Your Injustice 2 Hopes After this Latest MKXL Patch

[Addhad]

What mix up does kitana have that everyone is crying about now?

She has a overhead combo starter or something now?

Get off paragon and play mk to find out ya KALLARI main

 

[Addhad]

Some way to full combo punish grabs on a hard read. You can't duck grabs bc it's obvious so Idk oh and no corner rape no one likes it. Crystal gm hunter summoner sorcerer

 

[Meep8345]

Came to discuss Injustice 2. Only hear and see more butthurt about Kitana.

Listen scrubs: Poke, armor, or backlash. See! Kitana is back to be ass again

f112 dp ex float jip2 jails unless there's something I'm not doing because AI can't backdash or armor so seems pretty dumb to me

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

I think characters regulating each other fundamentally was just a result of the decision on NRS' part to have such defined archetypes for their characters for the first time. I hope with inj1 to build on they can alleviate some of it though

I hated half the cast with Grundy, lol

Just toning down grab immunity across the board would've solved most of those problems. I do agree though that having a few matchups as bad as Hawkgirl/Grundy and Zod/Lex is where they failed in their attempt at providing such gameplay diversity for the first time with Injustice.

BUT, I'd much rather have that and they patch the game to give a Lex-type some way to circumvent a Zod than they just remove all instant-air projectiles across the board. That's the main point of my initial post here: NRS needs to build on what they started with that game rather than follow the bad homogenizing trends they've started with this one.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

Get off paragon and play mk to find out ya KALLARI main

Working on that master skin tho :/

 

[ChatterBox]

f112 dp ex float jip2 jails unless there's something I'm not doing because AI can't backdash or armor so seems pretty dumb to me

Have the computer crouch block, then it can backdash.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

My bad, I should've included a TL;DR for the children. This has literally nothing to do with how good or bad any character is and everything to do with the complete lack of gameplay identity in this cast that has only gotten worse with this latest patch.

NRS has given up on trying to balance zoners vs grapplers vs rushdown, etc. and instead decided a better solution would be to give everyone everything. You can't tell me that anyone looking for a Zangief or a Grundy can find that same experience in this game, partially because slapping a command grab or two on a character who shares 95% of a moveset with two other variations that aren't grapplers at all and calling it Wrestler doesn't suddenly make that variation a grappler either, and partially because they're giving out command grabs to everyone else for free too on top of that shit.

They're all over the place with the gameplay design in this game compared to their last one and their one-size-fits-all approach to the latest patch only further hurts the gameplay diversity. I don't give one single shit how good or bad Kitana is in this game, I just want to be able to play an actual grappler in the next one.

Maybe I should have clarified my post and explained more in depth why I made the statement I did, because children seem to have a hard time understanding conceptualization behind character design.

First of all comparing Grundy to Gief is a bad comparison, if anything Grundy is more like modern day Birdie from SFV. Bullies his way in with armor to make u fear his approach and uses that fear to begin his command grab game. If anything, Bane would be closest to gief IMO and even still that's a stretch.

Also calling Zod a 100% zoner and complaining about kitana because she has a little bit of pressure is backwards as hell. Zod had ridiculous mix up game and damage as well as full screen unblockable and tick throw set ups. If anything Zod is comparable to Kitana.

Placing characters into an archetype is something I don't believe NRS follows, which I can agree with you there, but I do believe their characters are well balanced for the play styles they want to present, if you don't see that then IDK what to tell you. I think this is just more of an Injustice vs MK type of thing for you.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Maybe I should have clarified my post and explained more in depth why I made the statement I did, because children seem to have a hard time understanding conceptualization behind character design.

First of all comparing Grundy to Gief is a bad comparison, if anything Grundy is more like modern day Birdie from SFV. Bullies his way in with armor to make u fear his approach and uses that fear to begin his command grab game. If anything, Bane would be closest to gief IMO and even still that's a stretch.

Also calling Zod a 100% zoner and complaining about kitana because she has a little bit of pressure is backwards as hell. Zod had ridiculous mix up game and damage as well as full screen unblockable and tick throw set ups. If anything Zod is comparable to Kitana.

Placing characters into an archetype is something I don't believe NRS follows, which I can agree with you there, but I do believe their characters are well balanced for the play styles they want to present, if you don't see that then IDK what to tell you. I think this is just more of an Injustice vs MK type of thing for you.

I wasn't trying to compare them on a character-to-character basis but give examples of how their gameplay style is more defined under the same archetype even with their different tools and approaches than anything you can find in this game. If you don't think NRS finally tried their hand at nailing different archetypes in Injustice and actually succeeded in a lot of ways but regressed with MKX then let's just agree to disagree.

