tab.. i recorded joker doing the string.. then mashed on d1 after.. then i hit play back (which gives me control of GL again) and blocked the string and did lanterns life right after.. and it seems to trade for the most part.. but jokers wins sometimes if i dont do the life right on time..

idk about the ai reversal move having a bug or anything.. i just test my stuff this way instead since i have more control and can test out strings.

 

[Gilbagz]

well i just tested jokers f232 vs lantern.. by choosing GL and using Joker as the opponent.. put lantern in the corner by going to practice option and setting the starting point to left.. then went to AI options and went to the record tab.. i recorded joker doing the string.. then mashed on d1 after.. then i hit play back (which gives me control of GL again) and blocked the string and did lanterns life right after.. and it seems to trade for the most part.. but jokers wins sometimes if i dont do the life right on time..

idk about the ai reversal move having a bug or anything.. i just test my stuff this way instead since i have more control and can test out strings.

True it does provide more control, the thing I don't like is the d+1 mashing though. Can never get stuff to the frame when I try it.
Assuming reversals are accurate the frame data should be correct (also assuming lift does come out at 10 frames)

May end up using your way to test though just so I can make sure the reversals are right.

 

[Cat]

True it does provide more control, the thing I don't like is the d+1 mashing though. Can never get stuff to the frame when I try it.
Assuming reversals are accurate the frame data should be correct (also assuming lift does come out at 10 frames)

May end up using your way to test though just so I can make sure the reversals are right.

yeah its best.. the only thing that may be not so consistent is getting the hits after the 21 to come out as fast as possible after the block.. since the player 1 is not blocking.. being able to do the 3 right after the 21 hits (without getting the full 213 string) is kind of hard..
so maybe my method may be at fault at that since idk if it affects the timing..

best way for me to test it. is when my friends come over later today and do it vs them..

but testing it my way.. doing 21 and d1 right after in the corner.. should not let me jump out (since if its +6, the d1 of joker thats 6 frames must be blocked) but it does let me jump out.. so it might be the thing i just spoke off about not getting the string out in time since during recording its hitting and when i playback im blocking it..

 

[Gilbagz]

yeah its best.. the only thing that may be not so consistent is getting the hits after the 21 to come out as fast as possible after the block.. since the player 1 is not blocking.. being able to do the 3 right after the 21 hits (without getting the full 213 string) is kind of hard..
so maybe my method may be at fault at that since idk if it affects the timing..

best way for me to test it. is when my friends come over later today and do it vs them..

but testing it my way.. doing 21 and d1 right after in the corner.. should not let me jump out (since if its +6, the d1 of joker thats 6 frames must be blocked) but it does let me jump out.. so it might be the thing i just spoke off about not getting the string out in time since during recording its hitting and when i playback im blocking it..

Oh yeah could be that. I remember Cage's f+3. Recovery is diff on block and hit so maybe its the same thing here (if anything 2,1 should be more + on hit though lol, but I guess it screws with the timing)

I'll try do some more experimenting here on my end once my brother gets home.

Let you know how it goes.

 

[Cat]

Oh yeah could be that. I remember Cage's f+3. Recovery is diff on block and hit so maybe its the same thing here (if anything 2,1 should be more + on hit though lol, but I guess it screws with the timing)

I'll try do some more experimenting here on my end once my brother gets home.

Let you know how it goes.

yeah well it only hits when i record.. once i hit play back i block the hits with my char and counter.. but like i said.. the difference of the d1 coming out after the 21 in record mode may effect how it comes out when i playback and block the 21 instead of getting hit... but yeah testing with a human is always best

 

[Cat]

Oh yeah could be that. I remember Cage's f+3. Recovery is diff on block and hit so maybe its the same thing here (if anything 2,1 should be more + on hit though lol, but I guess it screws with the timing)

I'll try do some more experimenting here on my end once my brother gets home.

Let you know how it goes.

you do have the latest patch right?
i just tested it your way with setting GL to reversal lift.. and hes beating me out of 3 everytime

EDIT. i actually got it to beat him out and trade a few times.. you might be right .lol

 

[Gilbagz]

you do have the latest patch right?
i just tested it your way with setting GL to reversal lift.. and hes beating me out of 3 everytime

Yeah I do. The timing is super super strict. But I can do it.
I'll record a vid and post it up.
Do you play on ps3 or xbox?
Could make the diff considering there were xbox specific kenshi combos

 

[Cat]

Yeah I do. The timing is super super strict. But I can do it.
I'll record a vid and post it up.
Do you play on ps3 or xbox?
Could make the diff considering there were xbox specific kenshi combos

yeah i got it to hit and trade a few times.. very strict timing.. i edited my post before you replied.. lol also tested it with jokers acid blossom reversal since its also 10 frames and its been trading for the most part.

reason i say its most like +5
is because the game counts the block advantage from the start up of the move not after the last hit connects (since 2,1 is technically a 3 hit move)
game has the 1 part of the 21 string as 14 frames start up.. and -9 block advantage.. since it begins from the first hit of the 1 in the 21 string (because the 2 part has a frame data of its own )
then ...
14 frames start up
+
-9 block advantage
=
+5

i have both systems.. i was testing the advantage on both... and its pretty consistent..

the best part of the string.. is that it allows you to grab them from the range still.. so its great, because if your opponent knows your at advantage after getting beat up a few times for mashing after.. lol. he will start blocking and respecting it. and thats when grabs can mess them up

 

[Gilbagz]

yeah i got it to hit and trade a few times.. very strict timing.. i edited my post before you replied.. lol also tested it with jokers acid blossom reversal since its also 10 frames and its been trading for the most part.

reason i say its most like +5
is because the game counts the block advantage from the start up of the move not after the last hit connects (since 2,1 is technically a 3 hit move)
game has the 1 part of the 21 string as 14 frames start up.. and -9 block advantage.. since it begins from the first hit of the 1 in the 21 string (because the 2 part has a frame data of its own )
then ...
14 frames start up
+
-9 block advantage
=
+5

i have both systems.. i was testing the advantage on both... and its pretty consistent..

the best part of the string.. is that it allows you to grab them from the range still.. so its great, because if your opponent knows your at advantage after getting beat up a few times for mashing after.. lol. he will start blocking and respecting it. and thats when grabs can mess them up

Lol alright cool that makes sense then. Just tested again as well.
Timing is mega strict but its possible.

