"You're Fired!" -- Joker General Discussion Thread

[Qwark28]

Qwark28, two questions:

1. Are you certain that you are getting d2 xx crowbar in the OTG window most of the time, or have your opponents stopped trying to wakeup and it's hard to tell?
2. Do the opponents that cannot block d2 xx crowbar also fail to block b13, or do you do what I was saying earlier where you see if they are able to block b13 and only then switch to using d2 xx crowbar?

I ask because Ron seems pretty confident that the block window is similar between the two (d2 crowbar and b13, followed by the teeth popping), so I just wanted to clarify a bit.
Either way, I'll test it for myself sometime in the next few days.

It does OTG.

I don't try teeth into b13 or d2 into crowbar unless they can always poke or jump through b1 teeth b13.

 

[Gilbagz]

Most people still struggle at blocking b13 properly, so all of this is basically backup options once they prove themselves able to block. And even if they do manage to block, we're at advantage and they're sitting in the corner. Still plenty of options.

Actually steve, if people manage to block b1,3 and the teeth joker is actually punishable. The block stun from teeth isnt enough to cover the recovery of the overhead in b1,3

 

[Qwark28]

Actually steve, if people manage to block b1,3 and the teeth joker is actually punishable. The block stun from teeth isnt enough to cover the recovery of the overhead in b1,3

He can't be punished, just tested it myself.

 

[Gilbagz]

He can't be punished, just tested it myself.

You sure about this
Hitting the hard to blockable timing with the overhead getting blocked before the teeth. Because i have been punished for this, more than once.

 

[Qwark28]

You sure about this
Hitting the hard to blockable timing with the overhead getting blocked before the teeth. Because i have been punished for this, more than once.

Yeah, reversal flying uppercut doesn't punish it.

 

[Gilbagz]

Yeah, reversal flying uppercut doesn't punish it.

Just tested
Punished using jokers b1,3
Window is tight
Can consistently punished using d1
Can also punish using but needs to be timed as joker stands up

The closer it is to unblockable
The more punishable it is on block

 

[Qwark28]

Just tested
Punished using jokers b1,3
Window is tight
Can consistently punished using d1
Can also punish using but needs to be timed as joker stands up

The closer it is to unblockable
The more punishable it is on block

But I just used the uppercut as a reversal and it was blocked. I'm doing fastest possible cancel into teeth then B13

 

[Gilbagz]

But I just used the uppercut as a reversal and it was blocked. I'm doing fastest possible cancel into teeth then B13

What set up you using?

And i just tested uppercut
It punishes every time.

 

[Qwark28]

What set up you using?

Basic crowbar teeth b13

 

[Gilbagz]

Basic crowbar teeth b13

Its hard to test that properly cuz there is a reversal window between b1,3. But it shouldnt have any effect.
Just so teeth and time an unblock b1,3. From range the reversal shouldnt come out till after teeth and it should punish easily.

 

[Qwark28]

Its hard to test that properly cuz there is a reversal window between b1,3. But it shouldnt have any effect.
Just so teeth and time an unblock b1,3. From range the reversal shouldnt come out till after teeth and it should punish easily.

I'm doing this manually

 

[OnlineRon91]

These are all hard to blockables, silly name Stevo, silly name. The Joker determines how the opponent should time their blocking because he can more or less dictate when he wants the Teeth to detonate by delaying his OTG. So we can debate about which setup is hardest to block but from what I've tested, it is largely dependent on how much the OTG is being delayed by.

Here is the damage breakdown of the OTG setups involving Chattering Teeth -

b13, Teeth detonate, 32 xx Crowbar (32 - 36%)
b1 xx Crowbar, Teeth detonate (16 - 21%)
d2 xx Crowbar, Teeth detonate (11 - 14%) ~ Ending in regular Crowbar results in the opponent leaving the corner, dumb bug.~

 

[Qwark28]

d2 xx Crowbar, Teeth detonate (11 - 14%) ~ Ending in regular Crowbar results in the opponent leaving the corner, dumb bug.~

Depends on how they block.

 

[OnlineRon91]

Joker's backdash so gewd he can block b1 then backdash to avoid 3 and the teeth and punish. anti-joker tech using joker baby ...

 

[Gilbagz]

I'm doing this manually

Lol idk
You just need to time the b1,3 properly
It is very much punishable when using the b1,3 with the hard to blockable timing.

 

[Fromundaman]

Hey anyone have the livestream link for that Greek tournament? Pretty sure it's starting now but it's not in the stickied thread.


EDIT: NM found it. Here it is for anyone else interested: TWITCH.TV/ZAELOCK

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Was just about to post that for you. When is Qwark's pool?
EDIT: Looks like now?

 

[StevoSuprem0]

LOL Why is that Batman not just zoning him out with the life lead. God damn.

 

[Fromundaman]

LOL Why is that Batman not just zoning him out with the life lead. God damn.

I'm always surprised (but pleasantly so) when I see Batman players NOT zoning Jokers. It makes the MU playable XD

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Who/what did Qwark lose to?
And how many matches of his were streamed? I only saw the Batman.

 

[Fangoria19]

So I've been messing around with some joker midscreen shenanigans and I started using mb back/forward 3 to get the opponent to block into a 50/50 back 1, crowbar or jump crossover, does any other joker player think this is worth using to open people up midscreen? Its seems pretty effective against wakeups.

 

[Qwark28]

So I've been messing around with some joker midscreen shenanigans and I started using mb back/forward 3 to get the opponent to block into a 50/50 back 1, crowbar or jump crossover, does any other joker player think this is worth using to open people up midscreen? Its seems pretty effective against wakeups.

Yes, we have an entire thread to the OTG where you can see almost everything you can do out of crowbar otg.

 

[Fangoria19]

Yes, we have an entire thread to the OTG where you can see almost everything you can do out of crowbar otg.

Yeah I do the otg mixups off the mb crowbar but I try to use the mb wall bounce to stand them back up after a sweep or jump 3 where the otg really doesn't apply, but if this is not a new thing then I'll shut up lol I just don't see jokers really use it.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Fangoria19, I think Qwark thought you were talking about the bf3 special rather than b3 and f3.
Mb b3 and f3 are good anti-wakeup tech, and give us 6 frames of advantage on block. That's plenty for a b1, but a cross up jump is probably gonna be react able on a high level of play with a d2, especially once the opponent sees it a few times. I'm not positive about the spacing, but an instant j2 might work, and can be comboed into 11 mb rlg for a combo. You can also go into the 212 xx teeth frame trap, but some of the cast can just frame d1 you to stuff it. And d2 is fast enough to catch them, and can be made safe with flower or.crowbar
Either way, it's still pretty solid pressure and there's plenty that can be done.

 

[Qwark28]

Fangoria19, I think warm thought you were talking about the bf3 special rather than b3 and f3.
Mb b3 and f3 are good anti-wakeup tech, and give us 6 frames of advantage on block. That's plenty for a b1, but a cross up jump is probably gonna be react able on a high level of play with a d2, especially once the opponent sees it a few times. I'm not positive about the spacing, but an instant j2 might work, and can be comboed into 11 mb rlg for a combo. You can also go into the 212 xx teeth frame trap, but some of the cast can just frame d1 you to stuff it. And d2 is fast enough to catch them, and can be made safe with flower or.crowbar
Either way, it's still pretty solid pressure and there's plenty that can be done.

D2 crowbar can be backdashed/MB B3d on reaction.

I've already taught this to 2 of our guys here and I will be in the unfortunate position of showing them all.