Fact of the matter is that despite their individual uniqueness, when I'm playing characters like T. Hawk, Grundy, Alex, etc. I always feel like I'm playing a grappler and this game does not provide that. The variation system homogenizes move-sets to begin with and now that aspect of this game is worse than ever because their answer to tools that are too powerful in the hands of some is to remove them from all. If their newfound sweeping design philosophy is to stop looking at tools contextually on a character to character basis (i.e. EX Tail Flip on Alien =/= EX Rising Karma on Balanced Kenshi) and just wipe them across the board instead, there may be reason for those of us who care about gameplay diversity to be concerned about their next game. That's all, dude.

 

[Rozalin1780]

She has an 18 frame overhead now, which coincidentally the Kitana players seem to forget to be mentioning

And coincidently, people who mention her 18 frame overhead seem to forget that it causes a knockdown and leads to nothing, not to mention that it cannot be used in conjunction with F112xDPxfloatxjip without spending a bar first. When did 12% for one bar become fantastic?

I know, I know, off topic yadda yadda. But let's be real: the OP wasn't truly to discuss IJ2 anyway.

 

[KidVanDal]

What mix up does kitana have that everyone is crying about now?

She has a overhead combo starter or something now?

She has a meter depending block string which makes her a pressure god, pls lord paulo help us!

 

[KidVanDal]

f112 dp ex float jip2 jails unless there's something I'm not doing because AI can't backdash or armor so seems pretty dumb to me

Also this post is ... nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope...

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

And coincidently, people who mention her 18 frame overhead seem to forget that it causes a knockdown and leads to nothing, not to mention that it cannot be used in conjunction with F112xDPxfloatxjip without spending a bar first. When did 12% for one bar become fantastic?

I know, I know, off topic yadda yadda. But let's be real: the OP wasn't truly to discuss IJ2 anyway.

Holy fucking shit it's so sad it's almost funny how defensive you Kitana players are at any mention of her whatsoever on these forums. I literally use her and Cryo just as examples of how gameplay design is getting more and more muddied throughout the span of this game's life and only one of those two characters' communities jumps down my throat about how to deal with her in matches as if that has anything to do with anything at all lolol.

 

[Baconlord]

I feel like this is just an mkxl complaint thread disguised as a hopeful injustice 2 thread so mods don't close it

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

I feel like this is just an mkxl complaint thread disguised as a hopeful injustice 2 thread so mods don't close it

How dastardly! What more devious way to disguise my concern about the path NRS's gameplay design philosophy is heading down with this latest MKXL patch than to write paragraph after paragraph about it!

I'll say it again: NRS deciding that either everyone gets one type of tool or nobody does at all is bad for gameplay diversity and concerns me moving forward into their next game. That's what this patch has me thinking of and worrying about heading into injustice 2. Yes that is a complaint about MKXL and yes it is also a concern about the sequel to Injustice retaining the original's uniqueness. What is so difficult to comprehend here?

 

[Rozalin1780]

Holy fucking shit it's so sad it's almost funny how defensive you Kitana players are at any mention of her whatsoever on these forums. I literally use her and Cryo just as examples of how gameplay design is getting more and more muddied throughout the span of this game's life and only one of those two characters' communities jumps down my throat about how to deal with her in matches as if that has anything to do with anything at all lolol.

I'm not being defensive, just calling a spade a spade. In fact I too think she's a bit much right now and have said as such.

The fact is, in your five paragraph OP only had four SENTENCES, had anything to do with Injustice. The rest was basically a rant about how flawed MKX is, and how you can't find a character that plays like a specific archetype from other fighting games as if A: every fighting game is fundamentally the same and B: such archetypes must exist in order for the game to be good.

 

[RNLDRGN]

As someone who LOVED IGAU1, really enjoys Street Fighter, and tolerates MK.... here's my 2 cents:

1. Stand vs Crouch Command Grabs. Plz no Shazam high/low grabs where he puts himself in a mixup every time he wants to command grab lol. I can't count how many times I would work to get in on an opponent, only to stand command grab a crouching opponent and be punished for it, sent back fullscreen to start all over again. Yuck.

2. Fast Overhead/Low Launchers. One of the issues in NRS games (IMO) is that they are very liberal with quick combo starters that are overhead and low. I'm okay with characters having a good OH or low, but maybe not both. The universal F3 overhead should mean that command normal overheads are less common, but we will see if that's the case. GL's B1/F3 game was ridiculous up close, but somewhat alleviated by his awful dash and floaty mobility. Batgirl and MMH on the other hand could net big damage easily from overhead or low--MMH's overhead from especially hilarious ranges.

3. Vortexes. Batgirl batgirl batgirl. Her vortex was dumb simple and incredibly powerful whereas Sinestro's was a little more manageable and reactable. If NRS wants to have a vortex character, make it a little more along the lines of Sinestro's and less Batgirl's. Maybe all vortex characters should require meter? Nah, that'd make too much sense...