Also retested f+3,2,3. It should be -4 based on what you said. I forgot to test it thoroughly yesterday. The only thing that I can beat lift with after f+3,2,3 is d+1.

So many options off 2,1 on block. Probably going to be using off blocked ji2's a lot now. Kinda sucks how it has no combo potential off of it beside the 2,1,2 into flower/gunshot. (Unless mb b+3/f+3 links)

 

[Cat]

Lol alright cool that makes sense then. Just tested again as well.
Timing is mega strict but its possible.

Also retested f+3,2,3. It should be -4 based on what you said. I forgot to test it thoroughly yesterday. The only thing that I can beat lift with after f+3,2,3 is d+1.

So many options off 2,1 on block. Probably going to be using off blocked ji2's a lot now. Kinda sucks how it has no combo potential off of it beside the 2,1,2 into flower/gunshot. (Unless mb b+3/f+3 links)

yeah soooo many options now.. off a blocked 21 you can even go for a teeth set up.. since d1s are too pushed back midscreen to punish you.and most normals wont reach (i tried doing joker f3 to punish the joker doing 21 into teeth. but i was able to block after the teet)

and yeah.. just tested it.. you can do 21 string and let the full 3 hits hit and do a b3 mb (2 bars though) and it combos.. so i guess if you need it use it.. meter is built fast anyways..

 

[Gilbagz]

yeah soooo many options now.. off a blocked 21 you can even go for a teeth set up.. since d1s are too pushed back midscreen to punish you.and most normals wont reach (i tried doing joker f3 to punish the joker doing 21 into teeth. but i was able to block after the teet)

and yeah.. just tested it.. you can do 21 string and let the full 3 hits hit and do a b3 mb (2 bars though) and it combos.. so i guess if you need it use it.. meter is built fast anyways..

Oh wow, hit confirmable, plus on block and places at you at the perfect distance.
Going to have heaps of fun using this string now lol.

 

[Cat]

Oh wow, hit confirmable, plus on block and places at you at the perfect distance.
Going to have heaps of fun using this string now lol.

yeah if you want to save meter just do flower or something or crowbar if you want a knockdown..
but if you can go for the kill and have the 2 bars why not go for it!
its so easy to hit confirm.and if its block you got advantage for grabs, strings, b1 low, overheads..etc..even b3mb or f3mb after its blocked ..lol
just tested another thing as well.. if they try to d1 you can do a b2 (tank overhead) and it wiff punishes the d1s.. looks awesome . haha and if its blocked its only -1 on block .. lol

so far i got 38 with j2, 21, b3mb, j3, 32 (let the second hit of the 2 part hit) into flower blossom.

the j3 into 32 is easy to do off this , unlike off the low tank mb, probably since you dont add that bounce in the beggining..
just wait a bit to do the j3 and do the 32 after.. i got it very consitantely

lol well off to bed for me.. its 6am now.. lol ill be messing with him more later thanks for the heads up on21

 

[laudanum09]

Hey guys, great lab work with the frame data. Joker is a frame trap monster? Yes. I love making people suffer for pushing buttons. Reminds me of light scissor kicks as Dictator in SSF4AE lol.

Also, j2, 3,2 mb b3, ji.2, 3,2 xx flower is 40% I'm pretty sure so there's that option as well if you want to spend the two bars.

I personally think two bars is nothing. You'll make part of that back on the combo and the rest of it soon enough. Joker seems to always have bar to waste.

 

[Saint Connor]

"WHAT, YOU'RE GAME MUST BE GLITCHED CAUSE I AM UNBEATABLE ONLINE WITH MY DEATHSTROKE!"

Lost at this line, lol.

 

[Cat]

Hey guys, great lab work with the frame data. Joker is a frame trap monster? Yes. I love making people suffer for pushing buttons. Reminds me of light scissor kicks as Dictator in SSF4AE lol.

Also, j2, 3,2 mb b3, ji.2, 3,2 xx flower is 40% I'm pretty sure so there's that option as well if you want to spend the two bars.

I personally think two bars is nothing. You'll make part of that back on the combo and the rest of it soon enough. Joker seems to always have bar to waste.

yeah i know 32 mb is more damage.. but were going off 21 since its the go to string on jump in since it has great advantage...

and your right. 2 meters is nothing if it gets you the win.

 

[laudanum09]

yeah i know 32 mb is more damage.. but were going off 21 since its the go to string on jump in since it has great advantage...

and your right. 2 meters is nothing if it gets you the win.

just saying since 3,2 was mentioned as well. I'm assuming it will be more character specific wheres 2,1 will be universal as in 3,2 serving the same purpose as 2,1 in certain matchups where reversals aren't as big of a worry as opposed to green lantern where 2,1 will be staple as a pressure string/hit confirm.

Also, this should be our new bnb. swag as hell, not too tough and boosts our damage off 1 meter. 49% for a bar? I'm assuming around the same ballpark for a 2,1 hit confirm into meter burn? A little less off a 1,1 hit confirm? Whatever way we start it, we're guaranteed more damage and more meter off hitting so many specials.

at 9:48