4. Anti-Airs. I'd really like to see a nice range of solid D2s, DPs, and command normal anti-airs. It's so satisfying to AA someone haphazardly jumping in and I'd like to see some of them convert into solid damage.

5. Walk Speed. NRS is known for having awful walkspeeds and amazing dashes. I'd really like to see some quicker walkspeeds and more moderate dashes. There's no reason why massive tank characers (Doomsday, Grundy, Bane) should have incredible dashes and horrendous walkspeeds--it just looks weird. I'd like to see a happy medium.

6. Supers. I feel like supers were (with a few exceptions) pretty useless in IGAU1 due to how much damage players could net from a simple 1 bar combos. I'd like to see supers scale better and do at least 5-7% more damage overall--that way you have some sort of incentive to actually save your bar for a nice combo ending in super.

7. Swamp Thing

 

[SM StarGazer]

She has an 18 frame overhead now, which coincidentally the Kitana players seem to forget to be mentioning

Which does 9%. Try again

 

[CrazyFingers]

1. Grapplers have usable command grabs in neutral
2. No armored launchers
3. Stronger AA
4. Tone down mixups. Nothing like wtf Tremor in the corner.
5. Supergirl's side-switching telepunch better be a High
6. Fix Batman's purse-holding stance. Batman doesn't hold anyone's purse.
7. Make Atrocitus's napalm blood less firey and more liquidy
8. Swamp Thing

I am slowly finding who my Swamp buddies will be and this excites me ^_^

 

[CrazyFingers]

So basically what I want is for NRS to. Make. A fucking. Fighting game. Stop giving out overheads like they're candy. Stop making moves that solve every problem. Tone down set play just a teeny bit. And BAM you have yourself a fighting game that will a significant amount less dumb shit.

 

[CrazyFingers]

Which does 9%. Try again

It's still an 18f overhead that leaves her pretty plus. Don't just dismiss a move because it does no damage. Things don't need to do a shit ton of damage to be good. Take a look at pre patch Shaolin which was one of the dumbest things that for some reason no one talked about. His damage was and is ASS. Still was dumb. I'm not saying the overhead is omg op op. I'm just saying don't dismiss it because of low damage output. You eat a couple of those and it adds up.

 

[tatterbug4]

Just saying a character having a armored launcher is completely dependent on the character. What if that was his whole game plan? What if that was the strongest thing in his arsenal?

I don't care if there are armored launchers I just hope that not everyone has one.

With no variations the character is gonna be made with 1 plan and idea. Making it easier for them to balance. And making the character feel a little more specially crafted. It won't be like this is the zoning variation and this rush down variation will have the same strings.

 

[SM StarGazer]

It's still an 18f overhead that leaves her pretty plus. Don't just dismiss a move because it does no damage. Things don't need to do a shit ton of damage to be good. Take a look at pre patch Shaolin which was one of the dumbest things that for some reason no one talked about. His damage was and is ASS. Still was dumb. I'm not saying the overhead is omg op op. I'm just saying don't dismiss it because of low damage output. You eat a couple of those and it adds up.

Shaolin has shit dmg, yeah no prw-patch Mournful but he had a armor breaking move that could be mixed up for damage and position advantage. His neutral is and was some of the best, his projectile is great, one of them low profiles, he has a dive kick, can make that dive kick SAFE for a bar, has mixups, has great pressure and guessing games. Great character qhkms only flaw was damage and wake ups but guess what. It's a 50/50 on wake up as well. I vote we remove his overhead flip cause having 50/50's on wakeup is broken.

Cried no one ever

 

[CrazyFingers]

Shaolin has shit dmg, yeah no prw-patch Mournful but he had a armor breaking move that could be mixed up for damage and position advantage. His neutral is and was some of the best, his projectile is great, one of them low profiles, he has a dive kick, can make that dive kick SAFE for a bar, has mixups, has great pressure and guessing games. Great character qhkms only flaw was damage and wake ups but guess what. It's a 50/50 on wake up as well. I vote we remove his overhead flip cause having 50/50's on wakeup is broken.

Cried no one ever

So...how does repeating what I literally just said help in the argument of the overhead being bad?

 

[KrstffrMunk]

The improvement of oki in MKX has me excited for Shazam's potential return in Injustice 2.

 

[SM StarGazer]

So...how does repeating what I literally just said help in the argument of the overhead being bad?

Cause it's not. All things considered it's a great Overhead. Does it lead to full combos, mixups, armor-breaking, etc, etc. No. So let's stop acting like it's just the be-all, end-all overhead of MkX. I'd rather have sub's, jaxs, Scorpions, Johnny' s, Sonyas, Jackie, cassies, jin, kang, etc